Is There Polygamy In Heaven?

[mfbukowski]

A strong contender for creepiest post of the year.

The scariest part is what it reveals about his marriage, and the fact that he would post that.

 

TMI

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm not married yet and have never actually loved a girl yet in my life but I assume I'm the type of person that if I find a girl I love I will want her and never need another. Is that how most married people feel? I'm asking those that have found true love.

[Tacenda]

I'm not married yet and have never actually loved a girl yet in my life but I assume I'm the type of person that if I find a girl I love I will want her and never need another. Is that how most married people feel? I'm asking those that have found true love.

Yes, except for swingers.

[juliann]

Juliann if monogamy is the way then what's going to happen to my 2 uncles in heaven who are sealed to 2 women. And the same goes for Russell M Nelson Dallin Oaks and Howard W Hunter. All sealed in the temple to multiple wives. Do they have to pick between the 2 in heaven and go with 1?

Men should never have to pick...only women should have to do that!   

 

I suggest you think this through before using this unless you intend to prove that you think women are expendable and only men are to be protected from loss.

[juliann]

CFR, Ahab. Scripture. Second request. 

 

 

 

Third request. Provide scripture saying anything close to your claim that our theology says God can only create through sexual contact.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I don't think women are expendable. I'm just asking how things will work out in heaven since there are people nowadays who get sealed to a 2nd wife in the temple.

[juliann]

I don't think women are expendable. I'm just asking how things will work out in heaven since there are people nowadays who get sealed to a 2nd wife in the temple.

 

Probably the same way it works when women get sealed to a second husband.  Some on this board will attest to knowledge of women being sealed twice in the temple by special permission.... .for those who do not accept proxy work for women sealed to all their husbands. Do we really have to keep repeating this month after month? How many times have you heard it now?

[Zakuska]

The bible is full of sexually explicit imagery/contact between the Gods and mortal men/women. In this chapter God again is depicted as being married to 2 Adulteres sisters, like in Jeremiah 3.

Ezekiel 23

19 Yet she increased her whorings, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions.

Here the Godesses' adultures lover has a "member" the size of a donkeys and his ejaculate is like that of a Black Stallion. You can't get much more sexually explicet than that. 8O

And don't forget that divine beings (gods) can have sexual relations with humans and sire offspring.

The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ... The sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. -- Genesis 6:2, 4

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation ... giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh.... Jude 6-7

Did these gods wiggle their noses and these women magically became pregnant? I don't think God would call them adulteress fornicaters and kick them out of heaven if they never had sexual contact with these women.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Zakuska

[Garden Girl]

Third request. Provide scripture saying anything close to your claim that our theology says God can only create through sexual contact.

 

I agree... I have never thought that our spirits were created by sexual contact as we know it.  It is my opinion, belief, that the creation process followed the scriptures that refer to "organizing" intelligences into spirits, who lived in the pre-mortal realms and then would come to this earth as part of our eternal journey.   I believe that if part of our duties in the eternities will be to assist in the creative process, it will follow the "organizing" mode.  Even the Genesis story has God forming (organizing) Adam from the elements of the earth, planting a garden and putting the man that he had formed into the garden.

Isiah 55:8-9 is plain... The Lord is inviting the people to incline their ears, to come unto him, and partake of that which is good... hear, and our  souls shall live...

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

 

IMO, the reproductive process we follow here in this telestial world was established for us... and does not mean this is the same process used by God... and I can't find any scripture that says our process is God's process...

 

GG

 

[Ahab]

I'm not married yet and have never actually loved a girl yet in my life but I assume I'm the type of person that if I find a girl I love I will want her and never need another. Is that how most married people feel? I'm asking those that have found true love.

You're supposed to love everybody by now, even all girls. The one (or ones) you marry are special because you get to have special and exclusive privileges with them, and they with you. Like spending most of your time with them, and theirs with you. And oh yeah, sexual relations. Stuff like that.

Find one soon or else it's just you not knowing what you are missing out on by not having a special someone to spend most of your life with doing all you could be doing together.

