ERayR Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Did anyone hear the news report of LDS swingers? It's happening in several areas of Utah. I'm sorry, but multiple husbands and multiple wives sounds like swinging to me. It's no wonder my testimony crashed and died on the knowledge of JS's polygamy. I'm sorry Tacenda but you are in error again. What you are talking about here is not JS's polygamy. 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 2, 2015 Author Posted November 2, 2015 Is the reason why men can have multiple wives, but women can't have multiple husbands because 1 man can get multiple women pregnant at once and have lots of children, but 1 woman can only get pregnant by 1 man at a time? That's the only reason I can think of.
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Here's an interesting article explaining why polygamy may not be part of the Celestial Kingdom. http://www.gregtrimble.com/what-every-mormon-really-needs-to-know-about-polygamy/ The real question isn't "is there polygamy in heaven". It's "is there NEW polygamy in heaven"? If we believe in eternal marriage and the polygamy was at least approved by God or even commanded by God as the scriptures seem to indicate then all those polygamous sealings (that were performed correctly) will unavoidably result in polygamy in heaven. Shouldn't really be a question for any Church member that believes in eternal families and in the scriptures. However, the question as to whether "polygamy will be lived there by those who didn't live it here" is much more interesting. As VGJ asks, would we live it there if it was required? Christ taught that after the resurrection (that is, after the final judgment at the end of the Millennium when no more ordinances are performed) that we are no longer able to marry or be given in marriage.Also D&C 132:16-17 seem to indicate the same principle. Decisions, decisions, eternal decisions....
JLHPROF Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Is the reason why men can have multiple wives, but women can't have multiple husbands because 1 man can get multiple women pregnant at once and have lots of children, but 1 woman can only get pregnant by 1 man at a time? That's the only reason I can think of. If you take that rather crude biological explanation and then apply gospel doctrine and principle to it, you may find your answer.
JAHS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 I understand there will be no jealousy for exalted beings, so maybe I'm just thinking with a mortal brain. The topic still lingers on my mind though because I don't know what to expect in the eternities and I don't know which is correct. It's changed over the years so I don't know if anyone knows. It's confusing and I like to imagine what the Celestial Kingdom life will be like and have no idea whether to imagine having 1 companion I hopefully get to sit next to enthroned with exaltation or multiple wives. I dunno, I like to think ahead, so I get confused when thinking about exaltation.What we know for certain about what our existance will be like in the celestial kingdom is literally zilch, except that we might be gods's over our own universes that we have created along with the creation of spirit chidren with our celestial wife (wives). We have no clue how spirit children are made, unless of course you agree with Ed Decker who says we will have "endless celestial sex" with our wives. Because of the lack of knowledge we have about it I don't even try to imagine it because I will probably be wrong.
Jeanne Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Did anyone hear the news report of LDS swingers? It's happening in several areas of Utah. I'm sorry, but multiple husbands and multiple wives sounds like swinging to me. It's no wonder my testimony crashed and died on the knowledge of JS's polygamy.This. One of the very reasons that the Celestial Kingdom didn't appeal to me. I would want to be with family of course..but all the other stuff..worlds,,sharing a husband just wasn't what I wanted. So.just hoping a nice visit and a chat with Mom and Dad,,being friends with my siblings..and just being regular folk is fine with me,
Jeanne Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 If you take that rather crude biological explanation and then apply gospel doctrine and principle to it, you may find your answer.But it is true and sad at the same time isn't it? The thing is..nothing about love is ever mentioned.
