Caroline Kline : Mormon Women Have Their Say

[Storm Rider]

This is myopic for women?  So what is it if a man wants to be a stay at home Dad and lets the wife rule the roost?  Is that unenlightened.  What exactly do we make of it when a Prophet laments that more young women are getting advanced degrees than young men?

You are misreading. The view is myopic.

I know of no home where the woman does not rule. When mama is not happy, ain't nobody happy.

What we should make of it is the reality of our so many of our young men having little motivation to better themselves. You where lenses that only let you see one thing; that which offends you. Unfortunately, you miss reality. Our young men have spent the last 40 years being emasculated in our schools, our society, and in every organization in which the participate. All social problems are laid at their feet. It is not surprising that many are not motivated and others have swallowed the idea that only the feminine can save.

[Calm]

When mama is not happy, ain't nobody happy.

And in what home if the dad is unhappy, it doesn't impact other family members in the same way?

[SamIam]

You are misreading. The view is myopic.

I know of no home where the woman does not rule. When mama is not happy, ain't nobody happy.

What we should make of it is the reality of our so many of our young men having little motivation to better themselves. You where lenses that only let you see one thing; that which offends you. Unfortunately, you miss reality. Our young men have spent the last 40 years being emasculated in our schools, our society, and in every organization in which the participate. All social problems are laid at their feet. It is not surprising that many are not motivated and others have swallowed the idea that only the feminine can save.

I agree there is a direction of emasculation.  

Edited September 14, 2013 by SamIam

[Storm Rider]

And in what home if the dad is unhappy, it doesn't impact other family members in the same way?

 

Most, they just ignore fathers for the most part.

 

That part of what I was saying is a bit of humor, but there remains a good deal of truth. Mothers are an integral part of the home and as long as Dad is bringing home the bacon, he just has his honey-do list to do and all is skocum.

[Calm]

Most, they just ignore fathers for the most part.

 

I have never seen a family functioning that way.

[Tacenda]

And in what home if the dad is unhappy, it doesn't impact other family members in the same way?

Yeah, that statement is lopsided for sure. My neighbor is constantly telling her kids to make her husband happy. They all are careful not to get him mad.

[Tacenda]

Most, they just ignore fathers for the most part.

That part of what I was saying is a bit of humor, but there remains a good deal of truth. Mothers are an integral part of the home and as long as Dad is bringing home the bacon, he just has his honey-do list to do and all is skocum.

I've never given my husband 'the honey-do list'. I think it gets perpetrated that women do this and may even cause women to think that's what they're suppose to do.

[Deborah]

Yeah, that statement is lopsided for sure. My neighbor is constantly telling her kids to make her husband happy. They all are careful not to get him mad.

 

That kind of concerns me that they are "careful" not to make him mad. Is he abusive?

[bluebell]

I have never seen a family functioning that way.

 

Me neither.  An unhappy father/husband is just as hard on the family has an unhappy mother/wife. 

[Tacenda]

That kind of concerns me that they are "careful" not to make him mad. Is he abusive?

He has issues...but he is extremely close to them, they love him to death.  He is a lot of fun and makes people laugh all the time.  But then he gets in moods, has had depression and has extreme headaches.  But I don't believe he's been physically abusive, but will on occasion let out a stream of f-bombs, my son has witnessed it.  He's a TR holding member.  Sorry for being longwinded here, but I believe he might have a form of Tourette's.  I saw someone doing something this neighbor does on occasion.  He makes these noises with his tongue somehow.  And this person I saw doing it said he had Tourette's.  So now I'm thinking my neighbor does.  My neighbor has a son on a mission and another son going in November and they are strapped for cash, so they'll be under extreme stress where they are already hurting.  I'm hoping it won't send him over the edge.  His wife needs to be "Wife of the Year".  Thanks for your concern.            

[Stone holm]

......it means that more young women are smart and getting their education and not waiting around for some silly Prince Charming to come swoop them off their feet!!  LOL  Besides, they need SOME kind of career/job to fall back on, if anything happens to their spouse!

 

I see it as a good thing.  Although I'm am with the 'crowd' that doesn't support women getting the Priesthood...I sure don't want it or need it. I feel I have plenty of blessings without it.....I DO think young LDS women should go out into the world , to follow their dreams, go to college, whatever they choose, before settling down if they want to.

 

 

Red

Yes, young men should do those things before settling down, oh wait you meant that young LDS women should do that to get it out of their system before settling down to have babies, cook dinner and....

[Calm]

Yeah, that statement is lopsided for sure. My neighbor is constantly telling her kids to make her husband happy. They all are careful not to get him mad.

My mom had health issues so if anything happened to Dad we would have been in big trouble, so Mom would say 'Dad comes first'.*****It didn't really work that way because for the most part Dad was a very conscientious parent even if he didn't relate to kids well.

*****Her dad had died just when he retired of a heart attack, his dad got cancer and the movement/sleep disorder which was passed onto all of us made his life difficult and I think that and some other experiences really scared her about what could if Dad was put under too much pressure, got sick or even died.

