teddyaware Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I didn't say positive, I said acceptable. Again, it's dependent on who you talk to. Of course, coming from the position of a member of the LDS church, lust is not positive. But there are plenty of people in the world who have no problem with the idea of lusting after their wife. And some people may not see the difference between lust and passion. Now, it seems to me that your disagreement with my analogy based on me saying sin could be seen in a less than evil light by some and not by others is disingenuous, unless we accept that homosexuality is morally neutral as well. Some would say yes, some would say no, exactly like some would say yes, some would say no for lust. The Lord's perspective on what and what does not constitute lust is the correct one; it doesn't matter what the unenlightened may think about it. It is the very idea that same sex attraction is considered by many to be an inborn, morally neutral human attribute that causes some (including several online gay advocates) to surmise that Elsa's magical power is a metaphor for being gay. The idea is that it's perfectly normal, natural and benign, and that only the unenlightened and uncompassionate would ever think there's anything at all wrong with it is what inspires the notion of a gay subtext. Please understand that I honestly don't pretend to know what was on Jennifer Lee's mind when she wrote the script for Frozen and if the supposed gay subtext of the movie is really present. I find this discussion very interesting because Elsa's humiliation would be similar to condemning a man who possesses inborn, superior physical strength that's far outside the bounds of the ordinary. Can a human being be considered evil, and someone to be very ashamed of, just because he's naturally physically strong? Only in a crazy world of overwrought superstition would our extraordinarily strong man be considered someone who needs to be imprisoned and hid from public view. So what we need to look for when trying to identify a proper and workable real-life simile for Elsa's magical power is something that is actually morally neutral (at least considered to be so by the secular world) but is simultaneously unreasonably and unfairly frowned upon by people who are emotionally bound to outdated social ideas. Edited February 20, 2014 by teddyaware
Tacenda Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) http://thismormongirl.blogspot.com/2014/02/frozen-in-thought-supposed-gay-agenda.html This is another blog that responds to the first blog, from another Mormon girl. Edited February 20, 2014 by Tacenda
jkwilliams Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 This thread reminds me that I have some errands to do for the gay agenda. Hopefully I'll have time after work.
The Nehor Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 As a member of the cabal of Twelve Apostates for Gay Agendaing I can assure you that we did not support this film. The last major product we actually funded was the Full House TV show. Donations have been down....what can I say?
mormonnewb Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 http://thismormongirl.blogspot.com/2014/02/frozen-in-thought-supposed-gay-agenda.html This is another blog that responds to the first blog, from another Mormon girl. I loved this post! It was not only linear and cogent, but it also demonstrates how you can read ANYTHING into a movie if you try hard enough. The author makes a very convincing argument that Anna -- the sister -- is a Christ figure in the movie. It was perfectly "symbolized" in a scene where Anna is knocking at Elsa's door, asking to be let in and promising that all will be okay so long as they face it together. Even more compelling is the fact that Anna literally gives her life as a ransom for Elsa's sins by stepping in front of a blow meant for Elsa. Can you think of anything that more perfectly "symbolizes" the atonement? Yet, this author is clear to point out that she is NOT making the leap to conclude that this movie is a secret Christian plot to indoctrinate children into the Christian religion. Why? Because it is DISNEY MOVIE. And I think we all know what Disney's true agenda is ... MONEY. This is what they're always after. In fact, as I understand corporate law, that is their only permissible agenda -- maximizing shareholder value. And they are VERY good at pursuing this agenda. However, I encourage skeptics like teddyaware to see the movie for themselves. In fact, my advice is to see it a few dozen times. And don't go to a matinee showing either. The true symbolism can only be seen during the $9 evening showing. Also, don't skimp on the $40-50 of popcorn, drinks and candy. The creators of this movie crafted their message to be most receptive when blended with the crunching of popcorn and the slurping of Coca Cola (caffeine-free, of course). Sure, it may cost a few hundred dollars to finally "get it" but is there really any cost too great in order to stop the "gay agenda"? WWWBMW?(What Would Well-Behaved Mormon Woman Do?)
