Enthusiasm In Worship

[blooit]

I've asked the question before, "Do Mormons overemphasize reverence?" On that same note, I wonder what role enthusiasm should play in our worship services. I think it played a much bigger role in the early years. How is it that our "Hosanna Shout" has become the "Hosanna Mumble?" Why doesn't music play a bigger role in our worship services? Our prayers are largely rote prayers with slight changes in wording and order.

I don't mean this to be a big indictment of LDS worship, and I also recognize that this may only be in the Utah/Idaho area where I live, but as I have attended services at other churches, I do not envy their doctrine, their philosophy, or their approach. I do find myself envying their music and their level of enthusiasm. While this should not replace the spirit, I have truly found myself leaving evangelical services saying to myself, "I'm ready to go out and do something for Jesus." I mean, come on guys, you have to admit that if Elder's quorum gets any less enthusiastic, it might as well be held in the nursery.

What can we do, as a church or as a culture, to inspire more; to have great teaching as our leaders have encouraged us to do, and to send members home saying, "Man, I want to go out and do something for Jesus." Surely enthusiasm can work side by side with the spirit?

[Storm Rider]

The D&C teaches us the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 46:2

2 But notwithstanding those things which are written, it always has been given to the elders of my church from the beginning, and ever shall be, to conduct all meetings as they are directed and guided by the Holy Spirit.

It really is the place of the bishop to lead and guide the meetings. I would agree with you that we have let the pendulum swing a little too far, for my personal taste, toward uniformity and reverence. I suspect that if bishops took the initiative to follow the spirit in meetings we might find a greater variety of meeting styles and singing. We too often rely more on Salt Lake than the guidance we might receive in our local congregations.

[Garden Girl]

Hello blooit...

I know what you mean... at times I wish we had a little more enthusiasm, but let me share my personal experience.

I was inactive for many years, but through those years I would receive promptings from time to time by the Spirit to return to Church, and I stayed close to the Church through my folks. Finally in Sept 1995 with the sudden death of my mom I did return to Church. My spirit was hungry, and so I used to turn on the Christian channel to a couple of favorite speakers. I was carried away by the style of preaching, and particularly the music... during those first weeks having a similar feeling as yours about wanting to go out and do something for Jesus.

At last, Oct conference arrived, and as I sat there and listened to the calm but deep speaking, the beautiful doctrines, I felt comforted. and a sense of rightness... The next time I tuned into TBN and heard the preacher almost yelling, it actually "hurt" my Spirit and I actually cringed. Since then I've been more comfortable with our reverence because of the content, but also instead of becoming superficially whipped up emotionally, I'm actually fed spiritually and comforted deeply.

But yes, sometimes I do wish we would show a little more enthusiasm and what I might term "joy" in our message.

GG

[Bernard Gui]

Sacrament meeting is not the place to whoop it up.

A while back I played in the orchestra for a Korean Presbyterian church.

The praise band led off the service with some jammin' Christian pop stuff.

The young folks were getting down, but the older folks were visibly put out.

Besides, the band was not very good and badly out of tune. There was

lots of praising going on despite the raw sounds coming out of the amps.

I've played in a number of churches that rock for Jesus. I also watch a lot of EV worship

services on the tube. There appears to be little difference between congregations that

get worked up by praise music and a mosh pit at one if my son's ska band concerts.

I've also played regularly at a big box church with very high tech av equipment and

professional musicians. The production values are high and the folks get worked up

to be sure, but it seems little different than any other highly produced music venue.

I've played in another big box church Singing Christmas Tree where almost every

number is juiced to the max. The folks leave the performance entertained and, I suppose,

inspired. I leave feeling like I've just eaten 5 triple scoop banana splits and my ears ringing

for a week. Lately, they've put the drum set in an enclosed clear plastic chamber to protect

the ears of the other musicians.

It will be a sad day if and when the LDS Church adopts the music of Babylon for its

worship services. Sacrament meeting may be on the dull side for some, but there are

always things to be learned. There is nothing wrong with quiet worship. Whoop it up

at a ward talent show or turn the tube to the World Revival Church and rock for

Jesus in the comfort of the living room.

