"on Resurrection Morning You Will Rise With Normal Attractions For The Opposite Sex."

[JAHS]

Relating to the two recent threads on same sex marriage, Elder Bruce C. Hafen made the following remarks a few years ago while addressing members of Evergreen:

 

 "If you are faithful, on resurrection morning -- and maybe even before then -- you will rise with normal attractions for the opposite sex.""

 

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13377659

 

If this really is true dose it provide any degree of comfort to the gay active member of the church, to know that during the millennium they will be able to marry and have children at that time? 

 

[thesometimesaint]

Relating to the two recent threads on same sex marriage, Elder Bruce C. Hafen made the following remarks a few years ago while addressing members of Evergreen:

 

 "If you are faithful, on resurrection morning -- and maybe even before then -- you will rise with normal attractions for the opposite sex.""

 

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13377659

 

If this really is true dose it provide any degree of comfort to the gay active member of the church, to know that during the millennium they will be able to marry and have children at that time? 

 

I don't know if or how much before it would be. Currently we have no prohibitions on feelings(temptations). Are the Gods tempted? I don't know, but Christ during his mortal ministry was tempted in all things. He just didn't give into them.

[teddyaware]

In the April 2013 conference, Elder Bednar taught that the fallen nature is the source of sexual desires that exist outside of the will of God. Therefore it would seem that in the resurrection, when men and women are redeemed and rescued from the fallen nature, the fallen nature will be healed and then its ungodly propensities (something we all have to deal with in one form or another) will become a thing of the past.    

[JAHS]

In the April 2013 conference, Elder Bednar taught that the fallen nature is the source of sexual desires that exist outside of the will of God. Therefore it would seem that in the resurrection, when men and women are redeemed and rescued from the fallen nature, the fallen nature will be healed and then its ungodly propensities (something we all have to deal with in one form or another) will become a thing of the past.    

 

But even if sexual desires no longer exist the ability to procreate (in some way) must still be in effect or what Bro Hafen said could not be true. 

[bluebell]

But even if sexual desires no longer exist the ability to procreate (in some way) must still be in effect or what Bro Hafen said could not be true. 

 

I think you misunderstood him.  He didn't say that it was taught that sexual desire is a part of fallen man, but that sexual desire outside of the bounds that God has set is a part of fallen man.

 

As to the OP-i have no idea if that would be a comfort to homosexuals.   It probably depends on how they feel about their sexuality and whether or not they feel it's a part of them God is completely fine with, or a part of them God wants them to resist.

 

Would it be a comfort to us if we were told that we would be resurrected homosexual?  Since there is a man i love very much, it would not be a comfort to me to be told that i would suddenly not love him, and he not love me, any longer in heaven.

[Duncan]

Beats me. I have a relative who is what you would call asexual and they just don't want human contact and don't need it apparently and don't seek out friendships, they follow the Jean-Paul Satre quotation, "hell is other people". Would their lack of desire for marriage and related things...suddenly translate into having those feelings in the life hereafter? Don't our desires here go with us when we die? I think it says in the Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman homosexuality interview they gave some years ago that homosexuality didn't exist prior to birth and doesn't exist after we die, I don't know how they know that, the scriptures say nothing whatsoever about it.

[california boy]

As one of the few gay men on this board, I can tell you, I have no desire to magically be turned straight.  Nor do I believe Elder Bruce C. Hafen has any knowledge if this is true or not.  It certainly is not supported by scripture or doctrine.  So I am not going to worry about it much in this life.  

 

I do think what you are seeing is the church leaders trying to grapple with exactly how homosexual fits into the plan of salvation.  Personally I think being gay fits in perfectly with the plan of salvation.  Two gods are certainly capable of creating worlds without end.  And I doubt very much that spirit children are created by spiritual pregnancy. It is all speculation anyway.  Nothing has been revealed about the nature of the next life.  Certainly Joseph Smith had a vision where men were adopted by other men.  That works for me.  

