Is There Polygamy In Heaven?

[ALarson]

Well of course it's different.  Mormons believe God to be an exalted human, raised to that stature by following his God in an endless chain of Gods back through eternity.  And that we believe we have to potential to achieve the same station because God is our actual parent and we are in his image and are going through what he went through - mortality.

Or at least I believe it.  Sometimes I wonder if we still believe this as a Church.

That's what I was always taught growing up.  I was also taught that we would have offspring and populate world(s).  But not how we would have the offspring.

 

But it seems this teaching is getting some push back now from some.

[JLHPROF]

That's what I was always taught growing up.  I was also taught that we would have offspring and populate world(s).  But not how we would have the offspring.

 

But it seems this teaching is getting some push back now from some.

 

Yup - it's the mainstreaming effect, even if some debate its existence.

The more protestant/evangelical we become, the more of our unusual doctrine will be set aside.  We already appear far more mainstream protestant than our early Utah brethren ever did except for that trinity thing.

 

I mean, is keeping the Word of Wisdom really enough to keep us a peculiar people in the midst of Babylon?

Because if we got rid of the remaining unusual elements still practiced in the temple I am not sure we'd have anything else left except the WoW to set us apart from any other church.  And there really would be no reason to remain a member over any other Church.

[Zakuska]

God depicted as a Polygamist married to 2 adultures Masterbating sisters...

 

Jeremiah 3

 1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.1

 2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.

 3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

 4 Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth?

 5 Will he reserve his anger for ever? will he keep it to the end? Behold, thou hast spoken and done evil things as thou couldest. 

 6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.

 7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

 10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

 11 And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.

 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

 16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

 17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

 18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

19 But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Zakuska

[juliann]

Wowsers.

 

I'd like to point out that threads like these highlight some of the major differences between the LDS view of God and the Christian view of God.  I know it is a speculative thread and that Ahab doesn't represent the mainstream view on this thread, but the fact that there is a discussion going on about whether or not God will have sex with his multiple wives is mind-blowing to me.  You have to realize that the most basic foundations to this discussion are so far far far away from how mainstream Christians view God.  It would never occur to a mainstream Christian to think about God have sex and making babies in heaven.

 

Ahab, you serve the anti-Mormons well as being an example of what they say about the LDS view of God and heaven.

 

 

 

There is no required belief on any of this. Some people haven't gotten past the 19th century statements that reflect the only way they knew to reproduce at the time. The bottom line is that we believe in deification (which is biblical) and to us God cannot be separated from creation. That is what God does and it isn't past tense. So to be deified is to share in creation. Then the theories start.

 

We still have a lot of men who dream of polygamy and then multiple heavenly mothers get thrown in. But there is zero and I mean zip support for that coming from "living" prophets. We are a church of living prophets not dead ones and that comes from the mouth of the highest levels of leadership. I continually ask for support from any recent living prophet that polygamy will overthrow the Lord's preferred form of marriage (see Proclamation on the Family) and not once has anyone obliged. I have asked for years when this nonsense comes up and all that is provided is statements prior to the Manifestos with testimony that for some reason verses in D&C 132 are always in force even as those testifying discard other scripture that is no longer considered doctrine. Current position is that the celestial marriage 132 speaks of is no longer code for polygamy and that began with a statement from the First Presidency that has not been superceded. Monogamy fulfills all requirements. 

 

However, we do have to account for the biblical evidence of God and his one consort so this wishing for lots of women with benefits in heaven shouldn't be confused with that. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by juliann

[mfbukowski]

We, the one, will still be in distinct bodies. But sure go ahead and do your best to be in the same body as your wife.

Mark 10:7

 7For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

[mfbukowski]

Wowsers.

 

I'd like to point out that threads like these highlight some of the major differences between the LDS view of God and the Christian view of God.  I know it is a speculative thread and that Ahab doesn't represent the mainstream view on this thread, but the fact that there is a discussion going on about whether or not God will have sex with his multiple wives is mind-blowing to me.  You have to realize that the most basic foundations to this discussion are so far far far away from how mainstream Christians view God.  It would never occur to a mainstream Christian to think about God have sex and making babies in heaven.

