Michael Homer's Book On Mormism And Masonry

[Tacenda]

I find it hard to believe Neibaur would have introduced Kabbalism to Joseph Smith. All my Jewish friends say that men must be at least forty years old and be very well versed in the Talmud and Torah before they are allowed to be instructed in the Kabbalah, which is like a whole new ocean of thought. Any Kabbalistic knowledge Joseph had must have come from an independent study (which I have not read any evidence of yet, maybe somebody else knows about it?). I read about half of the Zohar, and was so lost (though it was interesting) without a teacher that I concluded if Joseph got anything profound out of the jewish mystics on his own he must have been a genius, or a prophet

http://gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

 

"While I would not diminish the inventive genius of Joseph Smith, careful reevaluation of historical data suggests there is both a poetic and an unsuspected factual substance to Bloom's thesis. Though yet little understood, from Joseph's adolescent years forward he had repeated, sometime intimate and arguably influential associations with distant legacies of Gnosticism conveyed by Kabbalah and Hermeticism--traditions intertwined in the Renaissance and nurtured through the reformative religious aspirations of three subsequent centuries. Though any sympathy Joseph held for old heresy was perhaps intrinsic to his nature rather than bred by association, the associations did exist. And they hold a rich context of meanings. Of course, the relative import of these interactions in Joseph Smith's history will remain problematic for historians; efforts to revision the Prophet in their light--or to reevaluate our methodology of understanding his history--may evoke a violently response from traditionalists. Nonetheless, these is substantial documentary evidence, material unexplored by Bloom or Mormon historians generally, supporting a much more direct Kabbalistic and Hermetic influences upon Smith and his doctrine of God than has previously been considered possible.

Through his associations with ceremonial magic as a young treasure seer, Smith contacted symbols and lore taken directly from Kabbalah. In his prophetic translation of sacred writ, his hermeneutic method was in nature Kabbalistic. With his initiation into Masonry, he entered a tradition born of the Hermetic-Kabbalistic tradition. These associations culminated in Nauvoo, the period of his most important doctrinal and ritual innovations. During these last years, he enjoyed friendship with a European Jew well-versed in the standard Kabbalistic works and possibly possessing in Nauvoo an extraordinary collection of Kabbalistic books and manuscripts. By 1844 Smith not only was cognizant of Kabbalah, but enlisted theosophic concepts taken directly from its principal text in his most important doctrinal sermon, the "King Follett Discourse."

Smith's concepts of God's plurality, his vision of God as anthropos, and his possession by the issue of sacred marriage, all might have been cross-fertilized by this intercourse with Kabbalistic theosophy--an occult relationship climaxing in Nauvoo. This is a complex thesis; its understanding requires exploration of an occult religious tradition spanning more that a millennium of Western history, an investigation that begins naturally with Kabbalah."

 

Me:  I guess I'm a little late to the game, this has apparently been mentioned.  Why isn't this evidence?  I'm asking Volgadon especially. 

Edited August 25, 2014 by Tacenda

[Calm]

OTOH:

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/MSR/article/download/31970/30216

Can't copy it, but read the conclusion if you don't want to read the whole thing.

[mfbukowski]

Well, there is no historical basis for the claim.

 

Augustine wrote about the connection. Because they were unable to deny the antiquity and power of some New Testament teachings, several pagans had claimed that Jesus had borrowed the teachings of Plato, so there were Christians like Ambrose who searched through old writings and histories in order to refute the claim. http://books.google.com/books?id=SVu6aScZrxIC&pg=PA43&dq=prophet+jeremiah+teacher+plato&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SqH6U_uDLY2cygSmjoCYAQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=prophet%20jeremiah%20teacher%20plato&f=false

 

Here is the use to which two prominent Spanish Jewish medieval philosophers and courtiers put the Jeremiah legend. http://books.google.com/books?id=IYKBAcNXCe8C&pg=PA169&dq=prophet+jeremiah+teacher+plato&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zqL6U6zLGMuwyASczoGwBw&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=prophet%20jeremiah%20teacher%20plato&f=false

 

You can see why this sort of tradition was attractive to thinkers trying to make sense of the world without discarding the contributions of those outside their faiths.