It's a mystery to me how this is supposed to be superior to LDS worship.

Bernard

Edited May 24, 2012 by Bernard Gui

[Sine Saw Square]

I'm wary of the powerful emotional influence that music possesses being misunderstood as feeling the spirit. I extend that to some LDS music.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Sine Saw Square

[Bernard Gui]

I'm wary of the powerful emotional influence that music possesses being misunderstood as feeling the spirit. That even goes for LDS music though not all if it of course.

I agree. It requires great discernment to recognize the difference. Many of us get very

defensive about the styles of music we prefer-somewhat akin to allegiance to sports teams.

Bernard

[Sine Saw Square]

An example of what i mean; Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings has a very powerful effect on me. Very cathartic, but it's secular in creation and has no doctrinal message to convey. So are the tears that well in my eyes upon a sincere listening caused by the Spirit witnessing truth or the abstracted pure emotion of the music enjoying a unfiltered connection with my heart strings? (pun intended)

[Storm Rider]

When I think of some of the saddest moments in church worship I think of the Hosannah Shout that Elder Packer led for one of the temple dedications. It felt worse than being slapped with a dead fish. It was the first Hosannah Shout that the Church had done together in literally decades. They called Brother Packer to the stand to lead and us and it was as if he was leading us in a funeral dirge. These are the kind of things that just should never take place in the Church. If someone does not have the energy of a rock, don't call them to lead the Church in such a situation; it does not matter what position they hold.

Alternatively, one can have enthusiasm and joy in singing music and not be outside of the working of the Spirit. Nothing is worse than singing Come, Come Ye Saints, three counts too slow and the elderly members (HPs) are never awakened from their mid-Sacrament meeting nap.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I mean, come on guys, you have to admit that if Elder's quorum gets any less enthusiastic, it might as well be held in the nursery.

Is something or someone stopping you being enthusiastic at church? Personally, I sing out loud and with feeling, even though I can't carry a tune in a proverbial bucket. When I pray, I do so with enthusiasm and sincerity. When I preach, as I did a few Sundays ago, I preach with enthusiasm and passion. I greet my brothers and sisters in the gospel enthusiastically before meetings. In Sunday school, I enthusiastically share personal experiences which underscore the practical application of whatever gospel principles we're discussing. In all of this I'm not alone. More often than not, there are 4-6 hands in the air during much of Sunday school. During our tesimony meetings, ward members queue up on the stand. In a normal Sunday, I will weep at least once at church, often more than once. Again, who or what is stopping you?

What can we do, as a church or as a culture, to inspire more; to have great teaching as our leaders have encouraged us to do, and to send members home saying, "Man, I want to go out and do something for Jesus."

What works for me is to hear people teach truth from a personal perspective, having applied and lived it and having enjoyed the power and joy it brings. What works for me in a priesthood quorum setting is to be engaged in ministry. We had a lesson in deacons quorum last month on service, and the outcome of the lesson was that the boys planned to visit a single mum in the ward the week after next to clean her floors and bathroom because she's going to be delivering a baby (caesarean) next weekend. Planning this activity sent their enthusiasm soaring, and the reporting they will do after completing it will do the same.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan

[LoudmouthMormon]

What can we do, as a church or as a culture, to inspire more; to have great teaching as our leaders have encouraged us to do, and to send members home saying, "Man, I want to go out and do something for Jesus." Surely enthusiasm can work side by side with the spirit?

Whenever I feel this way, I go look up the hymns by W.W. Phelps. A little "The Spirit of God like a fire is burning" or "Praise to the Man" goes a long way for me.

If that doesn't work, I go find an alternate rendition of "If You Could Hie to Kolob" like this one:

http://youtu.be/jBHu_KYrOEE

[cdowis]

I remember watching a church video about congregations around the world. I was surprised to see a congregation in Harlem where they had a "Praise Choir". I guess the church made special accommodation.

[BlueDreams]

What can we do, as a church or as a culture, to inspire more; to have great teaching as our leaders have encouraged us to do, and to send members home saying, "Man, I want to go out and do something for Jesus." Surely enthusiasm can work side by side with the spirit?