[JAHS]

There would be a problem during the Millennium in that to procreate one needs to have blood in their veins, the very reason why Adam and Eve were made mortal so they could procreate. Resurrected beings are made of flesh and bone but no blood so at least it could not be done in the traditional way. 

[Calm]

 Don't our desires here go with us when we die? 

I think that the key phrase is "If you are faithful".  If someone is faithful, while it may be an uncontrollable instinct that continues no matter what, there seems to me to be no desire to continue to be something that God doesn't see necessary for you to be and that would limit one's joy.

 

So while the fallen man side of our nature may continue to hold an inappropriate desire, that part of us that we have nurtured and improved through our faithfulness would have the desire to align ourselves with God's Will no matter what that means.  It is not unusual as I just said a little bit ago to have contradictory desires, it will be the ones we allow to rule us that continue to rule after death and those we have tried to control and limit that will fall away imo and this will either result in being welcomed with joy into paradise or having to deal with Spirit Prison for at least a few more lessons of self control.

[Avatar4321]

But even if sexual desires no longer exist the ability to procreate (in some way) must still be in effect or what Bro Hafen said could not be true. 

 

Who says all sexual desires are unrighteous?

[The Nehor]

I think it says in the Elder Oaks and Elder Wickman homosexuality interview they gave some years ago that homosexuality didn't exist prior to birth and doesn't exist after we die, I don't know how they know that, the scriptures say nothing whatsoever about it.

 

We do have this whole "revelation" thing.

 

 

Who says all sexual desires are unrighteous?

 

I do. It is dirty, nasty, and sinful and you should save it for your spouse.

 

 

As one of the few gay men on this board, I can tell you, I have no desire to magically be turned straight.

 

So what happens to bi people?

[Storm Rider]

I think the wording is bad, but the result or the end game is accurate. Although I believe that those of our brothers and sisters that deal with SSA are just as our Father in Heaven created them i.e. it is a normal position for them. This does not indicate that we should assume that because they came the way God made them they have a special license to ignore our Father's overarching goal of creation. Each of us is meant to join him in creation; that is what Exaltation is.  

 

In this regard it may be that each of us will join completely with the Father and the Son and in so doing reflect their will perfectly.  I believe that this is what the Celestial Kingdom is, a perfect union with the Godhead. 

 

Those of us who are more committed to the flesh than union with the Godhead are on a different path. It is a path that falls short of God's will and God's plan. In all truth I don't know how a man or woman will evolve in union with God, but I suspect it will be as big a transition for them as it is for everyone else. 

 

The carnal nature must submit to the spiritual nature in order to unite with the Spirit. The shortcomings, temptations, and trials that each of us has specifically is wholly beside the point. Bury our pride and submit to God's will for us; that is the path of discipleship. 

[california boy]

So what happens to bi people?

Where they always go.  To what ever kingdom is having the best party.

[Daniel2]

Relating to the two recent threads on same sex marriage, Elder Bruce C. Hafen made the following remarks a few years ago while addressing members of Evergreen:

"If you are faithful, on resurrection morning -- and maybe even before then -- you will rise with normal attractions for the opposite sex.""

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13377659

If this really is true dose it provide any degree of comfort to the gay active member of the church, to know that during the millennium they will be able to marry and have children at that time?

In related news, Evergreen just announced it's shutting down:

Longtime support group for gay Mormons shuts down - http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57344806-78/north-star-evergreen-gay.html.csp

"Comforting"....??

D

[Stargazer]

Where they always go.  To what ever kingdom is having the best party.

 

I've always been rather ambivalent about parties.  I went to them in high school because in my social set (I was a frat brother) it was expected -- and by the end of them I was the only sober one left -- but I disliked them.  My little basement rock group played at these parties, too (I was lead guitar), and that was really the only attraction for me, the opportunity to play in public.

