Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[Jim Stiles]

No offense but I have my doubts that you understand or have ever understood what is preached in LDS Churches.  I base this in what I have read in your posts.

Then educate me.

[ERayR]

Then educate me.

 

Pick a topic and start a thread.

[Teancum]

I do read the bible. Every thing I read in the bible supports what I am saying.It does not matter how many people are Calvinist. There are more Roman Catholics than Mormons. Does that automatically mean that Roman Catholicism is true and Mormonism is false? There are more Southern Baptists than Mormons. Does that automatically mean that Southern Baptists are right and that Mormons are wrong?

No. It means nobody really knows what the hell they are talking about. The Bible can be used to support many theologies. It is an internally inconsistent document and a poor tool on which to base ones life and world view for the most part.

Catholics are Christians. southern baptists are as well. Even the system of belief called Calvinism is even though iti is a hideous theology So is Mormomism albeit I understand why more Orthodox Chritians find it heretical.

Read my edited post above. John 3:16 sinks your ship.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Teancum

[Jim Stiles]

Read your Bible. How many Christians are Calvinitst? Not many thank goodness.

But I will give you one clincher. John 3:16. This verse states ANYONE who believes in Jesus will not perish. Says nothing about irrestible Grace and an extra biblical TULIP theology.

Anyone who believes, which means ACTION on our part is saved.

I suggest you reject your false theology or you may be the one who will perish.

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom. 8:28, 30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.… Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom. 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Eph. 1:5, 11. … having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.… in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

2 Tim. 1:9–10. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

[Teancum]

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.Rom. 8:28, 30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.… Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.Rom. 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.Eph. 1:5, 11. … having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.… in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.2 Tim. 1:9–10. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

I will take JESUS over Paul any day. much of the twisted interpretation of Paul is a fine example of how inconsistent the Bible is. Your proof texting further proves this.

I could trot out other Bible passages as well. To what end?

Use the mind God gave you man. Your religious beliefs are simply irrational. So are your proof texts.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Teancum

[ERayR]

No. It means nobody really knows what the hell they are talking about. The Bible can be used to support many theologies. It is an internally inconsistent document and a poor tool on which to base ones life and world view for the most part.

Catholics are Christians. southern baptists are as well. Even the system of belief called Calvimism is even though itis a hideous theology So is Mormomism albeit I understand why more Orthodox Chritians find it heretical.

Read my edited post above. John 3:16 sinks your ship.

 

Better watch out I am mostly agreeing with you with some small qualifications.  Some have more of an idea than others what they are talking about.  Orthodox Christians of a necessity must find Mormonism heretical.  If they don't a lot of Orthodox Christianity has problems.  It all hinges on how you interpret the data or whose interpretation you choose to follow.

[Jim Stiles]

No. It means nobody really knows what the hell they are talking about. The Bible can be used to support many theologies. It is an internally inconsistent document and a poor tool on which to base ones life and world view for the most part.

...

The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it is the Word of God. -- WCF 1:4

2 Pet. 1:19–20. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Tim. 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

1 John 5:9. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1 Thess. 2:13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Rev. 1:1–2. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jim Stiles

[Jim Stiles]

I will take JESUS over Paul any day. much of the twisted interpretation of Paul is a fine example of how inconsistent the Bible is. Your proof texting further proves this.

I could trot out other Bible passages as well. To what end?

Use the mind God gave you man. Your religious beliefs are simply irrational. So are your proof texts.

Irrational: Not rational; unfounded or nonsensical.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irrational

No, sorry. In spite of the fact that I have backed almost everything that I have said with Biblical proof texts, you have described what is perfectly rational as irrational. So much for the Bible then as far as the LDS are concerned.

[Anakin7]

     I am sorry, and I cannot speak for other LDS who read your post # 2274 but I personaly have spoken in our LDS Church Sacrament meetings/Gospel Principles Sunday School Classes/Priesthood Meetings/Missionary Meetings and have taught of The absolute need of one to Recieve Christ and his Awesome Atoning Blood Sacrifice on our behalf - The True Gospel Of Our Lord Of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Saviour/God/King/Master Christ Jesus.

