When You Are Troubled By Something In The Church.

[hagoth7]

Study and prayer.

[Freedom]

All the issues I have with the church have to to with policies and procedures so I just gripe to my wife and do what I want. For example, we had this ridiculous directive to use a cloth on the end of a stick when washing floors. I just brought my own mop when it was my turn to clean the building. When I got in trouble I just told them to stand in line and went about my business.  When doing tithing when there was no one with a proper calling to help me, I pulled in a trusted priesthood holder and went into the MLS and turned him into a ward clerk. Presto, the system allowed him to do tithing. 

[Stargazer]

All the issues I have with the church have to to with policies and procedures so I just gripe to my wife and do what I want. For example, we had this ridiculous directive to use a cloth on the end of a stick when washing floors. I just brought my own mop when it was my turn to clean the building. When I got in trouble I just told them to stand in line and went about my business.  When doing tithing when there was no one with a proper calling to help me, I pulled in a trusted priesthood holder and went into the MLS and turned him into a ward clerk. Presto, the system allowed him to do tithing. 

 

Not any more it won't.  The system got an upgrade last year that requires those who do the donation processing be either a clerk or in the bishopric.

[Calm]

Glad I could help you out Stargazer!

Sense of humor deserves a rep...but am out so remind me later today.

[Senator]

My expectations have changed.

 

So I find myself rarely troubled about church and all things Mormon any more.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Senator

[oremites]

In a spiritual context, it's like me going to God and saying, "God, I don't understand Adam-God [or fill-in-the-blank-with-esoteric/controversial-teaching here]."  God would simply smile, put his hand on my shoulder, and say, "How is your scripture reading coming?  Fasting?  Praying?  Home teaching? ..." ad infinitum.

 

I'm with you, Kenngo.  When I'm working on removing the beam out of my own eye, I find I have much less time to be bothered by other people's motes.

 

Here's how I look at things:

1.  God knows much more than I do and not by just a little.

2.  God has an eternal perspective and mine is very limited.

3.  Some of the things I think are true, really aren't. 

 

Therefore,  God will say things and do things that, from my perspective, will be wrong, troubling, inexplicable and maybe even downright offensive.  If I found nothing troubling about God and the church, then that itself would be troubling.

[rockpond]

Can't choose just one... I typically do all of the first three.

[BlueDreams]

As a general rule to whatever issue bothers me, I have never turned to an ecclesiastical leader, ever. I don't know if it's healthy or not, I just don't naturally trust authority figures. And I don't really feel that I have authority figures in my life in a lot of ways. So it just doesn't occur to me to ask them. I don't think that them being bishop or RS pres, SP, etc, gives them any more special knowledge on any given doctrinal point than I do. I'm more likely to trust an apostle or prophet. Though I have disagreed with them as well.  

 

Most historical issues just haven't bothered me longer than a few google searches...usually if I found something I didn't know about, I'd google it a little, avoid sources that obviously have a vendetta, seek out basic summaries of said historical events and  if something still interested me after that, I'd read up some more direct sources about it. Polygamy, at some points, I found mildly interesting, but not for the doctrinal implications, but the the social issues surrounding it at that time and what it led to. 

 

Only one historical issue has actually troubled me longer than a few weeks: race and the priesthood. That one has been a process that's changed over the years. Since most of the sources on the web were anti at the time that I started learning more about it, I didn't take it seriously. Until I talked a little about it with a couple of relatives. Their answers alarmed me. Which led to more reading of direct sources, timelines, summaries, analyses, etc. It also entailed learning more of the overall sociohistorical context. In there was also careful scripture reading, some pondering, I don't remember much praying at this point. And multiple changes of my own thoughts of it. It was only recently, with a very poignant scripture study (solely) and fervent prayer that the last pieces fell into place and I'm completely at peace with it. So basically, all of the above (minus leaders), over several years.

 

Most issues that have troubled me are in the here-and-now. For those, I gather varying opinions/sides to the issue, pray, listen to relevant talks and such, read scripture, study some more, and begin to formulate my own impressions and opinions based on these. When I feel it's appropriate I find outlets to share these thoughts.

 

In all of this, my guidepost had usually been what I know at my core - this is the Lord's church, warts and all. For some reason, I've never really doubted that, even when I didn't have the most strident of testimonies.  