 

But as one of my old girlfriends once told me, I am a social bore.  This is why I hope the Celestial Kingdom doesn't have parties.  And if they have them, well, then, I won't go.  To the parties, that is. 

[JAHS]

In related news, Evergreen just announced it's shutting down:

Longtime support group for gay Mormons shuts down - http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57344806-78/north-star-evergreen-gay.html.csp

"Comforting"....??

D

 

Sounds like it's moving on to something bigger and better.

 

http://northstarlds.org/

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Relating to the two recent threads on same sex marriage, Elder Bruce C. Hafen made the following remarks a few years ago while addressing members of Evergreen:

 

 "If you are faithful, on resurrection morning -- and maybe even before then -- you will rise with normal attractions for the opposite sex.""

 

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13377659

 

If this really is true dose it provide any degree of comfort to the gay active member of the church, to know that during the millennium they will be able to marry and have children at that time?

We will wake with two things, a perfect knowledge of our sins and a perfect perfection as when we were born. Which means no more desire to the evil but to do good continually.

[The Nehor]

We will wake with two things, a perfect knowledge of our sins and a perfect perfection as when we were born. Which means no more desire to the evil but to do good continually.

 

Luckily we will not be a physical being at that point. Mixing those two would probably cause my brain to explode.

[Scott Lloyd]

I think you misunderstood him.  He didn't say that it was taught that sexual desire is a part of fallen man, but that sexual desire outside of the bounds that God has set is a part of fallen man.

 

As to the OP-i have no idea if that would be a comfort to homosexuals.   It probably depends on how they feel about their sexuality and whether or not they feel it's a part of them God is completely fine with, or a part of them God wants them to resist.

 

Would it be a comfort to us if we were told that we would be resurrected homosexual?  Since there is a man i love very much, it would not be a comfort to me to be told that i would suddenly not love him, and he not love me, any longer in heaven.

I can understand how someone beset with SSA might view things that way. But the fact is, while a platonic love of one man for another might be wholesome and within the laws of God, sexual attraction is not. Ergo, while the platonic love might continue into the eternities, it is inconceivable to me that the sexual attraction would.

 

To me, the statement quoted in the OP just plain makes sense. I cannot see how it would be otherwise.

[bluebell]

I can understand how someone beset with SSA might view things that way. But the fact is, while a platonic love of one man for another might be wholesome and within the laws of God, sexual attraction is not. Ergo, while the platonic love might continue into the eternities, it is inconceivable to me that the sexual attraction would.

 

To me, the statement quoted in the OP just plan makes sense. I cannot see how it would be otherwise.

 

I wasn't really commenting how whether or not it made sense from an LDS perspective, but whether or not it would be a comfort to a homosexual.

 

My thinking is that it would completely depend upon how the person viewed their homosexuality.  If they viewed it as a wonderful part of who they are, a part of them which provided for unique relationships that they wouldn't want to lose after death, then my guess is that no, it would not be a comfort.

[The Nehor]

I wasn't really commenting how whether or not it made sense from an LDS perspective, but whether or not it would be a comfort to a homosexual.

 

My thinking is that it would completely depend upon how the person viewed their homosexuality.  If they viewed it as a wonderful part of who they are, a part of them which provided for unique relationships that they wouldn't want to lose after death, then my guess is that no, it would not be a comfort.

 

It is a weird dichotomy but it involves a lot of other things in the gospel too. There are parts of the gospel I just do not like and duties I have to perform or live that I do not enjoy at all. I am told I should like them. I expect God will change my nature to enjoy them either in this life or the next.

 

One writer remarked that heaven is not what we imagined it to be when we started on the road of the gospel but by the time we arrive we will desire it desperately. If we had seen it from the beginning we probably would not have wanted it.

 

I don't mean to diminish the anguish this causes by comparing it to more trivial trials. 

[Scott Lloyd]

I wasn't really commenting how whether or not it made sense from an LDS perspective, but whether or not it would be a comfort to a homosexual.