I find it hard to believe Neibaur would have introduced Kabbalism to Joseph Smith. All my Jewish friends say that men must be at least forty years old and be very well versed in the Talmud and Torah before they are allowed to be instructed in the Kabbalah, which is like a whole new ocean of thought. Any Kabbalistic knowledge Joseph had must have come from an independent study (which I have not read any evidence of yet, maybe somebody else knows about it?). I read about half of the Zohar, and was so lost (though it was interesting) without a teacher that I concluded if Joseph got anything profound out of the jewish mystics on his own he must have been a genius, or a prophet

Well what I see in both of these is Neoplatonist apologists seeking a case for giving their view some traditional authenticity, but I'm not buying it.

I think that Kabbalah comes directly from Hellenistic Jews and Gnosticism, and is not based on older Jewish thought at all, but I do not count myself as a scholar in these matters at all. If I have any talents I think I am good at recognizing philosophical positions, and Kabbalah is very Neoplatonists. And so is Catholic tradition from Plotinus to Augustine and on to Aquinas, etc.

To me, that's where the wheels started coming off the gospel.

I think Joseph was about as far from Neoplatonism as one can get.

But hey, that's just me.

[mfbukowski]

http://gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

 

"While I would not diminish the inventive genius of Joseph Smith, careful reevaluation of historical data suggests there is both a poetic and an unsuspected factual substance to Bloom's thesis. Though yet little understood, from Joseph's adolescent years forward he had repeated, sometime intimate and arguably influential associations with distant legacies of Gnosticism conveyed by Kabbalah and Hermeticism--traditions intertwined in the Renaissance and nurtured through the reformative religious aspirations of three subsequent centuries. Though any sympathy Joseph held for old heresy was perhaps intrinsic to his nature rather than bred by association, the associations did exist. And they hold a rich context of meanings. Of course, the relative import of these interactions in Joseph Smith's history will remain problematic for historians; efforts to revision the Prophet in their light--or to reevaluate our methodology of understanding his history--may evoke a violently response from traditionalists. Nonetheless, these is substantial documentary evidence, material unexplored by Bloom or Mormon historians generally, supporting a much more direct Kabbalistic and Hermetic influences upon Smith and his doctrine of God than has previously been considered possible.

Through his associations with ceremonial magic as a young treasure seer, Smith contacted symbols and lore taken directly from Kabbalah. In his prophetic translation of sacred writ, his hermeneutic method was in nature Kabbalistic. With his initiation into Masonry, he entered a tradition born of the Hermetic-Kabbalistic tradition. These associations culminated in Nauvoo, the period of his most important doctrinal and ritual innovations. During these last years, he enjoyed friendship with a European Jew well-versed in the standard Kabbalistic works and possibly possessing in Nauvoo an extraordinary collection of Kabbalistic books and manuscripts. By 1844 Smith not only was cognizant of Kabbalah, but enlisted theosophic concepts taken directly from its principal text in his most important doctrinal sermon, the "King Follett Discourse."

Smith's concepts of God's plurality, his vision of God as anthropos, and his possession by the issue of sacred marriage, all might have been cross-fertilized by this intercourse with Kabbalistic theosophy--an occult relationship climaxing in Nauvoo. This is a complex thesis; its understanding requires exploration of an occult religious tradition spanning more that a millennium of Western history, an investigation that begins naturally with Kabbalah."

 

Me:  I guess I'm a little late to the game, this has apparently been mentioned.  Why isn't this evidence?  I'm asking Volgadon especially.

I think this is more about the way Harold Bloom thinks than it actually applies to Joseph.

Bloom is saying "I like Joseph Smith". He is saying not that he was influenced by Kabbalah as much as a renewer, a re-writer of Kabbalah, a strong poet as Bloom would say.

Any way that's what I think

[VideoGameJunkie]

Is anyone on these boards a Mason?

