Who In The Church Are Paid?

[Garden Girl]

I read that the Prophet and Quorum of the 12 get compensated to live in apartments in Salt Lake tax free. I know Mission Presidents get houses and salary to support however long they serve. Does our tithing go towards our leaders living comfortably while many of us struggle to put food on the table? What other positions in the church get paid? I feel no one should be compensated and paid and every position in the church should be volunteer for free.

 

Hello VGJ... Once again a post of yours irritates me because it is ludicrous to think that "no one" should be paid and "every position" should be volunteer for free... but then I have to stop and remember that you like to start topics to stir up controversy to lead to a discussion... so you from time to time start threads that aren't even logical, then wonder why someone might "mock" you... 

 

 It seems like an apostle is a sweet gig if you get like $70,000 a year to cover your bases. That's double more than I make.

 

VGJ...  An apostleship is a "sweet gig?"  Can you be any more disrespectful of the Lord's servants?  And $70,000(?) is peanuts for the time and effort such a position requires... the endless travel, giving talks, representing the Lord in front of the world, etc etc.  This is one of the more disrespectful things I've seen you say...

 

 

 They even have money changers in the temple when you rent clothes to use in endowment sessions or for sealings. I've rented temple clothes and exchanged money and gotten change in the temple. I thought that's who Jesus drove out of the temple.

 

As an ordinance worker in the Portland temple, I would sometimes work in the baptistry... and be responsible for wheeling the bins piled high with wet clothing and towels down to the laundry, in addition to the rented clothing that must be laundered.   Do you know that this is a constant operation whenever the temple is open.  And, it has a couple of paid employees who work there as a job full time... the rest are volunteers and temple workers assigned to the laundry as part of their schedule.   That you would attempt to portray the very low cost to rent clothing to the money changers that Jesus drove from the temple is... is... (edited out... if I said what I really think, I'd be the one in trouble from the mods... but you know me well enough... I'm sure you know my opinion of your part of this whole post... ).

 

 

Thanks for clarifying. For the sometimes crazy and sarcastic image you display here, you seem very faithful and well informed with the church Nehor.

 

I quit quoting you because each of your statements was just too outlandish...

 

GG

Edited September 29, 2014 by Garden Girl

[Buzzard]

You do know that GA's get Monday off, and work the other six days of the week?  I had a job where I worked six days a week, after a year and a half, I was worn out.  I do not envy the work week that GA's have.

[Tacenda]

You do know that GA's get Monday off, and work the other six days of the week?  I had a job where I worked six days a week, after a year and a half, I was worn out.  I do not envy the work week that GA's have.

Yep, I figure they are on a life mission.  No 2 year or 3 year deal for them.  I don't have a problem with their getting compensation.  But do feel sorry for the people at the bottom somewhat if it cuts into their ability to make a living, their callings that is, like the Stake President or Bishops etc. the kind of calling that takes them away from family and maybe possibly their jobs.  But I know the church would never want to jeopardize one's ability to support their family, so that brings it back to, have at it GA's, Quorum of the 12 and the 1st Presidency.  

 

EDITED:  Kenngo doesn't understand what I mean by "have at it" ...I think it stems from my frame of mind that the leaders that are getting compensation give their lives to the church nearly.  I don't care if they get the $200,000.00 to $300,000.00 that some in the bloggernacle purport that they are getting, I don't have a problem with them getting well paid.  But if Kenngo is right and they only get say $70,000.00 I guess that's ok too, not enough, IMO.  But I'm very lame sometimes with communicating, but I'll reiterate they should get compensated for their lifelong commitment in the church, their calling never ends.  Sorry I came off so oddly, maybe Alzheimer's or being "writing challenged" is calling my name. But it's a tough one, don't know what the answer should be when thinking about the percentage that does go to Humanitarian needs.  I guess I'm a wishy washy type of gal. 

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tacenda

[Kenngo1969]

Yep, I figure they are on a life mission.  No 2 year or 3 year deal for them.  I don't have a problem with their getting compensation.  But do feel sorry for the people at the bottom somewhat if it cuts into their ability to make a living, their callings that is.  But I know the church would never want to jeopardize one's ability to support their family, so that brings it back to, have at it GA's, Quorum of the 12 and the 1st Presidency. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969]. 

