Dear Evangelical Friends: Can A Mormon Be A Christian?

[ERayR]

In answer to your question, no. The trinity is three persons, one essence. 

 

How does that work? 

[danielwoods]

How does that work? 

 

Seems to work just fine. 

[JLHPROF]

How many beings are a Siamese twin? One or two? 

 

Two persons, two beings, two essences - according to any definition.

 

They are connected however.  Nobody is denying a connection between the members of the Godhead.  Joseph Smith taught they were connected by a covenant.  They share a purpose.  Why do they also need to be connected in some undefinable ethereal manner?

[ERayR]

Seems to work just fine. 

 

Let me rephrase.  How can three beings be one essence?

[danielwoods]

Two persons, two beings, two essences - according to any definition.

 

They are connected however.  Nobody is denying a connection between the members of the Godhead.  Joseph Smith taught they were connected by a covenant.  They share a purpose.  Why do they also need to be connected in some undefinable ethereal manner?

 

It's your belief, not mine. I don't trust what Joseph Smith taught. I trust what the Biblical text teaches. I also have a feeling that God is not so easily defined. 

[JLHPROF]

It's your belief, not mine. I don't trust what Joseph Smith taught. I trust what the Biblical text teaches. I also have a feeling that God is not so easily defined. 

 

Oh, the Bible teaches no such thing.  Just a poor medieval interpretation that won't go away.

[danielwoods]

Let me rephrase.  How can three beings be one essence?

 

I didn't create the idea, or make them who they are, so I'm not sure I can answer your question, other than it's a mystery just like the many mysteries that the LDS claim as well. 

 

I have shared what I understand before. That is, that we are talking about an infinite being, that transcends all, knows all, and has all power at his control. Easily understood by our finite minds? I don't think so. 

[danielwoods]

Oh, the Bible teaches no such thing.  Just a poor medieval interpretation that won't go away.

 

Indeed, the concept is derived from the Bible. Just as we were talking about John 1:1, it's one of the main reasons the JW's change the verse, it demonstrates that Jesus is equal to God the father. 

[JLHPROF]

Indeed, the concept is derived from the Bible. Just as we were talking about John 1:1, it's one of the main reasons the JW's change the verse, it demonstrates that Jesus is equal to God the father. 

 

No, it's just a matter of interpretation.  I (and most Mormons) think that John 1:1 means something completely different to the trinitarian belief.  And that's without changing a word.  But the Nicene reading has been the favored one for so long that to question that interpretation of the meaning just bothers people.

It has nothing to do with the trinitarian belief.

[Jim Stiles]

Of what is there to repent from.  I am either saved or I am not.  Repentance can not affect it.

For the 100th time, people who are chosen for salvation repent of their sins.

[danielwoods]

No, it's just a matter of interpretation.  I (and most Mormons) think that John 1:1 means something completely different to the trinitarian belief.  And that's without changing a word.  But the Nicene reading has been the favored one for so long that to question that interpretation of the meaning just bothers people.

It has nothing to do with the trinitarian belief.

 

The only other way to read it (or interpret it as most Mormons) is to think that John is talking about more than one God, which is polytheism, which John clearly teaches against.  

[Jim Stiles]

Then why did you choose to use him as an example?

I still had hope you were here to teach and not score points even if I disagreed with your approach.

That hope is now gone.

Because he was not LDS.

[Anakin7]

         From my LDS Kryptonian Archives on the Western Trinity : Http://eyring.hplx.net/Eyring/Notes/trinity.html

 

        In His Debt/Grace

              Anakin7

Edited December 30, 2014 by Anakin7

[Teancum]

If my interpretation is no more valid than anyone else's interpretation, what is prevent Warren Jeffs (I know that he is the leader of the FLDS and not a member of the LDS church.) from claiming that John 3:16 gives him the right to have sex with underage girls?

Uhhhh right! Such impeccable logic. No wonder you believe one of the most irrational theologies that exists,

[The Nehor]

Well after 120 pages I have no time to read have you answered the question in the thread title yet?

