Tithing - Gross, Net, Or Leftover

[JLHPROF]

Fair enough, but when they talk about the windows of heaven opening and a blessing being poured out upon the tithe payers, what exactly is that?  Is it just that they feel more spiritual should therefore be happier right now because of it?  What would you say to someone who did those things but felt that it made them less happy?  Is it his fault that he's not happier paying than he was not paying?  

 

Blessings of tithing are clearly outlined in the scriptures.  And they aren't just internal.  As to whether they are motivation to pay for selfish reasons, that's up to the payer.

 

1. D&C 64: 23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.  (I had a friend who called his tithing "fire insurance", I going to pay my "fire insurance" he would say.)

 

2. Malachi 3:

¹⁰ Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

¹¹ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

¹² And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

(Also 3 Nephi 24.  This does NOT just refer to spiritual blessings)

[The Nehor]

Fair enough, but when they talk about the windows of heaven opening and a blessing being poured out upon the tithe payers, what exactly is that?  Is it just that they feel more spiritual should therefore be happier right now because of it?  What would you say to someone who did those things but felt that it made them less happy?  Is it his fault that he's not happier paying than he was not paying?

I would wonder if they gave the gift grudgingly and the scriptures say in that case the gift is worthless.

Or they do not recognize the blessings in which case I would suggest a regimen of prayer and reflection to seek them out.

[mnn727]

I was taught in seminary that tithing had to be on the gross.  Granted that was 25 years ago.  

I have no doubt you were, however the seminary teacher had no business teaching that, even 25 years ago.

[CCRW]

Probably, but as a recent General Conference talk said it is more important to hear the music and then you will dance correctly.

 

Yes but where is the music the clearest, at the core or approaching the edge?

[CCRW]

Why do we talk about "blessings" when we talk about tithing.  

 

Because its a blessing to be able to attend your children's weddings.

[ERayR]

Because it is better to pay for the blessings rather then not to pay at all. The higher reason may be better but a lesser reason for obedience is better than none. I do not think fear of hellfire is a good reason to obey but it is usually better than nothing and can hopefully lead to better things.

 

It is better to do the right thing for the wrong reason than to not do it at all.

[ERayR]

Yes but where is the music the clearest, at the core or approaching the edge?

 

That depends on you.

[CCRW]

That depends on you.

 

good answer, and hence I suppose what is being said here, there is no right or wrong amount.  Neither is the core better than the edge nor the edge than the core ... right?

[Rain]

You have no gain or loss until you actually sell the stock in your 401k (or what ever else you invest in)

 

In the previous example, if you own your own business you pay on Net income not on gross income, thus paying for Social Security to me is foolish, especially since you're paying both shares (employers and employee's side).

 

I always hear when you own your own business you should pay yourself a salary.  So it seems to me that first you should pay your tithing on your salary (whatever method you use).  The business may use the profit to pay debts or build the business.  Then the business will give you, the owner, the surplus profit.  You would pay on the profit you receive from the business.  

 

Now I know that many business owners don't do it that way, but my understanding is this is the smart way to run a business.  If I'm wrong on that then I guess this doesn't apply.

 

The definition that looks most relevant to me from Webster's 1828 definition of interest was "any surplus advantage." Advantage is defined as "benefit, gain profit." So interest would be surplus "benefit, gain, or profit."

 

That, to me, suggests income.

Fair enough, but when they talk about the windows of heaven opening and a blessing being poured out upon the tithe payers, what exactly is that?  Is it just that they feel more spiritual should therefore be happier right now because of it?  What would you say to someone who did those things but felt that it made them less happy?  Is it his fault that he's not happier paying than he was not paying?  

 

I gave a talk on tithing several years ago.  When I listened  to the conference talks I heard over and over that we could gain things other than financial gain.  One of the things given was wisdom.  

 

I wanted to know for myself what blessings I had received from paying tithing.  Some of the things the Lord told me are very personal to me and I won't share those.  One of the blessings I have received was health better than I could have expected without paying tithing.  Another thing was inspiration in raising one of my children.  Just things that I never would have expected that came from tithing.

[ERayR]

good answer, and hence I suppose what is being said here, there is no right or wrong amount.  Neither is the core better than the edge nor the edge than the core ... right?

 

Now I wouldn't say that.  Jesus said there would be a separation of the sheep and the goats so you first have to decide if you want to be with the sheep or the goats then you have to figure out where that is.  I can't help but think those who pick nits over dollars (paid for tithes and offerings) are not going to get where those who don't are at.

[mbh26]

Now I wouldn't say that.  Jesus said there would be a separation of the sheep and the goats so you first have to decide if you want to be with the sheep or the goats then you have to figure out where that is.  I can't help but think those who pick nits over dollars (paid for tithes and offerings) are not going to get where those who don't are at.

 

It says we're saved by grace and the eternal reward is the same.  Didn't Elder Uchtdorf just say that salvation was not paid for with the currency of obedience?  

Edited April 16, 2015 by mbh26

[CCRW]

Now I wouldn't say that.  Jesus said there would be a separation of the sheep and the goats so you first have to decide if you want to be with the sheep or the goats then you have to figure out where that is.  I can't help but think those who pick nits over dollars (paid for tithes and offerings) are not going to get where those who don't are at.

 

dang, I can hope right?

