Is happiness in the church a facade?

[Kenngo1969]

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don’t think they even clean the temples on Mondays, do they?

Every time I’ve been an a ward that got the rotation to help clean a temple it always happened from 9:30 to 11:30 at night, after the temple had closed.

And then of course, the deep cleaning that each temple goes through sometime during the year (twice a year?) where it’s closed for two weeks solid.  

It's 9ish to 12ish and, I think, 1ish to 4ish here on Mondays, for what that's worth.  Sorry about all the ishes, but you get the idea.  

[Tacenda]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

It's so bad.  We've been in two wards since it was implemented and neither ward's YM or activity days leaders are doing anything with it.  I think the YW is having better luck but not a lot.

That's too bad, my children and myself and husband had it good and great memories. I genuinely hope something happens to change things. 

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Notatbm said:

I have no idea what our primary is doing. I’m referring to our yw/ym. 12-18. You mentioning the primary service projects is the first I have heard of it. 

It’s new this year. 

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's too bad, my children and myself and husband had it good and great memories. I genuinely hope something happens to change things. 

I think the great memories are still happening, because most of the people that I’ve talked to about it just aren’t doing the program. Not because they’re revolting or trying to make a statement but because nobody seems to have really been able to figure out how to do it so people revert back to what they’ve always known.

Unfortunately, for the young men, I think it’s a bigger struggle. The young men were so entrenched in scouting that for the wards that were heavily in into scouting before it all ended, making a shift without guidance doesn’t seem to be going very well. For the wards that weren’t really into scouting at the end, I think it’s pretty much business as usual? Though, business as usual doesn’t always mean a good thing. It seems like the young men organization is struggling in a lot of wards in ways that the young women organization isn’t.

[Nofear]

Announcement on the service project initiative.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/primary-children-invited-to-serve-other-children-in-2025

 

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think the great memories are still happening, because most of the people that I’ve talked to about it just aren’t doing the program. Not because they’re revolting or trying to make a statement but because nobody seems to have really been able to figure out how to do it so people revert back to what they’ve always known.

Unfortunately, for the young men, I think it’s a bigger struggle. The young men were so entrenched in scouting that for the wards that were heavily in into scouting before it all ended, making a shift without guidance doesn’t seem to be going very well. For the wards that weren’t really into scouting at the end, I think it’s pretty much business as usual? Though, business as usual doesn’t always mean a good thing. It seems like the young men organization is struggling in a lot of wards in ways that the young women organization isn’t.

This makes sense since the young women weren't in scouting. I'm wondering how they can maybe integrate a lot of what scouting was back into the YM's program. That might be what they're trying to do, I haven't been involved for many years since my husband did a lot with it. 

[Tacenda]

12 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Announcement on the service project initiative.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/primary-children-invited-to-serve-other-children-in-2025

 

This is awesome! I do remember the penny drives vaguely. I think we collected pennies door to door. I may be wrong, it was so long ago.

[JVW]

My wife was recently a primary president and she said that according to the handbook the parents and leaders aren't supposed to know the goals that the kids set. The kids may share if they want to, but don't have to, and the leaders are just supposed to encourage and try to get the kids to lead the planning on what kind of activities to do to help the kids achieve their goals. I haven't verified that information, but it sounded so dumb that I assumed it wasn't made up.

[SkyRock]

YW had Personal Progress, with standards, goals, and such. 

For awhile 20 years ago or so, the Church had Duty to God as a potential Scouting substitute, with goals, etc. 

This program is basically nothing. 

[Rain]

57 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This is awesome! I do remember the penny drives vaguely. I think we collected pennies door to door. I may be wrong, it was so long ago.

Pennies by the Inch.  The idea was to try to give a penny for every inch tall you were.

[Devobah]

12 hours ago, webbles said:

I think the biggest problem is the rewards are pretty much non existent.  With scouting, you would get recognized with merit badges, promotions, etc.  But with the new program, I have yet to see any recognition.  Nothing to show that a kid finished a goal.  And each kid has their own set of goals so how do you plan out activities to help them in their goals when there is no commonality.

Didn't there used to be something at the end of Duty to God? You got like a medallion or something?

[Rain]

59 minutes ago, JVW said:

My wife was recently a primary president and she said that according to the handbook the parents and leaders aren't supposed to know the goals that the kids set. The kids may share if they want to, but don't have to, and the leaders are just supposed to encourage and try to get the kids to lead the planning on what kind of activities to do to help the kids achieve their goals. I haven't verified that information, but it sounded so dumb that I assumed it wasn't made up.

Aren't supposed to know or don't have to be told? If the child can tell them if they want to then I don't think it is "aren't supposed to know."  I do see it as good thing though if the child doesn't have to tell.  There may be very personal things they want to work or that they may be embarrassed to tell.  Sure, they could still work on those things plus work on things they are ok with telling, but why give them more work? And it is not like the leaders can't still help - they can ask how they are doing with it or whether they need any help or if there is an activity that could be planned that would help them.  