 

With luv,

BD

[stemelbow]

I've done and tried all of the above, so I selected other.

[Guest]

Be honest!

I'd like to claim prayer... But that's probably #2 to hitting the interwebz for arguments between critics and apologists.

I answered #1, but it is not to Internet that I turn to find the truth or truth, but to the scriptures. The scriptures can inspire to eternal truths...the Internet is place to find facts, but not without order far too often and seldom if ever involves wisdom. And wisdom is where the truth and facts, give way to true understanding and dispelled doubts.

[KevinG]

A what if question for you: What will you say to the Lord if He tells you that the prophet Joseph Smith was not doing his will with regard to the practice of polygamy, and that as a consequence of wrongfully accepting it as a holy practice you cheated yourself out of greater happiness in eternity?

 

I would ask why that didn't get written into the D&C section 132?  Or when I prayed about it why I didn't get that answer.

 

You see I don't just believe what I want to believe.  I seek to obey the truth I have, and then seek to find greater light and knowledge.  D&C 93

 

Your mileage may differ, but I'm pretty comfortable with continued searching and listening to God as a safe path.

[Teancum]

Be honest!

I'd like to claim prayer... But that's probably #2 to hitting the interwebz for arguments between critics and apologists.

 

 

What if you do more than one of those?

[Teancum]

Be honest!

I'd like to claim prayer... But that's probably #2 to hitting the interwebz for arguments between critics and apologists.

 

 

Honestly I have used all four you suggest.

[carbon dioxide]

If there is an issue that bugs me and I can't find an answer to it what I find the best thing to do is set it aside and worry about other things. A number of times in my life I have figured out the answer after time has passed.  Sometimes it might be a week but it could be years.  Patience if a virtue that fewer people seem to have these days.  If they don't get the answer that need in the time frame they want, they give up or decide there is no answer.   Perhaps there is no answer and perhaps there is an answer but they might have to wait a long time to get it.  Get a testimony on the basic, fundamental parts first.  Once grounded in that, everything else will come in due time.  People just have to learn patience.

[Calm]

I answered #1, but it is not to Internet that I turn to find the truth or truth, but to the scriptures. The scriptures can inspire to eternal truths...the Internet is place to find facts, but not without order far too often and seldom if ever involves wisdom. And wisdom is where the truth and facts, give way to true understanding and dispelled doubts.

Glad to see you back again, PaPa, hope it was because life was good you were absent for a bit.

[KevinG]

What if you do more than one of those?

That's a weakness of a forced choice poll. Sorry.

[rodheadlee]

We (my wife and I) do all of the above. We start with the Scriptures then discuss it, then we have prayer. We may or may not check the internet or read other books. It's a rare problem, we thinks it's an anomaly if we are not aligned with Church doctrine and policy.

[Jeanne]

I put other because there wasn't an "all of the above"...I think the worst thing I did was go to the bishop...the second counselor fell asleep in my recliner and the RS President was not "INTO" deep doctrine.  The Bishop stood up and showed me how JS used the peep stone and the hat...didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

Studied everything i could..asked a lot of questions with an open mind.  Wanted so  bad to believe and had worked so hard to get back into the church after my husband's death.

 

it hurt terribly that even if I had answers from leadership/scriptures/FAIR whatever...they were not all the same answers but interpretations.  My other sources led me back to references in gospel doctrine..:Yes, you can keep going to church and let faith take hold; but eventually you find yourself making excuses that you would not give even to a child.

[Bobbieaware]

I put other because there wasn't an "all of the above"...I think the worst thing I did was go to the bishop...the second counselor fell asleep in my recliner and the RS President was not "INTO" deep doctrine.  The Bishop stood up and showed me how JS used the peep stone and the hat...didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

Studied everything i could..asked a lot of questions with an open mind.  Wanted so  bad to believe and had worked so hard to get back into the church after my husband's death.

 

it hurt terribly that even if I had answers from leadership/scriptures/FAIR whatever...they were not all the same answers but interpretations.  My other sources led me back to references in gospel doctrine..:Yes, you can keep going to church and let faith take hold; but eventually you find yourself making excuses that you would not give even to a child.