What the crap is the bolded even supposed to mean.  "Have at it"?  GAs are living high on the hog on that $70K a year (if that's even what it is), is that it?  Sometimes you and others of your ilk amaze me.

[Raingirl]

I read that the $1.2 million condominium at 40 N State is home to the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and is free from property taxes. The church should release where exactly our tithings and offerings are going to not avoid confusion. I want to know where my hard earned money is headed, since I'm poor and hoping it goes towards a good cause. It could go towards the $1.2 million condo for all I know. It seems like an apostle is a sweet gig if you get like $70,000 a year to cover your bases. That's double more than I make.

Hasn't this already been covered ad nauseum in other threads here?

You actually think that your tithing money is misused somehow?

[VideoGameJunkie]

I don't think my tithing money is being misused, but I have no idea how it's being used. But I do understand we're supposed to have blind obedience and faith when it comes to money and the church. I'd be interested in knowing how my tithing and fast offerings and humanitarian aid offerings are helping.

Edited September 29, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie

[JLHPROF]

I don't think my tithing money is being misused, but I have no idea how it's being used. But I do understand we're supposed to have blind obedience and faith when it comes to money and the church. I'd be interested in knowing how my tithing and fast offerings and humanitarian aid offerings are helping.

 

It's not that we are supposed to have "blind obedience".  It's that our part of the tithing process ends when we pay it.  God requires us to sacrifice.  It used to be 100% (consecration), now it's 10% (tithing).  Either way, we sacrifice because it produces faith.

What happens to the items we turn over to the Lord's representatives is between them and God.

As far as how the Church does humanitarian work, there are huge amounts of information and examples out there.  I don't need to see it connected to my tithing.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Well there's an option on my tithing slips for humanitarian aid, general missionary, ward missionary, and fast offering besides the regular tithing. I always pay a lot to fast offering and humanitarian aid because I strongly believe in churches and people helping the poor.

Edited September 29, 2014 by VideoGameJunkie

[phaedrus ut]

Not all church leaders are wealthy business men.  President Hinckley never worked in the private sector and was life long church employee.  He served as an apostle from 1958 to 2008 highly unlikely to raise a large family like he did with just a modest stipend. We know from filings in countries that require transparency that top paid employees are compensated pretty well. The 10 highest paid employees of the church in the UK for 2012 were paid between $115,000 and $130,000.  From what I know from church employees the church is focused on hierarchy and organizational compensation.  It's reasonable to assume that the Apostles and First Presidency are the highest compensated employees in the church.  

 

The 2012 UK Financial Statements can be seen here. 

 

Phaedrus 

[cinepro]

The money changers were driven from the temple because they were exploiting temple attendees for profit. Need a change in currency (yes, most did), here we'll change it for you for a far-from-trivial markup. There is a huge difference between operating costs and exploiting worship needs for profit.

 

CFR on this. 

 

If, as you describe, the "moneychangers" were providing a service to temple worshippers, and this service was their main source of income so that in addition to their operating expenses they needed to provide food, clothing, shelter etc. for themselves and their families, what would Jesus have considered an acceptable rate of return on their service?

[cinepro]

Not all church leaders are wealthy business men.  President Hinckley never worked in the private sector and was life long church employee.  He served as an apostle from 1958 to 2008 highly unlikely to raise a large family like he did with just a modest stipend. We know from filings in countries that require transparency that top paid employees are compensated pretty well. The 10 highest paid employees of the church in the UK for 2012 were paid between $115,000 and $130,000.  From what I know from church employees the church is focused on hierarchy and organizational compensation.  It's reasonable to assume that the Apostles and First Presidency are the highest compensated employees in the church.  

 

The 2012 UK Financial Statements can be seen here. 

 

Phaedrus 

 

I have to bring this up every time the subject comes up.

 

It's important to remember that until the 1990's, Apostles typically sat on the Board of Directors for different Church-owned businesses.  So their official stipend may have been quite low, but they could presumably make a decent amount for these positions.