[Bobbieaware]

I agree... I have never thought that our spirits were created by sexual contact as we know it.  It is my opinion, belief, that the creation process followed the scriptures that refer to "organizing" intelligences into spirits, who lived in the pre-mortal realms and then would come to this earth as part of our eternal journey.   I believe that if part of our duties in the eternities will be to assist in the creative process, it will follow the "organizing" mode.  Even the Genesis story has God forming (organizing) Adam from the elements of the earth, planting a garden and putting the man that he had formed into the garden.

Isiah 55:8-9 is plain... The Lord is inviting the people to incline their ears, to come unto him, and partake of that which is good... hear, and our  souls shall live...

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

 

IMO, the reproductive process we follow here in this telestial world was established for us... and does not mean this is the same process used by God... and I can't find any scripture that says our process is God's process...

 

GG

 

So I guess in the resurrection, even though by then our bodies will be perfected in every way, the sexual organs that functioned just fine for most of us while here in the fallen state will just be "dead," unproductive, vestigial organs that will just sort exist but will serve no useful purpose? Or perhaps in the resurrection we'll be raised to be like anatomically incorrect Barbie and Ken dolls? But that can't be true because the Proclamation on the Family says the sexual identity of males and females is an important part of eternity and will exist forever. But the thing that seems oddest to me is that if you are correct our resurrected sexual organs will not be perfected in their function but will be sterile and vestigial, serving only to remind us of something that existed in a former life. But that can't be true, because, after all, Jesus is the Son of God. But perhaps he's the only human being who was ever born without his father's seed fertilizing his mother's egg in a sort of divine magic, like a bouncing baby boy being spontaneously generated in a pumpkin patch.

[Garden Girl]

So I guess in the resurrection, even though by then our bodies will be perfected in every way, the sexual organs that functioned just fine for most of us while here in the fallen state will just be "dead," unproductive, vestigial organs that will just sort exist but will serve no useful purpose? Or perhaps in the resurrection we'll be raised to be like anatomically incorrect Barbie and Ken dolls? But that can't be true because the Proclamation on the Family says the sexual identity of males and females is an important part of eternity and will exist forever. But the thing that seems oddest to me is that if you are correct our resurrected sexual organs will not be perfected in their function but will be sterile and vestigial, serving only to remind us of something that existed in a former life. But that can't be true, because, after all, Jesus is the Son of God. But perhaps he's the only human being who was ever born without his father's seed fertilizing his mother's egg in a sort of divine magic, like a bouncing baby boy being spontaneously generated in a pumpkin patch.

 

Dunno... but, without the sarcasm, I don't know and can't say how possibly "creating" spirits would happen.  I don't see it being likely that women would be perpetually pregnant (yikes) because that's what it would take in order to generate millions of spirits following our process (or millions of women).  And in order to follow our process, the male would have little time to do anything else but be a machine (yikes again).  

So I consider that God's ways being higher than our ways, and his thoughts higher than our thoughts (as he has told us), could possibly mean that he does something different, or more advanced, than we do or understand in the creative process.

Whatever God's ways, I do believe that he is the father of our spirits and loves us in ways we can't comprehend (I've told previously about the deep love I felt for everyone I saw after being set apart as an ordinance worker in the temple).  I've always believed that was a glimpse of the way God loves us .

 

GG

Edited November 5, 2015 by Garden Girl

[ERayR]

Jesus, like all of us, had two fathers, and two mothers.  Heavenly parents, and earthly parents, born after the spirit, and born of flesh.

 

Wrong.  His/our Heavenly Father was also his earthly father.

[changed]

Wrong.  His/our Heavenly Father was also his earthly father.

I have heard of the Adam/God theory but have never heard of a Joseph/God theory...   There were two men in Mary's life.

Edited November 5, 2015 by changed

[janderich]

Brigham Young said, "God created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that will ever be." (JD 11:22) If Brigham Young is to be believed there is no other process of creation in heaven or earth except as we see children created here, and yet we must consider what that means.