Yep....ever gone to a genesis group meeting (http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org/). I've only gone a handful of times but enthusiasm is there middle name. The stand and sing, rock back and forth and raise their hands, they clap when something good is said, and from time-to-time when I've gone there's this cool old-style southern baptist preacher who converted that blasts his testimony like he's preaching yet again. In short their meetings are lively, spiritual, and reverent all in one.

I'm not a fan of many recent modern trends to worship...to me the go past enthusiasm into excitement. There's not much substance to it beyond that and seem almost like a placation to get people into their pews. But there's plenty of room for enthusiasm and earnestness. (Ammon, in the scriptures is a perfect example of enthusiasm, IMHO (especially first part of alma 26)).

That said, I feel that enthusiasm starts with us. You want cool lessons, teach to engage and elicit discussion, participate and ask questions, and seek learning. Want better singing? Sing loudly and with gusto and play the piano with some tempo (my personal pet peeves are consistent slow hymns...some are supposed to be slow and sweet, but man, some should have some umpf. There's something wrong when how great thou art sounds similar to i need the every hour). Put your heart into a talk, not just the knowledge of the gospel, show personality beyond the opening joke about how one got this assignment. Not every ward needs to be like genesis, but every ward can have enthusiasm in their own way.

With luv,

BD

[blooit]

I think the pieces are in place for us to appropriately be enthusiastic - maybe we just fail to take advantage of it. We have a rich culture and history, and our music COULD be really special - I just wish we did. I'll never forget sitting in an institute conference with over 2000 youth and marvin goldstein at the piano - he played "The Spirit of God" with flare and everyone was singing out. It was awesome. I don't want rock bands, I just want enough enthusiasm to help members look forward to church more. I think it would help the youth especially.

[katherine the great]

I agree with you Blooit. And I'm NOT referring to Christian rock or the type of music referenced as the only alternatives to our hymns. I think our hymn book needs updating badly with more spirited songs suited for the times. I'm not holding my breath though...

[blackstrap]

I think the hymn book was updated BADLY the last time.I am sure that part of what is needed is a Music Director with the hutzpah(sic)to direct the congregation that the hymns are actually worshipping the Lord and that we should be fully engaged when doing so.Every once in a blue moon the director could stop the music and say" let's try this again! "

[Traela]

I think it would help if we stood up to sing. It's just easier to sing with enthusiasm if you're standing up.

[Gervin]

I think it would help if we stood up to sing. It's just easier to sing with enthusiasm if you're standing up.

Is this true for all LDS churches?

I play guitar in my church's praise and worship band and have to tell people to sit down; they're inclined to stand, clap their hands, and lift their hands.

[mnn727]

The O/P needs to be in a different ward. In our Ward besides the normal 3 hymn's we also have 2 additional musical numbers in Sacrament meeting -- different members singing or playing instruments or perhaps the Ward Choir -- sometimes the closing speaker has to cut their talk short because there's so much music. It also helps that the organist can read the tempo printed at the top of each hymn and play accordingly. Not all LDS hymns are funeral dirges but I have been in Wards in the past where you would think so. It also helps if the organist is not trying to give a concert but actually trying to accompany the Ward members as they are signing -- ie play softly not loud enough to drown out the voices.

As far as Elders Quorum, it is what the teachers make it to be, my HP Group has some really dynamic teachers, and this leads to some really interesting and spiritual discussions - I don't think we've ever gotten all the way through a lesson yet. Trust me, no one is napping in my HP group, I have seen some shouting go on at times though.

Even when I was in EQ we had some lively discussions -- I think the instructors needs to be lead a lesson discussion rather than try to lecture. Good teachers use silence to get members involved and talking.

A good way I found to teach EQ/HP is to pick 10 or so paragraphs from the lesson and come up with 1 or 2 questions for each paragraph. then have someone read the paragraph, the instructor then asks the question they picked for this section and then shuts up and lets the class members talk about it, when the talking dies down, then move on to the next paragraph. If no one speaks up ask the question again, maybe change the wording a bit; someone will pipe up with an opinion or example/story/etc.