The Book of Mormon speaks for itself, no matter how it was produced. It is nothing less than a full-blown miracle and one day the world will know that it is. The reason why it is rejected is because "the natural man receiveth not things of God, for they are foolishness unto him." But when one has the Spirit there is no doubt but that it is the word of God. One who has a living testimony that the Book of Mormon is true couldn't care less about how it was translated because it is so full of undeniable light, power and life-changing truth.

[JLHPROF]

the second counselor fell asleep in my recliner and the RS President was not "INTO" deep doctrine.  The Bishop stood up and showed me how JS used the peep stone and the hat...didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

Wow.  Just wow.

That is so unfortunate.

[pogi]

According to D&C 9:8, before praying, we should study it out in our mind.  I think that includes doing any or all of the above before taking it to the Lord as BlueDreams demonstrated in her example with black and the priesthood.  Well done!  

[changed]

I chose prayer, and was surprised that prayer did not get the lion's share of the votes on this poll.  Really?? People trust internet answers more than prayer??? This is really sad.  The Spirit is real, there are actual answers through prayer everyone....

Edited February 22, 2015 by changed

[KevinG]

I chose prayer, and was surprised that prayer did not get the lion's share of the votes on this poll.  Really?? People trust internet answers more than prayer??? This is really sad.  The Spirit is real, there are actual answers through prayer everyone....

True. But on the heat of the moment, I tend to depend on the arm of the flesh and remember prayer as a later resort. Pride and habits are hard to overcome.

[Storm Rider]

I put other because there wasn't an "all of the above"...I think the worst thing I did was go to the bishop...the second counselor fell asleep in my recliner and the RS President was not "INTO" deep doctrine.  The Bishop stood up and showed me how JS used the peep stone and the hat...didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

Studied everything i could..asked a lot of questions with an open mind.  Wanted so  bad to believe and had worked so hard to get back into the church after my husband's death.

 

it hurt terribly that even if I had answers from leadership/scriptures/FAIR whatever...they were not all the same answers but interpretations.  My other sources led me back to references in gospel doctrine..:Yes, you can keep going to church and let faith take hold; but eventually you find yourself making excuses that you would not give even to a child.

 

I have been a student of religion for decades. During this study I have found and learned so many wonderful truths in other churches and religions; however, none have ever been able to explain so well the reason we exist as well as the restored church of Jesus Christ.  

 

I don't think I have ever made excuses for the Church or its leaders.  More importantly, I have not only taught my own children, but a host of other children about the gospel of Christ without a moment's hesitation and without any excuses.

 

I cannot explain the behavior of others any better than I can explain your behaviors, but what I can say is that the only source of guidance that I seek is from our Father in Heaven.  I really do lean on him when life is overwhelming.  I have had periods of weak faith and periods of strong faith, but he has remained a constant in my life.  

 

I have found many that want a religion that is more like a genie in a bottle or like the rotund laughing Buddha - all that is needed is to rub the bottle or the tummy and you get your wish.  No need for trials, pain, or growth just a walk through sunshine and happy trails while on earth.  This mortal existence is about far more than sunshine and fun times.  Learning takes place only through effort; the more effort we expend the more we learn.   

[Jeanne]

I have been a student of religion for decades. During this study I have found and learned so many wonderful truths in other churches and religions; however, none have ever been able to explain so well the reason we exist as well as the restored church of Jesus Christ.  

 

I don't think I have ever made excuses for the Church or its leaders.  More importantly, I have not only taught my own children, but a host of other children about the gospel of Christ without a moment's hesitation and without any excuses.

 

I cannot explain the behavior of others any better than I can explain your behaviors, but what I can say is that the only source of guidance that I seek is from our Father in Heaven.  I really do lean on him when life is overwhelming.  I have had periods of weak faith and periods of strong faith, but he has remained a constant in my life.  

 

I have found many that want a religion that is more like a genie in a bottle or like the rotund laughing Buddha - all that is needed is to rub the bottle or the tummy and you get your wish.  No need for trials, pain, or growth just a walk through sunshine and happy trails while on earth.  This mortal existence is about far more than sunshine and fun times.  Learning takes place only through effort; the more effort we expend the more we learn.   

Thank you for your thoughts and complete honesty.  I respect those who I feel are so sincere.