Should Women Have The Priesthood? My Sister Seems To Think So, Is There A Possibility Behind It, And Why Would Women Want It?

[CASteinman]

Who in their right mind would be eager to get the Priesthood when it means the below:

I don't buy this list as being chiefly a priesthood function

And if they aren't eager, then they certainly aren't following the counsel given:

You will notice that one of these is seeking to entice people to want it -- something that would not need to be done if it were automatic and the remainder are about desiring not the Priesthood but rather Power in the Priesthood or the Consequences.

People want to go to Heaven also... but very few people want to die.

Your analysis is a bit strained.

[CASteinman]

In our ward there was a married couple, I forget if newly reactivated or newly baptized, but the husband had dominance issues of some kind. I recall a brief discussion in bishopric meeting (I was clerk) in which the bishop talked over the husband being called to receive the priesthood. He told us that the wife had asked that he not be given the priesthood, since he apparently was looking forward to the extra authority over his wife it would give him.

It sounds to me like he was not qualified.

[CASteinman]

I think that with regard to women married in the Temple (and perhaps single women endowed) the question in this topic is incorrectly stated.

I would say it should be worded in a way that discusses ordination to offices within the priesthood.

[Calm]

Your analysis is a bit strained.

I wonder how long it will be before we have a thread about women in the Priesthood that doesn't include downplaying the importance and value of the Priesthood.

[CASteinman]

I wonder how long it will be before we have a thread about women in the Priesthood that doesn't include downplaying the importance and value of the Priesthood.

Perhaps you could point to one now that does? So that what you are talking about could be shown clearly by example.

Edited March 19, 2013 by CASteinman

[MorningStar]

In our ward there was a married couple, I forget if newly reactivated or newly baptized, but the husband had dominance issues of some kind. I recall a brief discussion in bishopric meeting (I was clerk) in which the bishop talked over the husband being called to receive the priesthood. He told us that the wife had asked that he not be given the priesthood, since he apparently was looking forward to the extra authority over his wife it would give him.

I don't know what ultimately happened (they moved from the ward, or went inactive, I don't remember which), but I thought it was quite bizarre.

A man that wants the priesthood in order to use it to dominate does not deserve it, and should not be given it, in my opinion.

Oh, that drives me nuts! I have a relative who seems to think that having the priesthood means he has the final say in everything - from the color of interior paint to where they are living. Multiple family members have given him a butt chewing for his selfishness. Men who want it for that reason don't understand the priesthood. To have the priesthood is to be held to a higher standard and to lead the family in righteousness. Wasn't it Brigham Young who said wives shouldn't follow their husbands to Hell?

On one hand, having the priesthood is a great honor and blessing. On the other, men are taught that they could be called upon at any moment to use their priesthood, so they need to be worthy at all times. Seems like it would be quite the heavy responsibility.

Should women have the priesthood? I don't know. I don't yearn for it, but I wouldn't be upset if we were given it. I feel like women have spiritual gifts that are less tangible than the ordinance of receiving the priesthood. I don't want the priesthood anymore than I want other people's talents. I love my own talents and I love to admire the talents of others.

[why me]

As I have stated on a different thread awhile ago, if women received the priesthood, relief society would need to be disbanded and all would be in the elder's quorum. Plus, it is not whether women should receive the priesthood but if girls should receive the priesthood. If so, there would be no need for young women's or young men's organizations. Or the separation of the sexes during meetings. All would be together.

I do believe that since there is a separation of the sexes in meetings, the reason behind this is simple: Boys and girls have different roles to play in heavenly father's plan as do men and women. Now when that changes, we may have the possibility of girl's receiving the priesthood. But one can not do this when meetings for the young are separated because of gender. Or when men attend priesthood and women attend relief society. A major shake up of church organization would need to happen.

I am not being negative toward women in this post. I am just being practical. Much would need to change if girls received the priesthood and members would need to be comforable with the changes, not to mention larger class sizes which would mean remodeling certain branches and wards world wide.

Edited March 19, 2013 by why me

[MatthewG]

"Do not project negative traits to women as a group if you want to stay on the board."

Who added this and why? What negative traits as a group am I projecting????

[CASteinman]

"Do not project negative traits to women as a group if you want to stay on the board."

Who added this and why? What negative traits as a group am I projecting????

You asked a question and this was seen by a moderator in a negative light.