Edited May 25, 2012 by mnn727

[KevinG]

I think the Saints (in general) often mistake reverence in Sacrament and Sunday School for meaning we have to be low key in the rest of our meetings. There is a place for whoopoing it up in worship and praise outside of those more reverent meetings. I loved the Stake wide do it yourself Messiah we did back in the Chicago area. It was one of the few times I got to play my trumpet in the Chapel. The Mormon Tabernacle gets pretty wild and fun in concert. Sister Knight can really put the soul in to the hymnal too (a great asset to Mormon musical tradition if you ask me.)

[Damien the Leper]

I would like to visit a ward or branch in Africa where they use tribal music to worship rather than an organ or piano.

[followerofemmanuel]

I don't pressume that I should suggest to anyone what style of worship they should practice but rather to encourage them and myself to worship God in Spirit and in truth. To ask ourselves what this really means and to keep our hearts in check. John 4:24: God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.

I think that worshiping God in spirit means we worship Him from our hearts remembering the first and greatest Bible Commandment that Jesus gave... Mark 12:30 ...'And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.' It's easy for us to quote this but it is our responsibility to understand what this means in order to try and live it out. Maybe the Church's responsibility to is help teach us what this means, model authentic worship for us with the leading of the Spirit. I think within these parameters it may look different for Church or congregant. After all, God is the most creative being in the universe and HE made us in HIS image. One Church may have drums, another a piano, an organ and acapella. Personally, I believe God is more interested in each of our hearts and what we bring to him, an offering of worship, or lip service and empty words? I often have to keep my heart in check through worship. I try to remember to pray for the Holy Spirit to guard my heart from distraction and ask Him to please lead and teach me. Its so easy to get distracted and forget who HE is and why we should be worshipping HIM and bring our best to him, whatever that looks like.

All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah. (Psalms 66:4 KJV)

O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms. For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Edited May 26, 2012 by followerofemmanuel

[Hamba Tuhan]

I just don't grasp lack of enthusiasm at church. Most weeks, I feel like the Seventy who, having been called and sent out with authority, 'returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name' (Luke 10:17). When I think about all that I've done/witnessed during the intervening week, I can hardly wait to go back to church to a) praise God for the miracle of the Restoration, b) rejoice in the mercy of Christ, and c) share my most-recent experiences with others. Is it possible, blooit, that the people you're going to church with somehow have become so jaded with all the miracles, answers to prayers, forgiveness, spiritual gifts, priesthood power, etc. that it just doesn't register anymore?

[blooit]

I just don't grasp lack of enthusiasm at church. Most weeks, I feel like the Seventy who, having been called and sent out with authority, 'returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name' (Luke 10:17). When I think about all that I've done/witnessed during the intervening week, I can hardly wait to go back to church to a) praise God for the miracle of the Restoration, b) rejoice in the mercy of Christ, and c) share my most-recent experiences with others. Is it possible, blooit, that the people you're going to church with somehow have become so jaded with all the miracles, answers to prayers, forgiveness, spiritual gifts, priesthood power, etc. that it just doesn't register anymore?

Hmmm... this is a really good point. I haven't even thought of it this way, but his really resonates with me. Going to have to think about this one for a while.

[theplains]

When I think of some of the saddest moments in church worship I think of the Hosannah Shout that Elder Packer led for one of the temple dedications. It felt worse than being slapped with a dead fish. It was the first Hosannah Shout that the Church had done together in literally decades. They called Brother Packer to the stand to lead and us and it was as if he was leading us in a funeral dirge. These are the kind of things that just should never take place in the Church. If someone does not have the energy of a rock, don't call them to lead the Church in such a situation; it does not matter what position they hold.

I found one video of the Hosanna Shout by former President Hinckley at the Oct 2000 conference. The method is described

at the 17:00 - 20:00 minute mark whereas the "shout" takes place at the 30:00 minute mark.

Actually, it's not much of a shout or a show of enthusiasm (judging from the lack of joy on the faces of the Quorum + First

Presidency). It reminds me of solemn affirmations that you find in Catholic and Orthodox churches for example.

Regards,

Jim

[Pepcigirl]

It would be nice if we could sing the hymns correctly - not one speed fits all. No matter what ward/branch I have attended including my current ward, the singing sounds like you're at a funeral.