 

     Your statement is that of one of a [ deleted left blank]. I apologize to the Moderators but how does one remain on this board making such posts ?. You have been given Grace on this board to speak such things. You need True Grace.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

[ERayR]

Irrational: Not rational; unfounded or nonsensical.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irrational

No, sorry. In spite of the fact that I have backed almost everything that I have said with Biblical proof texts, you have described what is perfectly rational as irrational. So much for the Bible then as far as the LDS are concerned.

 

The nice thing about Biblical proof texts is they are subject to interpretation and the bad thing about Biblical proof texts is they are subject to interpretation.

[Flyonthewall]

People who are not chosen for salvation either do not believe in God or believe false things about God.

So... if not chosen then God interferes and does not allow belief in Him or correct beliefs about Him? Edited December 29, 2014 by Flyonthewall

[Anakin7]

    Your 2 Tim 3:16 is referring to the O.T, No O.T/N.T /Bible untill apprx 390 AD.

 

In His Debt/Grace

        Anakin7

[Jim Stiles]

...

But I will give you one clincher. John 3:16. This verse states ANYONE who believes in Jesus will not perish. Says nothing about irrestible Grace and an extra biblical TULIP theology.

...

All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. -- WCF 10:1

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom. 8:28, 30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.… Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom. 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Eph. 1:5, 11. … having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.… in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

2 Tim. 1:9–10. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

[ERayR]

All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by his almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace. -- WCF 10:1

Acts 13:48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Rom. 8:28, 30. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.… Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom. 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Eph. 1:5, 11. … having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.… in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

2 Tim. 1:9–10. … who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

 

Is this WCF part of your scripture?

[Jim Stiles]

I am sorry, and I cannot speak for other LDS who read your post # 2274 but I personaly have spoken in our LDS Church Sacrament meetings/Gospel Principles Sunday School Classes/Priesthood Meetings/Missionary Meetings and have taught of The absolute need of one to Recieve Christ and his Awesome Atoning Blood Sacrifice on our behalf - The True Gospel Of Our Lord Of Life/Lord/Redeemer/Saviour/God/King/Master Christ Jesus.

 

     Your statement is that of one of a [ deleted left blank]. I apologize to the Moderators but how does one remain on this board making such posts ?. You have been given Grace on this board to speak such things. You need True Grace.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

Remember, I am a Calvinist. When I say that the Christian gospel is not preached at LDS churches, I mean the Christian gospel as understood by Calvinists is not preached in LDS churches. If I get banned for merely speaking what I have observed, then why have this particular topic?

[Jim Stiles]

Is this WCF part of your scripture?

No, but the Westminster Confession of Faith (WCF) is a document that based upon what I believe the Bible actually says. That is why there are biblical proof texts.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jim Stiles

[ERayR]

Remember, I am a Calvinist. When I say that the Christian gospel is not preached at LDS churches, I mean the Christian gospel as understood by Calvinists is not preached in LDS churches. If I get banned for merely speaking what I have observed, then why have this particular topic?

 

It would help if you would be more precise.

[ERayR]

No, but the Westminster Confession of Faith is a document that based upon what the Bible actually says. That is why there are biblical proof texts.

 

OH it is extra-scriptural interpretation of what the Bible says.  What the Bible actually says is still up for grabs.  It all depends on interpretation.

[Jim Stiles]

So... if not chosen then God interferes and does not allow belief in Him or correct beliefs about Him?

Yes.

[ERayR]

Yes.

 

Absolutely no free will?

[Jim Stiles]

OH it is extra-scriptural interpretation of what the Bible says.  What the Bible actually says is still up for grabs.  It all depends on interpretation.

What the Bible says is not up for grabs. When we die and have to face Him, what the Bible says (for those of us who had a Bible to read) will not be up for grabs.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Jim Stiles

[Jim Stiles]

Absolutely no free will?

No free will at all.

[ERayR]

What the Bible says is not up for grabs. When we die and have to face Him, what the Bible says (those who had a Bible to read) will not be up for grabs.

 

So which Bible and which interpretation?  How is one to know?  Again I reiterate it is all in interpretations and choices.

[Anakin7]

     So the "Christian Gospel " as understood by  "Calvinists" is the one True Gospel ?. What Church Denomination do you worship GOD In ?.

 

In His Debt/Grace

      Anakin7

[ERayR]

No free will at all.

 

Again when I read scripture I don't find this arbitrary and capricious God.  What a bleak outlook.  Just a puppet with an arbitrary and capricious God pulling the strings.