[volgadon]

Well what I see in both of these is Neoplatonist apologists seeking a case for giving their view some traditional authenticity, but I'm not buying it.

I think that Kabbalah comes directly from Hellenistic Jews and Gnosticism, and is not based on older Jewish thought at all, but I do not count myself as a scholar in these matters at all. If I have any talents I think I am good at recognizing philosophical positions, and Kabbalah is very Neoplatonists. And so is Catholic tradition from Plotinus to Augustine and on to Aquinas, etc.

To me, that's where the wheels started coming off the gospel.

I think Joseph was about as far from Neoplatonism as one can get.

But hey, that's just me.

 

It would have been extremely difficult to find any Jews in antiquity who weren't Hellenised to one degree or another. There used to be a scholarly dichotomy between Hellenistic Jews and non-Hellenistic Jews, but this view has been largely discarded after a closer study of the sources. After all, Hellenism was no monolith, but existed upon a spectrum of sorts. No serious scholar will deny the Neoplatonism of the Kabbalah (gnosticism is another story entirely), but the importance of earlier ideas to the Kabbalah has been recognised more and more where Scholem used to downplay continuity (his historiography/historiosophy saw history in temrs of dramatic ruptures). Lots of really exciting work is being done on this. Right now one can say that Kabbalah is the internal development of Jewish esotericism and philosophical enquiry which began toacquire its peculiar shape in the 10th-11th centuries. There are lots of underground currents, such as Kabbalistic teaching of the Contraction of Divine Light which was prominent in the 16rh century (and is even echoed in the D&C), but has been shown to be much, much older. I used to be far more certain of Kabbalistic novelty than I am now.

[volgadon]

I find it hard to believe Neibaur would have introduced Kabbalism to Joseph Smith. All my Jewish friends say that men must be at least forty years old and be very well versed in the Talmud and Torah before they are allowed to be instructed in the Kabbalah, which is like a whole new ocean of thought. Any Kabbalistic knowledge Joseph had must have come from an independent study (which I have not read any evidence of yet, maybe somebody else knows about it?). I read about half of the Zohar, and was so lost (though it was interesting) without a teacher that I concluded if Joseph got anything profound out of the jewish mystics on his own he must have been a genius, or a prophet

 

The forty years old thing was not a hard and fast rule, and in Joseph's day did not apply to the Zohar (I actually wrote about that in this board a couple of years ago), but yeah. There is no actual evidence of Joseph studying it.

[volgadon]

http://gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

 

"While I would not diminish the inventive genius of Joseph Smith, careful reevaluation of historical data suggests there is both a poetic and an unsuspected factual substance to Bloom's thesis. Though yet little understood, from Joseph's adolescent years forward he had repeated, sometime intimate and arguably influential associations with distant legacies of Gnosticism conveyed by Kabbalah and Hermeticism--traditions intertwined in the Renaissance and nurtured through the reformative religious aspirations of three subsequent centuries. Though any sympathy Joseph held for old heresy was perhaps intrinsic to his nature rather than bred by association, the associations did exist. And they hold a rich context of meanings. Of course, the relative import of these interactions in Joseph Smith's history will remain problematic for historians; efforts to revision the Prophet in their light--or to reevaluate our methodology of understanding his history--may evoke a violently response from traditionalists. Nonetheless, these is substantial documentary evidence, material unexplored by Bloom or Mormon historians generally, supporting a much more direct Kabbalistic and Hermetic influences upon Smith and his doctrine of God than has previously been considered possible.

Through his associations with ceremonial magic as a young treasure seer, Smith contacted symbols and lore taken directly from Kabbalah. In his prophetic translation of sacred writ, his hermeneutic method was in nature Kabbalistic. With his initiation into Masonry, he entered a tradition born of the Hermetic-Kabbalistic tradition. These associations culminated in Nauvoo, the period of his most important doctrinal and ritual innovations. During these last years, he enjoyed friendship with a European Jew well-versed in the standard Kabbalistic works and possibly possessing in Nauvoo an extraordinary collection of Kabbalistic books and manuscripts. By 1844 Smith not only was cognizant of Kabbalah, but enlisted theosophic concepts taken directly from its principal text in his most important doctrinal sermon, the "King Follett Discourse."