 

The scriptures teach, "And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Ne 2:22) If we take the conditions in the garden of Eden and extrapolate we can suppose that in the eternal worlds there is no change in state and further that there is no growth as we know it from child to adult. Childhood on this earth has to do with having veils placed over our minds and putting us in a debased condition. There is none of this in the eternities so this whole idea of children growing as they do in this fallen realm appears incorrect. What do we suppose, that little spiritual babies are running around? No, we were from the beginning co-equal (co-eternal if you wish) with God. 

 

There are no spiritual babies running around the heavens. Babies are only created in mortality, and certain types of spiritual progression occur only in a fallen condition. This is the process of growth and development throughout the universe. This is not the first time it has occurred, nor will it be the last. Weaknesses, veils, separation from the eternal, learning by individual experience, and finally taking a higher state. This is how all beings in the universe progress, again and again. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by janderich

[Is Back]

You don't seem to be considering how we will be when we are resurrected. Men will still have body parts and passions, and women will too, so husbands and wives will still be able to have sexual relations with each other then just like we/they can now. And what husbands and wives will do in private moments isn't really something we should talk about in public.

 

I think you've gone too far already.

[Ahab]

Third request. Provide scripture saying anything close to your claim that our theology says God can only create through sexual contact.

What I said was that it ALWAYS takes both a man and a woman to create offspring. I can repeat references from other prophets saying something like that if you wish. But I have never said that sex (if by that you are referring to sexual relations) is always involved and I listed 3 ways that we are aware of right now for how we can do it (in vitro, test tube, and the "old-fashioned" way).

Any scripture stating that we all have Mothers as well as Fathers would corroborate what I am saying

Edited November 5, 2015 by Ahab

[Ahab]

Brigham Young said, "God created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that will ever be." (JD 11:22) If Brigham Young is to be believed there is no other process of creation in heaven or earth except as we see children created here, and yet we must consider what that means.

The scriptures teach, "And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Ne 2:22) If we take the conditions in the garden of Eden and extrapolate we can suppose that in the eternal worlds there is no change in state and further that there is no growth as we know it from child to adult. Childhood on this earth has to do with having veils placed over our minds and putting us in a debased condition. There is none of this in the eternities so this whole idea of children growing as they do in this fallen realm appears incorrect. What do we suppose, that little spiritual babies are running around? No, we were from the beginning co-equal (co-eternal if you wish) with God.

There are no spiritual babies running around the heavens. Babies are only created in mortality, and certain types of spiritual progression occur only in a fallen condition. This is the process of growth and development throughout the universe. This is not the first time it has occurred, nor will it be the last. Weaknesses, veils, separation from the eternal, learning by individual experience, and finally taking a higher state. This is how all beings in the universe progress, again and again.

Trying to extrapolate from the garden of Eden examples is basically trying to begin in the middle to figure out a beginning, so you should go back a little bit futther. Back to before there was a spirit our Father named Michael who he would later name Adam when he placed him in the garden of Eden. So what you should ask is where that person named Michael came from, and what was he like when our Father first gave him that name.

I say he came from his Father and Mother, just as all of us did when we were born as spirits, and you can find testimonies from other prophets who have said the same thing.

[rodheadlee]

What we know for certain about what our existance will be like in the celestial kingdom is literally zilch, except that we might be gods's over our own universes that we have created along with the creation of spirit chidren with our celestial wife (wives). We have no clue how spirit children are made, unless of course you agree with Ed Decker who says we will have "endless celestial sex" with our wives.  

Because of the lack of knowledge we have about it I don't even try to imagine it because I will probably be wrong.

Well Ed has it wrong. You can have endless celestial sex with your wife right now. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by rodheadlee

[The Nehor]

Well Ed has it wrong. You can have endless celestial sex with your wife right now.

What kind of drugs are you using and are you willing to share?