 

Ahab, you serve the anti-Mormons well as being an example of what they say about the LDS view of God and heaven.

 

Also, Ahab, didn't you once post that in heaven there will be dishwashing and laundry?  I remember something about it a long time ago...

I agree

 

I feel like I am going to get struck by lightning just reading this drivel.

 

Gotta go take a shower.  Yuck.

 

And then we wonder why we have few revelations about heavenly Mother.

[Tsuzuki]

When thinking about polygamy to me it brings up disturbing thoughts of celestial orgies and threesomes and is that how it would be or would polygamy be intimacy between only 2 people at a time? I know personally women who love threesomes with 1 man but the idea of that in heaven just makes me think it's a carnal doctrine and not of God.

Just because something's carnal, that doesn't mean it's not of God. "Carnal" just means having to do with the body, and if God has a body, than He is, by definition, carnal.

[changed]

If we are to have spirit children in the same way our Heavenly Father did, according to past leaders God (and some how together with his wife) took eternally existing intelligences and organized them into spirits. At present we have no idea how it is done.

 

Spencer W. Kimball wrote, "Our spirit matter was eternal and co-existent with God, but it was organized into spirit bodies by our Heavenly Father" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 5, Salt Lake City, 1969)

 

Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, speaking of people's divine origin as children of God, stated, "Through that birth process, self-existing intelligence was organized into individual spirit beings" (Ensign 8 [Nov. 1978]:14)

 

This organization of intelligences into spirit beings doesn't sound like it was done in the same way as we create the bodies for these spirits in mortality.

 

 

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created... I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth - Moses 3

 

It was a "spiritual" creation, not a "physical" creation. 

 

again, spiritual creation involves changing hearts, and baptismal covenants:

 

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

 

Here is a Joseph Smith quote about how we became children of God -

 

 

The first principles of man are self-existent with God. God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits.

link

 

In short, God found us, took pity on us, and adopted us. 

 

the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 

...waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

...chosen to receive the adoption, covenants, promises, and blessings of the gospel...

 

 

 

 

Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed.... = perfect beings do not have children.  They rely on handmaids, they rely on adoption.

 

 

The law of Sarah -

Abraham and Isaac represent Heavenly Father and Jesus.  Sarah represents Heavenly Mother

 

...Sarai was barren; she had no child. ...

 

For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more (adopted) children than she which hath an husband. 

 

And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land

 

What does everyone think all of the symbolism behind all of the barren women in the scriptures is?

Perfect beings are not under the curse...  I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by changed

[VideoGameJunkie]

Juliann if monogamy is the way then what's going to happen to my 2 uncles in heaven who are sealed to 2 women. And the same goes for Russell M Nelson Dallin Oaks and Howard W Hunter. All sealed in the temple to multiple wives. Do they have to pick between the 2 in heaven and go with 1?

[Calm]

Probably the same that will happen to all those women sealed to multiple husbands.

[changed]

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 

 

Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. 

 

I agree that the eternal relationship will be monogamous.  In the handmaid examples we have, the handmaid is cast out....

Mary, the mother of Jesus, was also sealed to Joseph.  I think for the eternities, Mary will be sealed with Joseph, not Heavenly Father - do you agree?  It does not have to be horrible for the handmaid, they will get their monogamous relationships as well. 

 

 

 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Edited November 5, 2015 by changed

[changed]

One more comment. 

 

Why was Jesus baptized?  It was not to take away his sins...

 

The voice from heaven saying "This is my beloved son" is not identified as being the voice of Heavenly Father.  I think it was Heavenly Mother who said this.  I think Jesus' baptism was where he left Mary and became Heavenly Mother's child.  ... The disagreement over the genealogy that breaks out after the apostles hear the heavenly voice declaring who Jesus is the son of...  Mathew gives the genealogy of Joseph linking Jesus with King David and the traditional Jewish line to explain what "this is my beloved son" entails...  Then Luke gives a different genealogy - Luke 3 - the "supposed" son of Joseph? No no - Luke gives a feminine genealogy, the maternal side of the family... this was a maternal voice saying "This is my beloved son"? ending with ... the son of Adam, which was the son of God.  Luke's way of saying Jesus was now the child of Heavenly parents, not earthly parents...