 

For example, in the Ed Kimball bio of President Kimball, it says:

 

 

As Church president, Spencer found himself automatically elected chairman of the board in many of the various enterprises which the Church owned or in which it had a large interest:  ZCMI department store, Zions First National Bank, Beneficial Life Insurance Company, Utah Home Fire Insurance, KSL radio and television, Utah Hotel Corporation, Zions Securities Corporation, and Utah-Idaho Sugar company, among others.

 

Lengthen Your Stride, Working Draft, Chapter 28, page 7

 

 

President Hinckley ended the practice in 1996, so Apostles and Prophets who were called before then could have had substantial income from these corporate positions.

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1996/04/news-of-the-church/general-authorities-to-leave-business-boards?lang=eng

 

According to that article, GA's would continue as members of the board for the Deseret Management Corporation, so this could still be a factor in their compensation.

Edited September 29, 2014 by cinepro

[Kenngo1969]

Not all church leaders are wealthy business men.  President Hinckley never worked in the private sector and was life long church employee.  He served as an apostle from 1958 to 2008 highly unlikely to raise a large family like he did with just a modest stipend. ...

People from all walks of life rear large families in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on modest incomes. But you're right. The General Authorities are probably an exception: I'm sure they're living high on the hog.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

It's not that we are supposed to have "blind obedience".  It's that our part of the tithing process ends when we pay it.  God requires us to sacrifice.  It used to be 100% (consecration), now it's 10% (tithing).  Either way, we sacrifice because it produces faith. ...

I'd like to achieve at least modest economic success.  (I'm not sure how to bring that about: it seems as though I'm spinning my wheels on that score no matter what I do ...)  The good news is that under Consecration, I would come out way ahead, since what I would consecrate likely would be dwarfed by what I'd get back.

[The Nehor]

CFR on this. 

 

If, as you describe, the "moneychangers" were providing a service to temple worshippers, and this service was their main source of income so that in addition to their operating expenses they needed to provide food, clothing, shelter etc. for themselves and their families, what would Jesus have considered an acceptable rate of return on their service?

I do not much care what they were charging; I do think they should take it outside.

[The Nehor]

Thanks for clarifying. For the sometimes crazy and sarcastic image you display here, you seem very faithful and well informed with the church Nehor.

I am trying to emulate Nibley. If you are loyal people care less about how obnoxious you are and I need a lot of leeway on that front.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Is it morally right for the church to have their hand in corporate businesses?

[The Nehor]

Is it morally right for the church to have their hand in corporate businesses?

Yes.

[ksfisher]

Is it morally right for the church to have their hand in corporate businesses?

 

Why wouldn't it be?  Is a corporation inherently immoral? 

[The Nehor]

Why wouldn't it be?  Is a corporation inherently immoral?

Yes to the second question but they are so built into society that they are impossible to avoid. A temporary necessary evil. A way to make individual profits with no individual responsibility.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Attackers of the church bring up how the Mormon church is a huge corporation like it's a bad thing.

[The Nehor]

Attackers of the church bring up how the Mormon church is a huge corporation like it's a bad thing.

Attackers of the church bring up how the Mormon church is a huge corporation like it's a bad thing.

The church is a corporation because if it was not its assets would not be safe in the current economic system. They are not much like a conventional corporation. They will not sell me stock anyways.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'd like to know how much money is going to Humanitarian Aid and poor causes. I think helping the poor and needy is the most important thing a church can do with money.

[rockpond]

The Church is rich by some standards but it is perpetually operating at a loss and needs donations. Chapels, temples, family history centers, employment centers, etc do not generate a profit. The Church is like a corporation operating a bunch of stores that collect no money. If there was no tithing the Church would go bankrupt in a year or two unless they shut down almost everything. The Church's few "for profit" ventures could not support the Church as a whole. The Church is not a self-sufficient entity asking us for donations that could operate just fine without them.

 

CFR

[VideoGameJunkie]

I just ask for a little transparency with the money. What harm would it cause?

[The Nehor]

CFR

Why do we have the stupid CFR rule?

Okay, an apostle said so. I know at least two times it was said. I believe at least one of those was recorded.