[JLHPROF]

I have never thought that our spirits were created by sexual contact as we know it.  It is my opinion, belief, that the creation process followed the scriptures that refer to "organizing" intelligences into spirits, who lived in the pre-mortal realms and then would come to this earth as part of our eternal journey.   I believe that if part of our duties in the eternities will be to assist in the creative process, it will follow the "organizing" mode.  Even the Genesis story has God forming (organizing) Adam from the elements of the earth, planting a garden and putting the man that he had formed into the garden.

 

I completely disagree.  President Young taught that sexual reproduction is the only means by which people are made.

"God created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that will ever be." (JD 11:22)

 

 

 What do we suppose, that little spiritual babies are running around? No, we were from the beginning co-equal (co-eternal if you wish) with God. 

There are no spiritual babies running around the heavens. Babies are only created in mortality, and certain types of spiritual progression occur only in a fallen condition.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this either.

Remember, the curse placed upon Eve -

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

A clear implication of this is that prior to being fallen conception and bringing forth children was not a hard, sorrowful, or painful experience.  So conceiving and bringing forth children existed prior to the fall which could only refer to premortality.

As it says in the hymn "O My Father"

 In thy holy habitation,

Did my spirit once reside?

In my first primeval childhood

Was I nurtured near thy side?

 

 

 

[hagoth7]

Again... a pretty erotic poem about the creation of the earth and man kind... 

Proverbs 8

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.5 6 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:7 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

 

The word "habitable" there can also be translated as "fertile" so It can be read that God has a "body made of earth with a fertile body part" that Wisdom really likes....

 

Read it as you wish, but in my opinion, that's a bit of a stretch Zak. If "delight" in the first use is supposed to be erotic, and somehow isn't supposed to be erotic in the second use (i.e. "my delights were with the sons of men"), wouldn't it simply make more sense that the word wasn't intended to be erotic in either example?

Edited November 5, 2015 by hagoth7

[hagoth7]

The bible is full of sexually explicit imagery/contact between the Gods and mortal men/women. In this chapter God again is depicted as being married to 2 Adulteres sisters, like in Jeremiah 3.

Ezekiel 23

19 Yet she increased her whorings, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the whore in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions.

 

God was in a covenant relationship with two entities. The kingdom of Israel. And the kingdom of Judah. The whoring referred to there is allegorical. It is referring to the apostasy of God's two kingdoms: the northern kingdom of Israel, referred to symbolically as Aholah and Samaria, and the southern kingdom of Judah, referred to symbolically as Aholibah and Jerusalem.

 

There is nothing implied or stated in that chapter that makes the covenant relationship between God and those two kingdoms sexually explicit. The verbiage of what the two covenant "women" did in their rebellion against him are allegorical.

 

And don't forget that divine beings (gods) can have sexual relations with humans and sire offspring.

The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ... The sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. -- Genesis 6:2, 4

 

That's only one of several possible interpretations.

 

I simply read "sons of God" as a reference to men who believed and were under covenant. Mortal men.

 

I see "daughters of men" meaning women, unbelievers, who were not under covenant.

Edited November 5, 2015 by hagoth7

[JAHS]

What kind of drugs are you using and are you willing to share?

Extra-strength Viagra?  

Edited November 5, 2015 by JAHS

[JAHS]

I completely disagree.  President Young taught that sexual reproduction is the only means by which people are made.

"God created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that will ever be." (JD 11:22)

 

 

 

I don't necessarily agree with this either.

Remember, the curse placed upon Eve -

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 

A clear implication of this is that prior to being fallen conception and bringing forth children was not a hard, sorrowful, or painful experience.  So conceiving and bringing forth children existed prior to the fall which could only refer to premortality.

As it says in the hymn "O My Father"

 In thy holy habitation,

Did my spirit once reside?

In my first primeval childhood

Was I nurtured near thy side?

 

 

 

"I completely disagree.  President Young taught that sexual reproduction is the only means by which people are made."

 

So are you saying that God the Father actually had sexual relations with Mary like mortals do to create Jesus? She was still called a virgin afterwards.