Edited September 14, 2013 by calmoriah

[Calm]

]

I've never given my husband 'the honey-do list'. I think it gets perpetrated that women do this and may even cause women to think that's what they're suppose to do.

Neither do I, though we get together and ask each other what needs to be done and who should do it.

[Bikeemikey]

That kind of concerns me that they are "careful" not to make him mad. Is he abusive?

Because we should be careless in making people mad?

[Deborah]

Because we should be careless in making people mad?

 

Some buttons I love to push just to see the other person get excited and lose their cool!

 

Not so much here btw, but in discussins with my BIL who is now an avid apostate who opposes the church and has said some nasty things about the prophets. He gets so excited and just loses it and it's fun to watch.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Deborah

[GingerRed]

Yes, young men should do those things before settling down, oh wait you meant that young LDS women should do that to get it out of their system before settling down to have babies, cook dinner and....

 

No that's not what I meant!! I said IF they want to! Meaning whether they marry or not, it doesn't matter, they should get an education/career etc. If I had daughters that's how I would have brought them up. Don't just expect marriage to happen, cause it may not, so go make something of your self! I think too many young LDS women are taught to just sit around and wait for some guy and that going to collage is not important! I never said any women should STOP advancing herself IF she gets married! I believe in women having a career while married. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Red

[Calm]

No that's not what I meant!! I said IF they want to! Meaning whether they marry or not, it doesn't matter, they should get an education/career etc. If I had daughters that's how I would have brought them up. Don't just expect marriage to happen, cause it may not, so go make something of your self! I think too many young LDS women are taught to just sit around and wait for some guy and that going to collage is not important! I never said any women should STOP advancing herself IF she gets married! I believe in women having a career while married. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Red

IIRC, there is a significantly higher number of LDS women who go to college than the general public, so I don't think they are being told to just wait around for a guy.  However, that number drops when it gets to completing college and really drops for higher degrees (again, IIRC) and if so, that could indicate that college is looked on as filling time until getting married as opposed to important in order to prepare for a career.

[juliann]

I remember this same moaning during the civil rights era.  Why is it when one group betters themselves the group that has enjoyed unchallenged privilege thinks there won't be enough to go around for them?   I call this Pizza Patriarchy when it infiltrates the church.  The gospel is a pizza with only 16 slices for men.  If we give women any the men who have been eating it all will go hungry.   Most people would just go out and get more food instead of complaining that others were nourished at their expense, but to each his own. 

[DBMormon]

 

2nd part of the duo interview

 

http://mormondiscussion.podbean.com

 

Claudia Bushman (wife of Richard Bushman) sits down with us to discuss her new book, "Mormon Women Have Their Say"
We discuss Feminism, Priesthood, Patriarchy and Unrighteous Dominion.
Check out the book here
http://www.gregkofford.com/products/mormon-women-bushman-kline
or 
http://www.amazon.com/Mormon-Women-Have-Their-Say/dp/1589584945

 

 

[Stone holm]

IIRC, there is a significantly higher number of LDS women who go to college than the general public, so I don't think they are being told to just wait around for a guy.  However, that number drops when it gets to completing college and really drops for higher degrees (again, IIRC) and if so, that could indicate that college is looked on as filling time until getting married as opposed to important in order to prepare for a career.

Unless the husband is willing to really share the domestic duties in running the kids around, cleaning house, cooking, shopping, etc. marriage and advanced degrees and careers become problematic, unless both are making enough they can hire help. The nuclear family, as opposed to extended family living together is no longer well suited to American economic reality. We should be studying alternatives.

[Bernard Gui]

2nd part of the duo interview

Do you want comments, or are you just making an announcement?

[DBMormon]

Do you want comments, or are you just making an announcement?

 

Both - I am hoping to draw some attention to the work, but also want people to give me their thoughts on it.  

Since some discussion ensued here, I felt  letting folks know that Claudia Bushman picked up where Caroline Kline left off would be helpful.

[Bernard Gui]

Both - I am hoping to draw some attention to the work, but also want people to give me their thoughts on it.  

Since some discussion ensued here, I felt  letting folks know that Claudia Bushman picked up where Caroline Kline left off would be helpful.

 

 

Both - I am hoping to draw some attention to the work, but also want people to give me their thoughts on it.  

Since some discussion ensued here, I felt  letting folks know that Claudia Bushman picked up where Caroline Kline left off would be helpful.

I posted comments on the first video, but there was no response, so I was wondering if it was just an announcement.

[DBMormon]

The discussion got away from things being talked about with me, and as usual Bob Crockett jumped in and took my quotes that were posted without context and became critical, so I chose to stay out of the conversation.  Point me to which comment you made that you want a response, and I will be happy to.

[Tacenda]

The discussion got away from things being talked about with me, and as usual Bob Crockett jumped in and took my quotes that were posted without context and became critical, so I chose to stay out of the conversation.  Point me to which comment you made that you want a response, and I will be happy to.

I'm having trouble subscribing in order to listen to this and the other podcasts requiring a fee.   What do you think I'm doing wrong?  Is it just me?     

Edited September 20, 2013 by Tacenda