Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Calm]

“What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself.”- Blaise Pascal, Pensées VII(425)

So those who believe they are filled with God's love can rest in the assurance they are saved then?

There are many who reject the teaching of Calvinism based on their own experience of being filled with God's love...so even though they are wrong about Calvinism's description of God, they are still saved by evidence of believing they are filled with God's love and no longer need to seek other ways to fill the abyss?

Edited December 28, 2014 by calmoriah

[Calm]

The best place in hell is indeed a place of suffering.

How bad in comparison to earth?

[Flyonthewall]

People who are not chosen for salvation cannot and will not do anything to affect their salvation.

So... even if they wanted to, even if they believed in God and did everything they knew to follow Him, there is zero chance to be "saved"? Damned since before birth? In your understanding of God, He creates damned people with no offer of salvation? Simply: Your whole existence is to be damned?

[Anakin7]

   Post deleted after thinking about it.

   

    In His Debt/Grace

        Anakin7

Edited December 28, 2014 by Anakin7

[Calm]

There is no need to refute Calvinism if we have our own faith.  

Edited December 28, 2014 by calmoriah

[danielwoods]

I know that many Calvinists find this belief in God's sovereignty (I believe that is the correct term) comforting.  When I hear it I just want to cry though (this is not hyperbole, I am tearing up right now).  I can't imagine how horrible it must be to have a hunger to seek God and not being able to do so because one was not of the chosen and yet one was aware enough to want to be….and knowing this state goes on forever.  It is not something I can accept as loving no matter how I try because I know my friends who believe this are very loving and they understand it as a perfect and infinite form of love as well as justice and mercy.

 

If the belief is that anyone who looks like they are trying to seek out God, the divine in their life however they understand, is someone God is drawing to him and that only those who look like they are truly making an effort to reject God even after seeing evidence that he exists, etc….well, that would make more sense, but I haven't seen a Calvinist who says that this is the way it happens.

 

By any chance, what do you think?  How do you tell yourself or do you think you can tell at all?  

 

Not being a Calvinist myself, take what I say with a grain of salt. But, the bold above is my understanding of Calvinism. Which seems to be largely misunderstood. 

 

How does one know they are saved? They want to know God. That desire (according to a Calvinist) wouldn't exist and doesn't exist in a "non-chosen" person. 

 

From what I have read, Calvinism emphasizes the role of God's sovereignty in our salvation and sanctification. However, this cannot remove our freewill, so the difference is more of a difference in emphasis, than an actual contradiction (at least in my view). 

[pogi]

Not being a Calvinist myself, take what I say with a grain of salt. But, the bold above is my understanding of Calvinism. Which seems to be largely misunderstood. 

 

How does one know they are saved? They want to know God. That desire (according to a Calvinist) wouldn't exist and doesn't exist in a "non-chosen" person. 

 

From what I have read, Calvinism emphasizes the role of God's sovereignty in our salvation and sanctification. However, this cannot remove our freewill, so the difference is more of a difference in emphasis, than an actual contradiction (at least in my view). 

 

Freewill?  According to a Calvinist, it is God's will, not our own that brings us to Him, it is also therefore God's will and not our own that separates the non-believers from Him for no fault of their own.  A person is not free to will themselves to God or away from God, but it is God's will.  That is not freewill. 

[Calm]

Not being a Calvinist myself, take what I say with a grain of salt. But, the bold above is my understanding of Calvinism. Which seems to be largely misunderstood. 

 

How does one know they are saved? They want to know God. That desire (according to a Calvinist) wouldn't exist and doesn't exist in a "non-chosen" person. 

 

From what I have read, Calvinism emphasizes the role of God's sovereignty in our salvation and sanctification. However, this cannot remove our freewill, so the difference is more of a difference in emphasis, than an actual contradiction (at least in my view). 

Then all LDS are saved (well, those who are devout in their belief) because desiring to know God is inherent in that belief.

 

Would Jim and intra agree to this, I wonder.

[danielwoods]

Freewill?  According to a Calvinist, it is God's will, not our own that brings us to Him, it is also therefore God's will and not our own that separates the non-believers from Him for no fault of their own.  A person is not free to will themselves to God or away from God, but it is God's will.  That is not freewill.