Smith's concepts of God's plurality, his vision of God as anthropos, and his possession by the issue of sacred marriage, all might have been cross-fertilized by this intercourse with Kabbalistic theosophy--an occult relationship climaxing in Nauvoo. This is a complex thesis; its understanding requires exploration of an occult religious tradition spanning more that a millennium of Western history, an investigation that begins naturally with Kabbalah."

 

Me:  I guess I'm a little late to the game, this has apparently been mentioned.  Why isn't this evidence?  I'm asking Volgadon especially. 

 

Tacenda, if I could find evidence of Joseph Smith having studied Kabbalah, then I could easily make a name for myself in both Mormon and Jewish studies. Such evidence would force a major rethink of what we know about the dissemination of Kabballah in the 19th century in general, and the in the US in particular, as well as the religious-intellectual landscape of America. Alas, the evidence simply doesn't go there.

 

"Nonetheless, these is substantial documentary evidence, material unexplored by Bloom or Mormon historians generally, supporting a much more direct Kabbalistic and Hermetic influences upon Smith and his doctrine of God than has previously been considered possible." This "substantial documentary evidence" has yet to come to light. Even Owens' (whom I like a great deal) conceptual similarities are often very problematic, like his assertion that the KFD draws upon a Zoharic passage. When looked at closer, Joseph is saying something vastly different than the Zoharic passage, so much so that any link is simply untenable. Now, I know of a far more impressive Kabbalistic parallel in the KFD which Owens did not mention, but again there is no evidence linking it back to the Kabbalah.

[Calm]

Is anyone on these boards a Mason?

Bjw who posted earlier is. You can do a search on his content, he has several posts on his experiences as well as information.

[volgadon]

Bjw who posted earlier is. You can do a search on his content, he has several posts on his experiences as well as information.

 

He seems spot on with some of his observations in that post.

[Calm]

The forty years old thing was not a hard and fast rule, and in Joseph's day did not apply to the Zohar (I actually wrote about that in this board a couple of years ago), but yeah. There is no actual evidence of Joseph studying it.

Here perhaps?:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57086-the-ban-on-kabbalah/page-2#entry1209097341

[volgadon]

Here perhaps?:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/57086-the-ban-on-kabbalah/page-2#entry1209097341

 

Exactly.

[mfbukowski]

Bjw who posted earlier is. You can do a search on his content, he has several posts on his experiences as well as information.

I agree. From what little I know as a novice, his much bigger and better informed understanding of these subjects is confirmed. He is a good source I think for a LDS understanding of Masonry.

[Calm]

Exactly.

I am good.

[Alvie J]

Has anyone on this board read Michael Homer's new book, Joseph's Temples: The Dynamic Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism?

 

Likewise, is anyone aware of any reviews of the book other than those on Amazon?  In other words, full-length, in-depth reviews, not a few sentences. 

If you’re really interested in the Book of Mormon and its connection to Masonry and the Rosicrucians perhaps you might look at this college research paper in which explores the Book of Mormon as a ciphered text.  It’s full of colored graphs and to pictures better help the reader discern the ciphers and their meanings. 

 

https://www.academia.edu/7892970/The_Mormon_Cipher   

[Calm]

Another link....spam anyone?

 

And I get to use them again, I wonder how many more times today?

 

         

Edited June 23, 2015 by calmoriah

[cinepro]

If you’re really interested in the Book of Mormon and its connection to Masonry and the Rosicrucians perhaps you might look at this college research paper in which explores the Book of Mormon as a ciphered text.  It’s full of colored graphs and to pictures better help the reader discern the ciphers and their meanings. 

 

https://www.academia.edu/7892970/The_Mormon_Cipher   

 

FWIW, it should be pointed out that the "college" is Dixie, and whoever wrote it is terrible at spelling, among other things.  Click that link at your own risk.  You cannot un-read what is there.

Edited June 23, 2015 by cinepro