The Nehor Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 Hercules is the LDS story writ large. A Son of God is cast down to earth through the manipulations of an evil being. He is sent to parents kid and dear and then grows up an outcast for being different and believing there is something more. He makes contact with his Father and is given a magical cloud horse (obviously the Holy Ghost) and goes out to prove that he is worthy to return to the presence of his Father. Hades/Satan tries him by throwing horrible beasts (sins) up against him and he prevails. He falls in love (sensing the need for eternal marriage).Satan finishes his plans and releases the primordial powers (Azathoth, Yog-Sothoth, and their ilk) who rise up and storm Olympus (Kolob) and imprison Zeus and the other gods (God and his angels). The Son then charges into battle and liberates Olympus and together they defeat and seal away the dread powers (probably with an Elder Sign). Then he dives into hell (temple work) to rescue his girl. Then he realizes divinity is not all it is cracked up to be and chooses a lesser kingdom (probably Terrestrial) so he can stay with his girl.Gospel in a nutshell. 1
cinepro Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Can anyone explain to my why the blogging grandmother would continue to take her grandchildren to see this film even after she was convinced it was part of the "gay agenda"? That's really weird to me. If I see a movie (or even read a reliable review about a movie) and have concerns about its suitability for children, then I'm sure not taking my kids to see it! Edited February 20, 2014 by cinepro 1
Mark Beesley Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 I don't know if there's a secret gay agenda in the movie Frozen or if there isn't. I simply wanted some input from others as to what they think Elsa's uncontrollable magic power might symbolize. What sort of potentially destructive, shame inducing, private human struggle does Elsa's uncontrollable magic power represent?It's a friggin' movie . . . er, an ANIMATED movie about the universal uncontrollable urge we all have to sin, which alienates us from God, and absent the unconditional love of a Savior, we are trapped in a frozen wasteland. Good grief, it's also about loving a person in spite of what their personal struggles may be, without necessarily embracing the struggle itself. IF it is about gays accepting who they are, GREAT. But in the end, it's about a girl with magic power, and if anyone should be concerned, it's those who think the witches have a hidden agenda. 1
teddyaware Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 It's a friggin' movie . . . er, an ANIMATED movie about the universal uncontrollable urge we all have to sin, which alienates us from God, and absent the unconditional love of a Savior, we are trapped in a frozen wasteland. Good grief, it's also about loving a person in spite of what their personal struggles may be, without necessarily embracing the struggle itself. IF it is about gays accepting who they are, GREAT. But in the end, it's about a girl with magic power, and if anyone should be concerned, it's those who think the witches have a hidden agenda.LOL! That first line is funny! Now perhaps you're the one who's reading more into the movie than what the author intended. Does the movie directly or indirectly mention sin, God the Father and the unconditional love of Christ? Or are these things you've just superimposed onto the plot based on your own experiences as a Latter-day Saint? It would be interesting to know if author Jennifer Lee is a believing Christian and if in Frozen she deliberately presented the Gospel in allegory. If in this movie she did present the Gospel in allegory, I'll stand corrected.
Mark Beesley Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 LOL! That first line is funny! Now perhaps you're the one who's reading more into the movie than what the author intended. Does the movie directly or indirectly mention sin, God the Father and the unconditional love of Christ? Or are these things you've just superimposed onto the plot based on your own experiences as a Latter-day Saint? It would be interesting to know if author Jennifer Lee is a believing Christian and if in Frozen she deliberately presented the Gospel in allegory. If in this movie she did present the Gospel in allegory, I'll stand corrected.I couldn't read anything into the movie . . . It put me to sleep. I was offering a perspective based on your query. No, the movie never mentions sin. But, I am pretty sure it never "directly or indirectly" mentioned gays or lesbians, so if that is the touchstone for "hidden" meanings, Sister Skaggs should sleep more soundly.