 

The tension of freewill and God's sovereignty is always there, no matter if one takes a Calvinist position or Arminian position. As it states, "Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined..."

 

If freewill was not free, then God wouldn't have said, "who so ever will..." and would be unjustified in his judgement of those who reject him. 

[danielwoods]

Then all LDS are saved (well, those who are devout in their belief) because desiring to know God is inherent in that belief.

 

Would Jim and intra agree to this, I wonder.

 

As I have said before, that question is beyond my pay grade. God alone knows. 

[Jim Stiles]

How bad in comparison to earth?

Much, much worse than anything on earth.

[Jim Stiles]

So those who believe they are filled with God's love can rest in the assurance they are saved then?

There are many who reject the teaching of Calvinism based on their own experience of being filled with God's love...so even though they are wrong about Calvinism's description of God, they are still saved by evidence of believing they are filled with God's love and no longer need to seek other ways to fill the abyss?

Those who believe the biblical gospel can rest in assurance that they are saved.

[Jim Stiles]

So... even if they wanted to, even if they believed in God and did everything they knew to follow Him, there is zero chance to be "saved"? Damned since before birth? In your understanding of God, He creates damned people with no offer of salvation? Simply: Your whole existence is to be damned?

People who are not chosen for salvation either do not believe in God or believe false things about God.

[ERayR]

Much, much worse than anything on earth.

 

Have yo

 

Those who believe the biblical gospel can rest in assurance that they are saved.

 

Hey I thought you didn't have to do anything and now here you go dropping in requirements.  Make up you mind you are being inconsistent.

[ERayR]

People who are not chosen for salvation either do not believe in God or believe false things about God.

 

See above post.

[Teancum]

[fs quote name=Jim Stiles" post="1209450177" timestamp="1419819776]Those who believe the biblical gospel can rest in assurance that they are saved.

[Jim Stiles]

Have yo

 

 

Hey I thought you didn't have to do anything and now here you go dropping in requirements.  Make up you mind you are being inconsistent.

People do not have free will. A person who was chosen for salvation will hear and believe the gospel of Christ.

[Jim Stiles]

So you are not saved. The Calivinsitic teachings you claim as gospel are one of those other gospels the Apostle Paul teaches about.

Care to back up that assertion?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jim Stiles

[ERayR]

People do not have free will. A person who was chosen for salvation will hear and believe the gospel of Christ.

 

But it has to be the right church.  That is a requirement, right.

[Teancum]

Care to back up that assertion?

Read your Bible. How many Christians are Calvinitst? Not many thank goodness.

But I will give you one clincher. John 3:16. This verse states ANYONE who believes in Jesus will not perish. Says nothing about irrestible Grace and an extra biblical TULIP theology.

Anyone who believes, which means ACTION on our part is saved.

I suggest you reject your false theology or you may be the one who will perish.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Teancum

[Jim Stiles]

But it has to be the right church.  That is a requirement, right.

Given the fact that in many churches, the gospel of Christ is never spoken, then yes.

[Jim Stiles]

Reqd your Bible. How many Christians are Calvinitst? Not many thank goodness.

I do read the bible. Every thing I read in the bible supports what I am saying.

It does not matter how many people are Calvinist. There are more Roman Catholics than Mormons. Does that automatically mean that Roman Catholicism is true and Mormonism is false? There are more Southern Baptists than Mormons. Does that automatically mean that Southern Baptists are right and that Mormons are wrong?

[ERayR]

Given the fact that in many churches, the gospel of Christ is never spoken, then yes.

 

We preach the gospel of Christ in my church or do I have to be Calvinist.

[Jim Stiles]

We preach the gospel of Christ in my church or do I have to be Calvinist.

The gospel of Christ is not preached in LDS churches. Remember, I grew up in one. If the gospel of Christ is mentioned at all, it is made fun of.

[ERayR]

The gospel of Christ is not preached in LDS churches. Remember, I grew up in one. If the gospel of Christ is mentioned at all, it is made fun of.

 

No offense but I have my doubts that you understand or have ever understood what is preached in LDS Churches.  I base this in what I have read in your posts.