If you read the rule boards you will see that you are not allowed to suggest in any way, shape or form that a moderator is wrong or biased or has made an error of some sort or any other manner of criticism. In fact, it is even possible that asking for clarification can be seen as a negative, so I advise you to just let it go.

Edited March 19, 2013 by CASteinman

[bluebell]

Women should have the priesthood only if and when the Lord dictates such.

I believe there's a possibility such could happen but that it is unlikely in this life.

I think many women probably want it for the same reasons that men want it: it would allow them to take part in serving and administrating the Lord's church in ways that aren't possible without the priesthood, and thus give them access to the blessings which come from that kind of service.

Other women want it only because they don't have it and men do.

And many women don't want it.

Edited March 19, 2013 by bluebell

[wenglund]

To me, true believers in the gospel will want for women what God wants for women and when he wants it for them. They will humbly look to him, rather than pridefully to themselves, for desires, and this is how we become of one heart and mind with God.

Believers in their own personal gospel are free to want whatever and for whenever they wish.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Women should have the priesthood only if and when the Lord dictates such.

I believe there's a possibility such could happen but that it is unlikely in this life.

I think many women probably want it for the same reasons that men want it: it would allow them to take part in serving and administrating the Lord's church in ways that aren't possible without the priesthood, and thus give them access to the blessings which come from that kind of service.

Other women want it only because they don't have it and men do.

And many women don't want it.

You also forgot that some people want it solely for selfish reasons. But hey if it happens it happens and I would be behind it at that time. I just really doubt it will be in this life, like you said.

[Tacenda]

I don't think women realize, it's not a choice for men, practically speaking, they shouldn't just get the Priesthood only if they want it. It's either women are all expected to have it or not. Just like the men possibly. Ok, two steps back into not too sure it's the right way to go. Not that I have any power to change it. The way we use the Priesthood in our church is so different than in other faiths. It's just so complicated. I think we should just give back the Relief Society to the women. The president and counselors need more power to help the sisters as they see fit. I know that their hands are tied and that some have to wait and see what the bishop says or even wait for the bishop to sign off of things for food orders etc. Sometimes the bishop is out of town or not available, this happened all the time in my ward RS Presidencies. There just isn't the trust given to women that needs to be there. We feel as if we're the child and the men are the adult here. Just speaking for Relief Society here. It should be the way it was in earlier times!

Edited March 19, 2013 by Tacenda

[Questing Beast]

Having women priesthood in the Church wouldn't change anything. Women already serve more conscientiously than men as a group. We'd see more women than men apostles and as prophetesses at all levels, that's all. Instead of hearing predominantly men's voices in meetings we'd hear predominantly women's voices. More men would stay home with the kids while their wives served in meetings. I suspect that the only real change would be the demographics of men compared to women who are active in the Church: as it is already, women outnumber men by a noticeable amount. If women held the priesthood men would diminish in active numbers even more so. Probably that's why it is what it is now; men need a kick in the pants up the stairs....

Edited March 19, 2013 by Questing Beast

[Traela]

As I said in another thread, I don't think women are fully realizing the potential for the Relief Society. I believe it truly is the Lord's organization for women. I believe that when we start living up to our privileges, we will see that we have just as much power and authority as the men, only in different ways.

[Buzzard]

Sisters, you can have 6:00 AM bishopric meetings and/or PEC, also Church Discipline councils. Just be careful what you ask for, you may not be so happy if you get it.

[EllenMaksoud]

Wow! What did you DO to them? I hope it was painful!

I got more chest hair for my next witches cauldron conjuring session.

[CASteinman]

Having women priesthood in the Church wouldn't change anything. Women already serve more conscientiously than men as a group. We'd see more women than men apostles and as prophetesses at all levels, that's all. Instead of hearing predominantly men's voices in meetings we'd hear predominantly women's voices. More men would stay home with the kids while their wives served in meetings. I suspect that the only real change would be the demographics of men compared to women who are active in the Church: as it is already, women outnumber men by a noticeable amount. If women held the priesthood men would diminish in active numbers even more so. Probably that's why it is what it is now; men need a kick in the pants up the stairs....

Mainly Opinion I suppose? Pretty disparaging words toward men you know.

This study does not suggest you are correct in the extremity of your views nor in the direction of things as people arrive at the ages that are generally associated with higher levels of Church leadership:

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/latter-day-saint-social-life-social-research-lds-church-and-its-members/10-religiosity-morm

[Questing Beast]

Actually I am disparaging toward the human race. But men are the game players while women work to make the world better, speaking generally and broadly of course. Without the priesthood demanding their leadership, men would step back and let women lead, as they did in the earliest ages of our species, when "God" was a woman....