 

My thinking is that it would completely depend upon how the person viewed their homosexuality.  If they viewed it as a wonderful part of who they are, a part of them which provided for unique relationships that they wouldn't want to lose after death, then my guess is that no, it would not be a comfort.

I agree that whether it would be a comfort depends on how a person is inclined to view his own homosexuality.

 

I have heard often in the past, though, from disparate sources, that no one in his right mind would choose to be gay. If that is the case, why would one cherish his gayness (for want of a better term) to the point he would want to see it perpetuated into the eternities?

 

Or is that not true? Are there people who, given the choice, would pick SSA as an orientation?

[Daniel2]

I agree that whether it would be a comfort depends on how a person is inclined to view his own homosexuality.

I have heard often in the past, though, from disparate sources, that no one in his right mind would choose to be gay. If that is the case, why would one cherish his gayness (for want of a better term) to the point he would want to see it perpetuated into the eternities?

Or is that not true? Are there people who, given the choice, would pick SSA as an orientation?

That is a spectrum, in and of itself. There is a time I wholly rejected my sexual orientation and would never have chosen it. Over the years, that feeling evolved, and today, so far as my sexual orientation is concerned, there's no way I would ever want to be anyone other than who I am. The thought of a personality change in some type of resurrection, to the effect of altering my most cherished romantic relationship, sounds as appealing as a lobotomy (and would be completely analogous).

Imagine a missionary from another faith knocking on your door. Rather than telling you that you could spend eternity sealed together with your spouse, with whom you have spent a lifetime loving, laughing, sacrificing, growing, communicating, raising children, etc., the missionary tells you that after you die, to get into heaven, God will alter your personality to the extent that you won't have any romantic affection for your spouse. How attractive would that seem?

D

[JAHS]

That is a spectrum, in and of itself. There is a time I wholly rejected my sexual orientation and would never have chosen it. Over the years, that feeling evolved, and today, so far as my sexual orientation is concerned, there's no way I would ever want to be anyone other than who I am. The thought of a personality change in some type of resurrection, to the effect of altering my most cherished romantic relationship, sounds as appealing as a lobotomy (and would be completely analogous).

Imagine a missionary from another faith knocking on your door. Rather than telling you that you could spend eternity sealed together with your spouse, with whom you have spent a lifetime loving, laughing, sacrificing, growing, communicating, raising children, etc., the missionary tells you that after you die, to get into heaven, God will alter your personality to the extent that you won't have any romantic affection for your spouse. How attractive would that seem?

D

 

 

One has to account for the audience that Elder Hafen was talking to. In the article, Evergreen is described as "a nonprofit group that helps Mormons "overcome homosexual behavior" and "diminish same-sex attraction."

 

So his remarks were being directed to those who perhaps did not want to be gay nor had any gay partners. He was trying to give them some hope. However, To someone who has accepted the fact that they are gay and is in a committed relationship with someone, I can see how such a promise would not be well accepted or understood.

[Scott Lloyd]

That is a spectrum, in and of itself. There is a time I wholly rejected my sexual orientation and would never have chosen it. Over the years, that feeling evolved, and today, so far as my sexual orientation is concerned, there's no way I would ever want to be anyone other than who I am. The thought of a personality change in some type of resurrection, to the effect of altering my most cherished romantic relationship, sounds as appealing as a lobotomy (and would be completely analogous).

Imagine a missionary from another faith knocking on your door. Rather than telling you that you could spend eternity sealed together with your spouse, with whom you have spent a lifetime loving, laughing, sacrificing, growing, communicating, raising children, etc., the missionary tells you that after you die, to get into heaven, God will alter your personality to the extent that you won't have any romantic affection for your spouse. How attractive would that seem?

D

So do you believe, then, that there are heterosexual people who, given the choice, would rather be gay? Or is it merely a matter of adaptation and growing accustomed to what one thinks can never be changed, either now or in the hereafter?