VideoGameJunkie Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 Hockey players always grow beards. It's a hockey thing.
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) Actually, the young man could have woken up one day and said: I think I will grow a beard and see what happens. Not much critical thinking there. A critical thinking person would reflect on the reasons for such a law, make a careful judgement of those reasons and then reflect on the necessity of wearing a beard to break the code and then use their imagination to see what would happen to the institution if there were no dress code, and act accordingly. Pft. I was with you until the last part. Do you claim that allowing beards is equal to abandoning the dress code? Gee, I was there when they changed the dress code to allow the men's hair to "brush" the top of the ears, and the generation before me witnessed the allowing of girls to wear jeans. As far as I know, there is still a dress code. Updating a dress code is not the same as not having a dress code. Edited September 28, 2014 by katherine the great
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) Oops. Edited September 28, 2014 by katherine the great
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 This is about as close as you get to a textbook example of the slippery slope fallacy.To say that the change in beard policy would inevitably lead to no dress code at all is unfounded.Well it's ridiculous. The dress code at BYU has been modified numerous times over the years.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I would never go to BYU for school. Too many rules that other colleges don't have. 1
Yirgacheffe Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 Pft. I was with you until the last part. Do you claim that allowing beards is equal to abandoning the dress code? Gee, I was there when they changed the dress code to allow the men's hair to "brush" the top of the ears, and the generation before me witnessed the allowing of girls to wear jeans. As far as I know, there is still a dress code. Updating a dress code is not the same as not having a dress code.You are so common sensible.
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 Most people I know don't associate beards with hippies, hippie is just a word that is in no way connected to anything in our lives today. The end of the 60's was almost 50 years ago, so a 45 year old person has no personal connection to anything a hippie might have worn or done, hippies seemed to have either disappeared or turned into the old guy down the street. My guess is there is more of an association of beards with music, country music in particular.I don't think so. The general authorities tend to be from the generations that remembers the 60's very well. A few years before I started at BYU, girls were still not allowed to wear blue jeans. Boys could wear them, but not the girls. It took a lot of complaints from the female students and they eventually changed it. Maybe if the girls there start sporting beards, the guys will raise a ruckus. 2
why me Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 Pft. I was with you until the last part. Do you claim that allowing beards is equal to abandoning the dress code? Gee, I was there when they changed the dress code to allow the men's hair to "brush" the top of the ears, and the generation before me witnessed the allowing of girls to wear jeans. As far as I know, there is still a dress code. Updating a dress code is not the same as not having a dress code.I am attempting to figure out why beards are not allowed and why the rule is not changing. Through my critical thinking skills when applied to beards at byu I reached the conclusion that the authorities may be understanding that if changed, they will need to abolish the dress code. There is no point in allowing beards and not allowing mini skirts, piercings etc. Or tank tops for both sexes etc. Why have a dress code at all? Now of course men can wear beards as members of the church. But not at byu. My guess is that the belief is that young men cannot take care of a beard. Also, if beards are allowed, there will need to be a dress code for beards...what is a kept beard or an unkept beard?
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I would never go to BYU for school. Too many rules that other colleges don't have.A very high percentage of those who apply don't get accepted to BYU anymore anyway. This is part of the reason I wonder that anyone there rebels at all. They seem to have their pick of students.
Yirgacheffe Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I don't think so. The general authorities tend to be from the generations that remembers the 60's very well. A few years before I started at BYU, girls were still not allowed to wear blue jeans. Boys could wear them, but not the girls. It took a lot of complaints from the female students and they eventually changed it. Maybe if the girls there start sporting beards, the guys will raise a ruckus. I probably know more people who were born too late to have any memory of the the sixties, to us it's just history and what they did and wore has no more of an impression than what people did or wore in the 1400's. Not sure what I think about the whole top being focused on something that is dead and gone.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 True. I also didn't have the grades to get in there either.
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I am attempting to figure out why beards are not allowed and why the rule is not changing. Through my critical thinking skills when applied to beards at byu I reached the conclusion that the authorities may be understanding that if changed, they will need to abolish the dress code. There is no point in allowing beards and not allowing mini skirts, piercings etc. Or tank tops for both sexes etc. Why have a dress code at all? Now of course men can wear beards as members of the church. But not at byu. My guess is that the belief is that young men cannot take care of a beard. Also, if beards are allowed, there will need to be a dress code for beards...what is a kept beard or an unkept beard?I'm sorry but that just sounds ridiculous to me. A beard is not a modesty issue. Students who want to have a beard can actually request a "beard card" if they have a religious or health reason for not shaving. I have never heard of a "miniskirt or tank top card" at BYU.
Yirgacheffe Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I am attempting to figure out why beards are not allowed and why the rule is not changing. Through my critical thinking skills when applied to beards at byu I reached the conclusion that the authorities may be understanding that if changed, they will need to abolish the dress code. There is no point in allowing beards and not allowing mini skirts, piercings etc. Or tank tops for both sexes etc. Why have a dress code at all? Now of course men can wear beards as members of the church. But not at byu. My guess is that the belief is that young men cannot take care of a beard. Also, if beards are allowed, there will need to be a dress code for beards...what is a kept beard or an unkept beard?That doesn't make any sense at all, beards are for many men just the way things are, after all isn't that the way God made them? To equate a God given bodily function with piercings is just unbelievable.