teddyaware Posted February 20, 2014 Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I couldn't read anything into the movie . . . It put me to sleep. I was offering a perspective based on your query. No, the movie never mentions sin. But, I am pretty sure it never "directly or indirectly" mentioned gays or lesbians, so if that is the touchstone for "hidden" meanings, Sister Skaggs should sleep more soundly. This controversy really fascinates me. I just finished perusing the web under "Frozen movie Christian" as search criteria and was shocked to see how many commenting folks out there (without any help at all from our Well Behaved Mormon Woman) believe the movie is an allegory for the gay rights agenda. Many of these people said they caught on almost right away and that it offended them, especially in light of the fact that some claim Frozen is a Christian allegory. None of this proves anything of course, but it's truly remarkable to see how many folks came away with the same impression without any prodding. Edited February 20, 2014 by teddyaware
AddamS Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 What sort of potentially destructive, shame inducing, private human struggle does Elsa's uncontrollable magic power represent? Overbearing modesty? 1
Senator Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Overbearing modesty? Try again When Elsa finally let down her hair, my teenage son jokingly remarked, "Wow, she's hot!" ETA: Maybe this would be applicable to the modesty thread. If women only knew what their hair does to the minds of young men!!! Edited February 21, 2014 by Senator
cinepro Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 There are also themes of bestiality which are less subtle than anything having to do with SSM.
mormonnewb Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 None of this proves anything of course, but it's truly remarkable to see how many folks came away with the same impression without any prodding. No prodding? If you saw these comments on an open message board, there may be a fair amount of "me too" going on. Also, as Christians, we seem to have rather overactive gaydar (i.e., Sesame Street, Teletubbies, et al). I wouldn't be surprised if there was a similar thread on the last five Disney movie releases. In fact, I entered "hidden messages disney movies" into Google and it's still trying calculate all of the hits.
Mark Beesley Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 This controversy really fascinates me.Apparently. :-)
Daniel2 Posted February 21, 2014 Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) A great blog post on this topic that I received from My Mansfield, president of the LDS gay group " Northstar":Gasp! There ARE Hidden Messages in Disney’s Frozen!https://m.facebook.com/tymansfield/posts/10101301547001349?src=email_notifI’ve seen a lot of posts about the hidden messages in the Disney movie Frozen. Make no mistake about it, there most certainly are hidden messages in the movie. But perhaps they are much deeper than you think…For those that haven’t seen the movie, here’s a little background: Elsa, princess of Arendelle, has a magical ability to create ice and snow. Her parents forbid her from using this power so she doesn’t hurt anyone. After years of keeping her powers to herself, Elsa decides to “let it go.” She flees the kingdom of Arendelle and builds a solitary ice palace in the mountains—a place she can truly be herself.Some have claimed that Elsa’s decision to “Let It Go” and unleash her powers is akin to someone coming out of the closet and announcing their homosexuality. While that’s a perfectly valid interpretation, I personally didn’t interpret it that way. You see, after struggling with chronic depression for almost twenty years, I saw a reflection of myself in Elsa’s inner turmoil. The feeling of being trapped, alone, misunderstood, and isolated in solitary confinement? Yeah, that’s depression.Then again, after years of working with troubled youth in Arizona, I can see how Elsa’s struggle might speak to those who have dealt with bullying or abuse. But it could also be appreciated by children who want to please their parents, but simply have different career and education goals.My point is this: good art should have multiple meanings and interpretations. To declare one interpretation as the “correct” interpretation is to disenfranchise its value for everyone else. Truly, art is filled with meaning. Our task is to extract the best interpretation for ourselves and help others do the same.Because (and correct me if I’m wrong) with that mindset, couldn’t a lot of Disney movies have positive, hidden messages? Remember that scene inThe Lion King when Simba’s father appears to him in the heavens and tells him “You have forgotten who you are and so have forgotten me.” Isn’t that an allusion to each of us being a child of God? Doesn’t Aladdin show us that