[The Nehor]

Yes but where is the music the clearest, at the core or approaching the edge?

Wherever the music tells you to dance.

[mbh26]

...Just things that I never would have expected that came from tithing.

 

 

Yeah, that'd be a hard sell teaching that to an investigator in a missionary situation.  It always bothered me when missionaries would promise the people financial blessings in return for tithing.  If they didn't specifically state it, that was surely how the people interpreted it.  I haven't seen many people better off financially because of tithing.  The statement is in such obvious contradiction to life experience, you wonder why anyone would take it seriously.  

[The Nehor]

good answer, and hence I suppose what is being said here, there is no right or wrong amount.  Neither is the core better than the edge nor the edge than the core ... right?

No the answer is that the best place to be is where God wants you to be. Let's be honest. Though in most ways I would be called a faithful Latter-Day Saint I am also an oddball in the LDS Church but it seems to be working for me and for God. Someone trying to emulate my path might not be okay with God.

[The Nehor]

Yeah, that'd be a hard sell teaching that to an investigator in a missionary situation.  It always bothered me when missionaries would promise the people financial blessings in return for tithing.  If they didn't specifically state it, that was surely how the people interpreted it.  I haven't seen many people better off financially because of tithing.  The statement is in such obvious contradiction to life experience, you wonder why anyone would take it seriously.

I won the lottery once because I paid tithing.

[CCRW]

No the answer is that the best place to be is where God wants you to be. Let's be honest. Though in most ways I would be called a faithful Latter-Day Saint I am also an oddball in the LDS Church but it seems to be working for me and for God. Someone trying to emulate my path might not be okay with God.

 

I think we agree.  If the music is a metaphor for the spirit of God and one hears it clearly somewhere along the spectrum, well that brings a song to mind .... oh and Nehor an oddball ... nah no way.

 

[Tacenda]

Now I wouldn't say that. Jesus said there would be a separation of the sheep and the goats so you first have to decide if you want to be with the sheep or the goats then you have to figure out where that is. I can't help but think those who pick nits over dollars (paid for tithes and offerings) are not going to get where those who don't are at.

I want to be with the billy goats!

[ERayR]

It says we're saved by grace and the eternal reward is the same.  Didn't Elder Uchtdorf just say that salvation was not paid for with the currency of obedience?  

 

Didn't Jesus say he would separate the sheep from the goats?  I wasn't saying you were saved by paying tithes and offerings but by the attitude with which you gave.

[Rain]

Yeah, that'd be a hard sell teaching that to an investigator in a missionary situation.  It always bothered me when missionaries would promise the people financial blessings in return for tithing.  If they didn't specifically state it, that was surely how the people interpreted it.  I haven't seen many people better off financially because of tithing.  The statement is in such obvious contradiction to life experience, you wonder why anyone would take it seriously.  

 

We have had financial blessings that came from it.  Those were easy for me to see.  I didn't need to pray about them.  

 

being a current ward missionary I haven't found it hard at all to teach and have people accept what was said.  In fact talking of some of my personal blessings that I have seen has brought the Spirit in.  

 

I want to be with the billy goats!

 

My FIL raised sheep. When DH was young his family won a nanny goat somehow.  It was kept in the yard.  When DH went outside and tried to go in the street the goat would bleat and then my MIL would know.  DH is rather partial to goats and finds sheep stupid.  I would have to agree after watching them go round and round a big manure pile.  After seeing them I have new understanding of just why I need to follow the Shepherd.  

Edited April 17, 2015 by Rain

[ERayR]

We have had financial blessings that came from it.  Those were easy for me to see.  I didn't need to pray about them.  

 

being a current ward missionary I haven't found it hard at all to teach and have people accept what was said.  In fact talking of some of my personal blessings that I have seen has brought the Spirit in.  

 

 

My FIL raised sheep. When DH was young his family won a nanny goat somehow.  It was kept in the yard.  When DH went outside and tried to go in the street the goat would bleat and then my MIL would know.  DH is rather partial to goats and finds sheep stupid.  I would have to agree after watching them go round and round a bug manure pile.  After seeing them I have new understanding of just why I need to follow the Shepherd.  

 

 

Many times I have been blessed with what I needed, when I needed it when there was no discernible way before hand.  We raised 11 children, with mom staying home, and me with nothing but a high school education until I was 53 yrs old.

[CCRW]

Many times I have been blessed with what I needed, when I needed it when there was no discernible way before hand.  We raised 11 children, with mom staying home, and me with nothing but a high school education until I was 53 yrs old.

 

Surely you mistyped right there! wow kudos to your wife and you!

[mbh26]

Didn't Jesus say he would separate the sheep from the goats?  I wasn't saying you were saved by paying tithes and offerings but by the attitude with which you gave.

 

Right, you're saying it depends on the attitude with which you give, but you also said it's better to give for the wrong reason than not at all.  Do you mean it's better for the Church or better for the individual?  If it's better for the individual, how so?  

[ERayR]

Right, you're saying it depends on the attitude with which you give, but you also said it's better to give for the wrong reason than not at all.  Do you mean it's better for the Church or better for the individual?  If it's better for the individual, how so?  

 

If one practices a principle, even a bit reluctantly, they at least have a better chance of catching the vision.  This goes for things other than tithing also.

[ERayR]

Surely you mistyped right there! wow kudos to your wife and you!

 No typo.