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I probably know more people who were born too late to have any memory of the the sixties, to us it's just history and what they did and wore has no more of an impression than what people did or wore in the 1400's. Not sure what I think about the whole top being focused on something that is dead and gone.I agree. The 60's was a looooooooong time ago. Time to move on!
katherine the great Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 True. I also didn't have the grades to get in there either. My goof-off son applied to BYU with a 3.2 GPA and got in. My daughter (a perfectly model citizen) applied with a 3.8 and got rejected--twice! I can't make sense of it...
strappinglad Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 Technically it would be a ' kempt' or ' unkempt ' beard. A kept beard is a horse of a different color. As with most top down organizations , policies change one funeral at a time. I suspect in 40 more years there will be some beards on BYU campus. And , if we keep eating hormone laced meats, the women will be growing them also.
Brian 2.0 Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I am attempting to figure out why beards are not allowed and why the rule is not changing. Through my critical thinking skills when applied to beards at byu I reached the conclusion that the authorities may be understanding that if changed, they will need to abolish the dress code.Then how would you explain why the authorities have changed the dress code in the past (women wearing blue jeans is an example that has been mentioned). Your conclusion here doesn't work when applied to changes that have already occurred. Unless you think the authorities today are also in error on their critical thinking skills.
why me Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 That doesn't make any sense at all, beards are for many men just the way things are, after all isn't that the way God made them? To equate a God given bodily function with piercings is just unbelievable.I can only use my imagination as why they do not permit beards. What is your explanation? Go through the question process and come to your own conclusion. The beard is worn on the face, and piercings can also be worn on the face. Where should the church put the bounds for a dress code? As to why the autorities changed the dress code in the past and not now, I would imagine it to be 'fear' of losing control of how lds young women and men should appear to the public and as a school.
mormonnewb Posted September 28, 2014 Author Posted September 28, 2014 It took a lot of complaints from the female students and they eventually changed it.This is easily the most glorious sentence ever posted on this board! For more than a year, I've been repeatedly told that church leaders will NOT respond to pressure from below. But here seems to be at least one instance in which that is not true. Of course, I've known as much all along but finally, to read it from the keyboard of a REAL saint.This Church is getting better all the time!
sheilauk Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) BYU is not the Church. Edited September 28, 2014 by sheilauk 2
The Nehor Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 This is easily the most glorious sentence ever posted on this board! For more than a year, I've been repeatedly told that church leaders will NOT respond to pressure from below. But here seems to be at least one instance in which that is not true. Of course, I've known as much all along but finally, to read it from the keyboard of a REAL saint.This Church is getting better all the time!On a board with discussions about eternal life and happiness and glory beyond description the most glorious thing that you have ever heard is something that peripherally might agree with you in some way? That is kind of sad.And of course you are also wrong. The church leadership is not micromanaging the BYU dress code and so they did not respond to pressure from below because they probably were not even involved. 2
Bernard Gui Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) Who CURRENTLY associates beards with hippies? Are there still any hippies in the 21st century?To me, that would be like BYU banning red dinner jackets because they don't want to associate themselves with the red coats of the British soldiers from the Revolutionary War.If we are going to give sway to stereotypes, they should at least be those relevant to THIS century.The hippies are all in Washington attending the Evergreen State College in Olympia. I kid you not.http://evergreen.edu/geoduck/home.htm Edited September 28, 2014 by Bernard Gui
Bernard Gui Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) My roommate and I had beards at BYU in 1964, but not in 1965. The policy was implemented to counteract the association of hair with the protest movement and rebellion. It's 50 years later, but I don't think that association persists. Hirsucci and Ishmael, two of my sons who attended BYU, were busted at the testing center for not shaving...they have heavy dark beards that grow rapidly and although having shaved in the morning, were unable to pass inspection in the evening.I don't know....maybe it's time to move on? Edited September 28, 2014 by Bernard Gui
Hamba Tuhan Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I don't get Hinckley is trying to say here. That he wants less people to matriculate? At BYU? Yes. He actually told us that sometimes people wondered why the Church didn't keep enlarging BYU or making additional branch campuses. He said the Church certainly could do such things, but only to its detriment. I was't surprised at all when I heard this. On a long drive back from a zone conference one day, my mission president, who had been a regional representative back when such callings existed, told me that he had once been contacted by officials from another church who wondered if the Saints would be interested in buying from them one of their small university campuses in the local area, to turn into another BYU--somewhere. He contacted Church headquarters to relay the offer and was later telephoned in return by Pres Hinckley, who told him, roughly: 'Please tell them no. We have enough trouble with BYU as it is; why would we want to multiply that trouble?'
Guest Posted September 28, 2014 Posted September 28, 2014 I would never go to BYU for school. Too many rules that other colleges don't have.Young people away from home for the first time...Even at my age I can see the need for structure.
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