Ahab Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Is the reason why men can have multiple wives, but women can't have multiple husbands because 1 man can get multiple women pregnant at once and have lots of children, but 1 woman can only get pregnant by 1 man at a time? That's the only reason I can think of.The "can't" is debatable but yes generally that is the line of thought for those who think women won't have more than one husband after resurrection, or at least not more than one she will have children with after resurrection. The Father is considered the head of his family, even in a righteous marriage where a husband/father acts in full partnership with his wife (or wives), so it's very important to be able to know who the father/husband is in a marriage. Having only one, regardless of how many wives/mothers, makes it very easy to know that. My wife was a widow when I married her and I'm okay with the idea that she HAD a husband before we married, and I'm also okay with the fact that she was sealed to him before we married and maybe (who knows?) will continue to be sealed to him in some way forever throughout eternity. I mainly just don't want there to be any complications AT ALL when it comes to figuring out which of her children will be mine. Edited November 2, 2015 by Ahab
JAHS Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Is the reason why men can have multiple wives, but women can't have multiple husbands because 1 man can get multiple women pregnant at once and have lots of children, but 1 woman can only get pregnant by 1 man at a time? That's the only reason I can think of.This has probably already been mentioned, but what are the odds that there will be exactly one exalted woman for each exalted man? My guess is that there are far more worthy women than men who will be exalted. Who will they be sealed to if not to a man who is already sealed to someone else?
Tacenda Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 But it is true and sad at the same time isn't it? The thing is..nothing about love is ever mentioned.Good point!
Tacenda Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The "can't" is debatable but yes generally that is the line of thought for those who think women won't have more than one husband after resurrection, or at least not more than one she will have children with after resurrection. The Father is considered the head of his family, even in a righteous marriage where a husband/father acts in full partnership with his wife (or wives), so it's very important to be able to know who the father/husband is in a marriage. Having only one, regardless of how many wives/mothers, makes it very easy to know that. My wife was a widow when I married her and I'm okay with the idea that she HAD a husband before we married, and I'm also okay with the fact that she was sealed to him before we married and maybe (who knows?) will continue to be sealed to him in some way forever throughout eternity. I mainly just don't want there to be any complications AT ALL when it comes to figuring out which of her children will be mine.What, she has no choice which husband she'll be with, and the children don't either? Another reason I dislike the CK. The only reason I ever thought I'd like to go there is the carrot on the stick of it being my only way to live with God/Jesus.
VideoGameJunkie Posted November 3, 2015 Author Posted November 3, 2015 I'm not sure if there will be so many more women than men in the CK because infant mortality rate throughout the history of the world used to be so much higher for males so you got all those guaranteed exaltation who died before age 8.
Freedom Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Us trying to figure out what will happen with all these temple marriages in this life is like a bunch of 5 year old children discussing what marriage and intimacy is like. We have no idea what the next life will be like. As I understand it, there is a constant flow of people into the celestial kingdom from an infinite number of worlds. There will be no shortage of wives for men or husbands for women. We just have no inkling of what a celestial relationship is like any more than a 5 year old can describe sexual attraction. Will David have all his wives? What is a husband and wife relationship in the celestial kingdom? We don't even grasp what eternity is. 4
JLHPROF Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Constant flow into the Celestial Kingdom from other worlds? Not sure about that one since some prophets have taught that this earth will be our Celestial Kingdom.
Steve-o Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The idea that there is polygamy in heaven is probably the issue that causes my DW more stress than any other teaching. We just kind of brush it aside and hope it's not true. It would have been nice if the recent mother in heaven essay could have addressed this issue.