there is royalty and nobility within each of us? Isn’t Beauty and the Beast about the transformative power of repentance?And what about The Chronicles of Narnia? (Also a Disney movie.) Isn’t Aslan universally understood to be a symbol for Christ?But why stop with Disney movies? Is Harry Potter’s sacrifice for his friends in The Deathly Hallows a symbol for the Christian sacrifice? Isn’t Gandalf’s triumphant return a symbol for the Resurrection? Is the One Ring a symbol for the sinful nature of man? Isn’t Superman’s origin remarkably similar to the story of Moses?Again, art is filled with messages. What messages will you choose derive from it?All that being said, the message inFrozen which I saw is the ultimate power of family and love. For although Elsa’s song preaches “No right, no wrong, no rules for me,” that philosophy—like her frozen palace—ultimately crumbles when she realizes that her isolation has put her loved ones in danger. When Elsa’s sister, Anna, risks her own life to save Elsa’s, the spell is broken.The wintry spells of my depression have been broken many times by the love of family and friends. If the “hidden message” of Frozen is learning to reach out and love individuals that are struggling with feelings of isolation, then I wholeheartedly support this “hidden message.” Edited February 21, 2014 by Daniel2
cinepro Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 Looks like the Christan Film and Television Commission didn't get the memo. Their "Movieguide" group recently awarded Frozen as the "Best Movie For Families" in 2013. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/shark-tank-duck-dynasty-bible-678564
Buckeye Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 There are also themes of bestiality which are less subtle than anything having to do with SSM. What? So you mean "don't let the frostbite bite" is not a warning to avoid being turned gay?
LoudmouthMormon Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Josh Weed's response: My response to Well Behaved Mormon Woman I liked it, especially the comment that great art lends itself to numerous interpretations. I loved the movie. Let it go: A song about dumping horrible painful coping mechanisms that aren't working. "conceal, don't feel, don't let them know" - the reason behind it is to keep from causing pain to others, but what a horrible way to live life. Unfortunately, the thing which needs to be coped with is still present. So although letting go of the bad coping mechanism feels great, there's still a need for a better coping mechanism. Because whereas we all have occasional bouts of emotional excess, Elsa's bouts place others in mortal danger. So she needs a way to deal with that. Hence, the rest of the movie. At the end of the movie, she's got a new coping mechanism - let loved ones in, feel and express love for them. Not exactly sure what this means for her next bout of emotional excess. The hope, is that the next time she gets all worked up, the negative will be tempered with all the positive in her life, and she won't end up sending ice daggers through her loved ones by mistake. But at least there's hope. The loved ones all know the risk and remain loved ones. The townspeople know the risk and are still willing to have her as queen. Hmmm - a person learning to cope with an extreme destructive reaction to life's stresses, without medication or therapy or parents. A sister loving her despite the fact that she literally risks injury to do so. Yeah, I may not be very close to such a situation, but I know lots of people who have similar struggles. (Actually, I think Olaf may count as therapy.) Edited March 12, 2014 by LoudmouthMormon 1
katherine the great Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 I just barely saw the movie and I thought it was ADORABLE! I think this blogging grandma needs to get her head examined.
Bikeemikey Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I just barely saw the movie and I thought it was ADORABLE! I think this blogging grandma needs to get her head examined.Agreed! My daughter is two and sings let in go all day long.Maybe she will grow up and, as cinepro noted, fall in love with a reindeer. I don't know.
wenglund Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) If you play the soundtrack backwards... Thanks, -Wade Englund= Edited March 13, 2014 by wenglund 1
Truth 101 Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I didn't read through this whole topic but I don't get it. I actually just happened to watch Frozen 2 days ago and loved it because I really enjoyed Tangled. Seriously though, how in any way is Frozen about a girl coming out? Like because Elsa locked herself away?
Rivers Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 When Elsa started singing Let It Go, I did think about gays coming out of the closet. But who knows what was on the mind of the song writer.
Recommended Posts