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

So did Abraham want the priesthood for mortal pride and/or self satisfaction or for these reasons below? And if Abraham could righteously desire it and all men, why can't women? What is it about women that makes them wanting the priesthood a thing of pride, yet it is a wonderful desire for men to have that is encouraged among the young men from about the age they join Primary if not before? Is a man who is nonLDS who sees what the Priesthood can do for him and what he can do for others with it, who desires to fulfill righteousness and be of service to God and mankind and who therefore joins the Church and receives the Priesthood...what makes his desire righteous and unselfish and a woman's desire to do exactly the same thing wrong and selfish?

http://www.lds.org/s.../abr/1?lang=eng

Women have such goodness and power already, there is nothing wrong with having a desire for something good like the Priesthood. It is God's word that limits the Priesthood, not "all" men can hold it. It is a gift that can be given or lost. I was in the hospital once in serious pain trashing around even in my sleep. They doctors were giving me med's trying to calm me down. My mother had arrived at the hospital, I was still trashing about while sleeping. My told me later that my mom walked over and put her hand on my forehead and I stopped trashing around in that instant and sleep the remaining part of the night. This power did not require the Priesthood, just the unseen power that Mother's have. While I flew medivac in the Army, someone who was hurt very badly should cry out for their Mother's. When we did civilian support we would fly to small towns after picking up nurses and incubators ( hope I spelled this right) and fly babies to Atlanta to Children Hospitals. The worst part of this was trying to explain to a mother what they could not fly with us. Sometimes the medic that was with us (I was the crew chief) we would lay our hands on the incubator and bless the baby. Saving the babies was the greatest part of that job...too cool.

[escott3564]

So did Abraham want the priesthood for mortal pride and/or self satisfaction or for these reasons below? And if Abraham could righteously desire it and all men, why can't women? What is it about women that makes them wanting the priesthood a thing of pride, yet it is a wonderful desire for men to have that is encouraged among the young men from about the age they join Primary if not before? Is a man who is nonLDS who sees what the Priesthood can do for him and what he can do for others with it, who desires to fulfill righteousness and be of service to God and mankind and who therefore joins the Church and receives the Priesthood...what makes his desire righteous and unselfish and a woman's desire to do exactly the same thing wrong and selfish?

http://www.lds.org/s.../abr/1?lang=eng

Amen, Sister! LOVE, LOVE these points!

Keep in mind that this is "the gospel according to Elizabeth" (love the smilies), but these are my feelings on the matter.

When Joseph Smith first organized the Relief Society, it was organized as a companion organization, equal to the Priesthood in authority. Women gave blessings to the sick, blessings on babies, etc. Later, when the Church was reorganized in Utah with Brigham Young, Brigham Young made the RS an auxilliary. I spoke to this in a little more detail on a thread on my private board. Let me quote it here:

I was having a discussion with some friends on another message board, and I thought I would bring a similar discussion here. The friend I was discussing things with is staunchly TBM, and stated that he didn't see that there were huge differences between the Relief Society and the Priesthood, and didn't understand why there was such a fuss made about there not being equality within the Church's current organization. This was my response to him:

The Relief Society, in its current state is, indeed, a lesser organization than the Priesthood. It is considered an auxilliary organization, just like the Primary or Sunday School is.

However, when Joseph Smith originally established the Relief Society, he designed it as a companion organization to the Priesthood; his original intent was to make the organizations equal. Women administered blessings to the sick, and operated in many other ways which were equal to the priesthood.

When Brigham Young became the President of the Church, he changed the focus of the RS, and made it more of an auxilliary.

It is my personal belief that someday the RS WILL be restored to its equal status at some point. It might happen during the Second Coming, but hopefully before.

He went on to say that since women could hold leadership positions in presidencies, committees, etc., he was still unclear as to why women should feel less important.

My response was the following:

This is true; however, the priesthood has stewardship over the Relief Society, as it does every other auxilliary in the Church. Name me ONE situation where women hold stewardship over men. There are none. Yes, women can lead committees, and boards, and serve in presidencies. However, a priesthood leader ALWAYS ultimately presides over ALL of these callings. There are no female bishops. There are no female Stake Presidents. There are no female prophets. Women, also, under the current organization in the Church, cannot give blessings to the sick, or bless babies.