Edited November 5, 2015 by changed

[JAHS]

Wowsers.

 

I'd like to point out that threads like these highlight some of the major differences between the LDS view of God and the Christian view of God.  I know it is a speculative thread and that Ahab doesn't represent the mainstream view on this thread, but the fact that there is a discussion going on about whether or not God will have sex with his multiple wives is mind-blowing to me.  You have to realize that the most basic foundations to this discussion are so far far far away from how mainstream Christians view God.  It would never occur to a mainstream Christian to think about God have sex and making babies in heaven.

 

Ahab, you serve the anti-Mormons well as being an example of what they say about the LDS view of God and heaven.

 

Also, Ahab, didn't you once post that in heaven there will be dishwashing and laundry?  I remember something about it a long time ago...

 

 "You have to realize that the most basic foundations to this discussion are so far far far away from how mainstream Christians view God."

 

Heh. And they accuse us of trying to be mainstream.  

The only thing we know as LDS is that there is a God the Father in Heaven who is the creator of our spirits. There are no cannonized scriptures teaching that there is a mother in heaven, although our prophets have been inspired to teach that their must be one there based on other revelations about our future eternal exltation (the principle that a man and wife sealed together can become like God).  There is absolutely no "official" teachings from any church leaders as to exactly how spirits are created; except perhaps to say they are somehow organized from intelligences. And that since there is a mother in heaven, it probably somehow takes both of them to create the spirits.

But of course even all that is far from mainstream Christian teachiings.

[Ahab]

CFR, Ahab. Scripture. Second request.

At least you aren't demanding that women posters bring you dinner......

If you'll ask me for references of other prophets talking about the same thing I'm talking about then I'll scurry around on the internet desperately trying to find you some.

Just don't ask me for references of prophets saying things that I've never said. No. Please. Don't ever do that, again. Not even if you would offer to cook me my dinner.

[JulieM]

Mary, the mother of Jesus, was also sealed to Joseph.

Where have you read this? Are you saying that Joseph is sealed to Jesus Christ as his Father? Please explain. Thanks!

[Ahab]

Wowsers.

I'd like to point out that threads like these highlight some of the major differences between the LDS view of God and the Christian view of God. I know it is a speculative thread and that Ahab doesn't represent the mainstream view on this thread, but the fact that there is a discussion going on about whether or not God will have sex with his multiple wives is mind-blowing to me. You have to realize that the most basic foundations to this discussion are so far far far away from how mainstream Christians view God. It would never occur to a mainstream Christian to think about God have sex and making babies in heaven.

You make it sound so...dirty. As if sexual relations between a husband and his wife, or wives, is a bad thing. But like I still tell my wife, sometimes: It's not a bad thing because we are married now.

Ahab, you serve the anti-Mormons well as being an example of what they say about the LDS view of God and heaven.

When they're right, they're right. I like to give them credit for being right when they are right because, you know, most of the time they are wrong or just pervert the truth to make it sound...dirty.

Also, Ahab, didn't you once post that in heaven there will be dishwashing and laundry? I remember something about it a long time ago...

Yeah. Good memory. I was talking about how we will still wear clothes and eat food with dishes, sometimes, so we will still need to be able to clean up from time to time.

Those things don't get clean all by themselves, don't cha know.

[The Nehor]

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 

 

Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. 

 

I agree that the eternal relationship will be monogamous.  In the handmaid examples we have, the handmaid is cast out....

Mary, the mother of Jesus, was also sealed to Joseph.  I think for the eternities, Mary will be sealed with Joseph, not Heavenly Father - do you agree?  It does not have to be horrible for the handmaid, they will get their monogamous relationships as well. 

 

 

 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

So did you just make up this whole handmaiden doctrine entirely on your own?

[The Nehor]

If you'll ask me for references of other prophets talking about the same thing I'm talking about then I'll scurry around on the internet desperately trying to find you some.

Just don't ask me for references of prophets saying things that I've never said. No. Please. Don't ever do that, again. Not even if you would offer to cook me my dinner.