[Calm]

Because he was not LDS.

Because there aren't any other nonLDS out there who could serve as examples....

I really miss mudcat and rhinomelon and other old friends that were so good at teaching how Christ shown in their lives without having to walk over others to raise themselves up.

Edited December 30, 2014 by calmoriah

[Anakin7]

       I miss them as well.

 

In His Debt/Grace

       Anakin7

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

How many beings are a Siamese twin? One or two? 

2. I am not sure how this at all helps your trinity case? They still have 2 bodies too, they are just joined some where, like with the case of my second cousins, they were joined at the head. 2 people 2 bodies. They are separate now.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[danielwoods]

2. I am not sure how this at all helps your trinity case? They still have 2 bodies too, they are just joined some where, like with the case of my second cousins, they were joined at the head. 2 people 2 bodies. They are separate now.

 

I'm not really trying to "help" my case, as it doesn't need my help. God is what he is. I am just trying to explain what he is. 

 

Our understanding of God will always be through our limited understanding. How can God have a personal conversation with literally Trillions of people at the same time? How can he know and be aware of the location and action of every atom in the Universe at the same time as well as having those trillions of conversations at the same time? How can an infinite God, with such unknowable attributes and even difficult to imagine attributes, have and want a relationship with me? 

 

What we know is just the tip of the iceberg showing us how much we really don't know. It blows my mind, and humbles me everyday. 

[ERayR]

The only other way to read it (or interpret it as most Mormons) is to think that John is talking about more than one God, which is polytheism, which John clearly teaches against.  

 

And what you have clearly espoused but deny.  Three persons as God is clearly polytheism irregardless of your mystic proclamations.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

It's your belief, not mine. I don't trust what Joseph Smith taught. I trust what the Biblical text teaches. I also have a feeling that God is not so easily defined. 

So, the bible teaches that God and Jesus are Siamese twins? Is that your argument?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I'm not really trying to "help" my case, as it doesn't need my help. God is what he is. I am just trying to explain what he is. 

 

Our understanding of God will always be through our limited understanding. How can God have a personal conversation with literally Trillions of people at the same time? How can he know and be aware of the location and action of every atom in the Universe at the same time as well as having those trillions of conversations at the same time? How can an infinite God, with such unknowable attributes and even difficult to imagine attributes, have and want a relationship with me? 

 

What we know is just the tip of the iceberg showing us how much we really don't know. It blows my mind, and humbles me everyday. 

Yeah? And you failed quite badly. Explain what essence means?

 

I am not sure how what you said helps with explaining the Trinity. Again, this is like saying green is green because of its infinite nature. It really doesn't explain anything.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Forgiveness of sin does not come from works. Only those who have been chosen for salvation can repent of their sins.

This is a damn lie. Sorry but that is not the gospel of Christ. Where is "chosen for slavation" ever talked about using that language? I cannot find it.

[danielwoods]

And what you have clearly espoused but deny.  Three persons as God is clearly polytheism irregardless of your mystic proclamations.

 

How can one clearly espouse something, but deny it? 

 

If I state that my position is that there is but one almighty God, but the nature of that infinite being is also understood to be three persons in one being, and how this all works is a mystery. Then, you (and Muslims do this as well) ignore my actual statement and force your own understanding into my explanation and say it's "clearly polytheism". 

 

Tell me again how much you like people telling you what you believe, but then why do you do it here? 

[ERayR]

How can one clearly espouse something, but deny it? 

 

If I state that my position is that there is but one almighty God, but the nature of that infinite being is also understood to be three persons in one being, and how this all works is a mystery. Then, you (and Muslims do this as well) ignore my actual statement and force your own understanding into my explanation and say it's "clearly polytheism". 

 

Tell me again how much you like people telling you what you believe, but then why do you do it here? 

 

You have denied that you believe polytheism yet you describe your concept of God as being three people. That is polytheism.  Tell me what I have missed.