Ahab Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) What, she has no choice which husband she'll be with, and the children don't either? Another reason I dislike the CK. The only reason I ever thought I'd like to go there is the carrot on the stick of it being my only way to live with God/Jesus.She had the choice when I asked her to marry me. We talked about it, while she let me know she still loves him deeply. And I do understand, having loved other women before I met my wife and having relationships with them. So she made her choice with the understanding that we were moving on together with neither one of us giving up anything we had had in the past.Re-read the last sentence in the post you responded to here while praying for wisdom and intelligence with all of your heart. Edited November 3, 2015 by Ahab 1
Ahab Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Us trying to figure out what will happen with all these temple marriages in this life is like a bunch of 5 year old children discussing what marriage and intimacy is like. We have no idea what the next life will be like. As I understand it, there is a constant flow of people into the celestial kingdom from an infinite number of worlds. There will be no shortage of wives for men or husbands for women. We just have no inkling of what a celestial relationship is like any more than a 5 year old can describe sexual attraction. Will David have all his wives? What is a husband and wife relationship in the celestial kingdom? We don't even grasp what eternity is.Fortunately ignorance isn't contagious, and there is a way to know things that some people still do not know. Intelligence is an awesome thing. 1
ERayR Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 What, she has no choice which husband she'll be with, and the children don't either? Another reason I dislike the CK. The only reason I ever thought I'd like to go there is the carrot on the stick of it being my only way to live with God/Jesus. You do have a talent for jumping to erroneous conclusions. I am going out on a limb here but there is nowhere is it said they have no choice. 1
JLHPROF Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The idea that there is polygamy in heaven is probably the issue that causes my DW more stress than any other teaching. We just kind of brush it aside and hope it's not true. I am guessing you mean "required new polygamy in heaven".Because any member who accepts D&C 132 and eternal marriage should realize that there will be polygamous families in heaven, or else they would have to doubt all eternal sealings as valid. It would have been nice if the recent mother in heaven essay could have addressed this issue. Unless something authoritative has been revealed, what would they have included that they didn't? They weren't going to include speculative teaching in an official church essay.
ERayR Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 The idea that there is polygamy in heaven is probably the issue that causes my DW more stress than any other teaching. We just kind of brush it aside and hope it's not true. It would have been nice if the recent mother in heaven essay could have addressed this issue. Do you mean required polygamy? As in not wanting to, but required to. Please note a basic precept is that of choice. 3
Steve-o Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I am guessing you mean "required new polygamy in heaven".Because any member who accepts D&C 132 and eternal marriage should realize that there will be polygamous families in heaven, or else they would have to doubt all eternal sealings as valid. Unless something authoritative has been revealed, what would they have included that they didn't? They weren't going to include speculative teaching in an official church essay.Required polygamy would be a problem. She has a testimony of eternal marriage but not eternal plural marriage.My father once told her to "get used to the idea" but that didn't really help much.
HappyJackWagon Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 Required polygamy would be a problem. She has a testimony of eternal marriage but not eternal plural marriage.My father once told her to "get used to the idea" but that didn't really help much.plural marriage and eternal marriage do not need to be considered as synonymous. Unless the church can explain the how's and why's of eternal plural marriage I'm very comfortable rejecting the teaching. The responsibility is on the church to explain the doctrine and why it's essential. Until then, I'm a happy monogomist both in this world and in the next life.
KevinG Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 One thing that disturbs me in most discussions about polygamy is how sex seems to be exaggerated as the reason for marriage and sealings. While it is important to have healthy intimacy, and of course intimacy is going to be a very delicate subject when it comes to plural marriage, there are many reasons to be sealed that have nothing to do with procreation and physical intimacy. I still think we must master chastity, and unselfish monogamy, before we can begin to comprehend polygamy. I cringe when modern Saints put down our fore-bearers for practicing a law revealed and required by God.
HappyJackWagon Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 One thing that disturbs me in most discussions about polygamy is how sex seems to be exaggerated as the reason for marriage and sealings. While it is important to have healthy intimacy, and of course intimacy is going to be a very delicate subject when it comes to plural marriage, there are many reasons to be sealed that have nothing to do with procreation and physical intimacy. I still think we must master chastity, and unselfish monogamy, before we can begin to comprehend polygamy. I cringe when modern Saints put down our fore-bearers for practicing a law revealed and required by God.I think it is the division of emotional connection and unity between husband and wife is the truly troubling piece. Intimacy is only one manifestation of that problem. 2
KevinG Posted November 3, 2015 Posted November 3, 2015 I think it is the division of emotional connection and unity between husband and wife is the truly troubling piece. Intimacy is only one manifestation of that problem. My observation is that every time we added a relationship (child) to our large family, it multiplied the existing relationships. It was not addition, or division. As testified to in their own journals and histories, polygamous families who overcame the difficult challenge of sharing intimacy, selfishness, and lack of time and resources, gained compensating blessings. I don't see polygamy is better or worse than monogamy. I see it as a different challenge, with different blessings, required at a different time for the Saints. 1
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