I do believe that this will change, but until it does, there is an unequal setting between men and women in the Church, and the current Church is definitively run under a patriarchial order.

Anyone who has been through the temple sees the implications of the Priesthood being returned to women. Women perform ordinances that involve the laying on of hands, just like men do.

I believe that it truly is the eternal order of things. In my opinion, it is prejudice and fear of change that keeps women from holding the priesthood now, but it will change, just as it did for blacks holding the priesthood.

There is evidence of this with the current change in ages for female missionaries. There is already talk of sister missionaries holding roles such as District Leaders, Zone Leaders, etc. based on the overwhelming number increase of female missionaries.

I welcome the change.

[Freedom]

Actually I am disparaging toward the human race. But men are the game players while women work to make the world better, speaking generally and broadly of course. Without the priesthood demanding their leadership, men would step back and let women lead, as they did in the earliest ages of our species, when "God" was a woman....

So you are suggesting that, in every organization where the priesthood is not manifest, the women lead? For example, the U.S. Congress? Amway? The U.K.? What exactly is the difference between a game player (Marissa Mayer) and making the world better (Alagappa Chettiar)?

The studies I read indicate that women are less likely to seek for higher office because of family commitment They are more inclined to step down from positions of authority to have time for their children and let their husbands continue on in their careers It is a difference in the sexes. Men are no less likely to improve the world and women are no less likely to be game players. They just take on different roles.

[thesometimesaint]

Amen, Sister! LOVE, LOVE these points!

Keep in mind that this is "the gospel according to Elizabeth" (love the smilies), but these are my feelings on the matter.

When Joseph Smith first organized the Relief Society, it was organized as a companion organization, equal to the Priesthood in authority. Women gave blessings to the sick, blessings on babies, etc. Later, when the Church was reorganized in Utah with Brigham Young, Brigham Young made the RS an auxilliary. I spoke to this in a little more detail on a thread on my private board. Let me quote it here:

I was having a discussion with some friends on another message board, and I thought I would bring a similar discussion here. The friend I was discussing things with is staunchly TBM, and stated that he didn't see that there were huge differences between the Relief Society and the Priesthood, and didn't understand why there was such a fuss made about there not being equality within the Church's current organization. This was my response to him:

The Relief Society, in its current state is, indeed, a lesser organization than the Priesthood. It is considered an auxilliary organization, just like the Primary or Sunday School is.

However, when Joseph Smith originally established the Relief Society, he designed it as a companion organization to the Priesthood; his original intent was to make the organizations equal. Women administered blessings to the sick, and operated in many other ways which were equal to the priesthood.

When Brigham Young became the President of the Church, he changed the focus of the RS, and made it more of an auxilliary.

It is my personal belief that someday the RS WILL be restored to its equal status at some point. It might happen during the Second Coming, but hopefully before.

He went on to say that since women could hold leadership positions in presidencies, committees, etc., he was still unclear as to why women should feel less important.

My response was the following:

This is true; however, the priesthood has stewardship over the Relief Society, as it does every other auxilliary in the Church. Name me ONE situation where women hold stewardship over men. There are none. Yes, women can lead committees, and boards, and serve in presidencies. However, a priesthood leader ALWAYS ultimately presides over ALL of these callings. There are no female bishops. There are no female Stake Presidents. There are no female prophets. Women, also, under the current organization in the Church, cannot give blessings to the sick, or bless babies.

I do believe that this will change, but until it does, there is an unequal setting between men and women in the Church, and the current Church is definitively run under a patriarchial order.

Anyone who has been through the temple sees the implications of the Priesthood being returned to women. Women perform ordinances that involve the laying on of hands, just like men do.

I believe that it truly is the eternal order of things. In my opinion, it is prejudice and fear of change that keeps women from holding the priesthood now, but it will change, just as it did for blacks holding the priesthood.

There is evidence of this with the current change in ages for female missionaries. There is already talk of sister missionaries holding roles such as District Leaders, Zone Leaders, etc. based on the overwhelming number increase of female missionaries.

I welcome the change.

There is nothing stopping women from giving blessings to their babies, the sick, so that their car will make it to the next gas station. What they can't do is invoke the Priesthood.

[CASteinman]

But men are the game players while women work to make the world better, speaking generally and broadly of course.

Utter nonsense.

I do, however, notice that you play fast and loose with data.

[CASteinman]

When Joseph Smith first organized the Relief Society, it was organized as a companion organization, equal to the Priesthood in authority.

Incorrect.