Are you shooting for misogyny or is this more a subconscious thing?

[The Nehor]

You make it sound so...dirty. As if sexual relations between a husband and his wife, or wives, is a bad thing. But like I still tell my wife, sometimes: It's not a bad thing because we are married now.

A strong contender for creepiest post of the year.

[Calm]

"I agree that the eternal relationship will be monogamous.  In the handmaid examples we have, the handmaid is cast out...."

So the divine way of doing things is to cast aside the mother of your child after she is no longer necessary?

Not buying it.

[changed]

Where have you read this? Are you saying that Joseph is sealed to Jesus Christ as his Father? Please explain. Thanks!

 

Jesus, like all of us, had two fathers, and two mothers.  Heavenly parents, and earthly parents, born after the spirit, and born of flesh.

Edited November 5, 2015 by changed

[changed]

"I agree that the eternal relationship will be monogamous.  In the handmaid examples we have, the handmaid is cast out...."

So the divine way of doing things is to cast aside the mother of your child after she is no longer necessary?

Not buying it.

 

Your current children will one day be your brothers and sisters. 

 

"“Hagar, the bondwoman, bore Ishmael; and Sarah, the freewoman, brought forth Isaac. Ishmael was born after the flesh, while Isaac, as a child of promise, came forth after the Spirit. Hagar is thus made to represent the old covenant, the law of Moses, the covenant under which men were subject to the bondage of sin; while Sarah symbolizes the new covenant, the gospel, the covenant under which men are made free, free from bondage and sin through Christ." -

https://www.lds.org/manual/new-testament-student-manual/galatians/chapter-43-galatians?lang=eng

 

“But it is now, as it was then, those born after the flesh war against those born of the Spirit. And as God rejected Ishmael and accepted Isaac, so does he now reject those who cleave to the law of Moses and accept those who turn to Christ” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 2:477–78).

 

All children and earthly parents will cast away the natural creatures, and enter into their new families...

[JLHPROF]

Jesus, like all of us, had two fathers, and two mothers.  Heavenly parents, and earthly parents.

 

Except the father of his spirit and the father of his body were the same being - hence the Only Begotten title.

 

So really he had one father and a heavenly mother and an earthly mother who were both married to his father (I would presume).

[changed]

So did you just make up this whole handmaiden doctrine entirely on your own?

 

 

I have never questioned why our mother in heaven seems veiled to us, for I believe the Lord has his reasons for revealing as little as he has on that subject. Furthermore, I believe we know much more about our eternal nature than we think we do; and it is our sacred obligation to express our knowledge, to teach it to our young sisters and daughters, and in so doing to strengthen their faith and help them through the counterfeit confusions of these difficult latter days. Let me point out some examples.

The Lord has not placed us in this lone and dreary world without a blueprint for living. In Doctrine and Covenants 52, we read the Lord’s words: “I will give unto you a pattern in all things, that ye may not be deceived.” (V. 14; italics added.) He certainly includes us women in that promise. He has given us patterns in the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price; and he has given us patterns in the temple ceremony. As we study these patterns, we must continually ask, “Why does the Lord choose to say these particular words and present it in just this way?” We know he uses metaphors and symbols and parables and allegories to teach us of his eternal ways. We have all recognized the relationship between Abraham and Isaac that so parallels God’s anguish over the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus Christ. But, as women, do we stretch ourselves and also ask about Sarah’s travail in this experience as well? We need to search in this manner, and we need always to look for deeper meaning. We should look for parallels and symbols. We should look for themes and motifs such as those we would find in a Bach or a Mozart composition, and we should look for repeated patterns.

- “One Thing Needful”: Becoming Women of Greater Faith in Christ, Sister Patricia T. Holland

[changed]

Except the father of his spirit and the father of his body were the same being - hence the Only Begotten title.

 

So really he had one father and a heavenly mother and an earthly mother who were both married to his father (I would presume).

 

He had an earthly step-father who loved him, and brought him up.  I think all of his parents were very close to one another - sealed to one another.  That would be the ideal scenario right?

 

Yes, Jesus was the only begotten - which means the rest of us are not begotten.  I think we really do become children through baptism, through adoption.