That isn't to say I think the program is a good one - I don't know anything about it.   Just I think that the child not sharing a goal is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Duncan]

On Sundays the Bishop is meeting with people, this past sunday he gave blessings to a bunch of people. The YM advisor wasn't there so the YM were running around because they had no leader, if they had someone other than the one advisor or the Bishop or the Bishop asked someone else to give the blessings then the YM wouldn't be running around and goofing off

[MustardSeed]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

On Sundays the Bishop is meeting with people, this past sunday he gave blessings to a bunch of people. The YM advisor wasn't there so the YM were running around because they had no leader, if they had someone other than the one advisor or the Bishop or the Bishop asked someone else to give the blessings then the YM wouldn't be running around and goofing off

His top priority is ym. He could delegate a lot of those blessings and meetings. 

[california boy]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This makes sense since the young women weren't in scouting. I'm wondering how they can maybe integrate a lot of what scouting was back into the YM's program. That might be what they're trying to do, I haven't been involved for many years since my husband did a lot with it. 

I served in YM for many years.  Our ward was one of those half the boys were interested in scouting and the other half wouldn't be caught dead in even a scouting tee shirt.  My solution was to use the merit badge program as ideas for activities.  For example, there is a photography merit badge.  I arranged for the young men to visit a professional commercial photography studio.  They got to ask the photographer what it is like to choose that as a career, what daily work was like and just how a photo shoot is set up.  At the end of the meeting, I would go over the merit badge requirements, many of which were already done by the visit.  Those interested in getting a photography merit badge could finish up on their own.  I set up similar types of activities with a whole host of career and hobby options.  It is a big list of over 100 different interests.  

The list of merit badges is still there and a great resource to spurring ideas on enrichment activities for the young men.  No merit badge, but is that really all that important?  Isn't the goal to widen the view of possibilities available to young men??

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

His top priority is ym. He could delegate a lot of those blessings and meetings. 

I think a lot of bishops are struggling with that transition away from “father of the ward” to YM president and judge in Israel. 

[webbles]

4 hours ago, Devobah said:

Didn't there used to be something at the end of Duty to God? You got like a medallion or something?

Duty to God had a medallion.  And YW had medallions as well.  All of those recognition are gone.

[Tacenda]

17 hours ago, webbles said:

Duty to God had a medallion.  And YW had medallions as well.  All of those recognition are gone.

I didn't know this.

[SkyRock]

18 hours ago, webbles said:

Duty to God had a medallion.  And YW had medallions as well.  All of those recognition are gone.

And that is really sad.  It isn't better for the youth. I know we don't need to be commanded in all things, but those programs added and guided the youth. 

[Notatbm]

18 hours ago, webbles said:

Duty to God had a medallion.  And YW had medallions as well.  All of those recognition are gone.

I can’t speak for the young women, but for the boys it was long made a big deal to earn the eagle badge. According to pres beck who visited our stake years ago, getting the eagle was a nearly solid way to get a kid on a mission and married in the temple. A huge indicator of continued activity in the church. That is why the church dumped so much $$ into it. They may have been right. Apparently half the kids going on missions are now leaving the church. None of them are Eagle Scouts now unless parents put them through scouting with a heathen troop. Guess there was something to that Eagle. 

[Rain]

19 hours ago, webbles said:

Duty to God had a medallion.  And YW had medallions as well.  All of those recognition are gone.

I'm curious if anyone has ever studied this as to motivation.  I got the medallion.  While I was really happy to get it, the medallion itself didn't motivate me.  It was the process of setting the goals and getting them accomplished that motivated me. 

Ironically, years later I'm not quite anti goal, but people might think I am.  I just don't like goals for the sake of doing goals.  I'm more of a be the type of person you want to be, which I recognize often includes making goals and that this was what the church was trying to do, but with how the programs were set up they made the end goal what they wanted other people to follow rather than intrinsic goals of where the kids wanted to go.

That's probably where they tried to take the current youth programs. The direction may be a good one, but trying to come up with a system that helps people with internal goals and internal rewards will never be easy. 

Edited May 21, 2025 by Rain

[Notatbm]

The scouting program was pretty good although it wasn’t for everyone. Any reasonable person who could read could be a scout leader and guide kids though it. The church spent 195yrs in scouting. That was 105years of priesthood leadership that didn’t have to do anything other than follow a manual written by others and they could have a successful program. That said- most leaders ( or n my experience) put forth almost no effort and parents also didn’t care. Once the BSA started discussing allowing girls, gays etc the church started waffling on its support of BSA. Obviously the endless string of lawsuits tied to concealing child molestations perpetrated by the BSA and other major supporting orgs were the straw that broke the camels back. 
 

that leaves the church with 100% of its current priesthood leadership nearly incapable of creating any kind of program because it has always been handed to them. I imagine the Q15 never bothered with getting a replacement designed because they were never really involved in it themselves. 
 

I imagine it will be over a generation before they fix this -if ever. Leaving it 100% in the hands of local leadership is a sure way to guarantee nothing will happen. Every three to five years new leaders will come in and either create a local program, destroy it or implement a replacement. What that leads to is apathy (already here) and its consistency. All the kids see is that there is nothing for them here but chaos. Oh and basketball in the case of our stake. 

[Notatbm]

1 minute ago, Rain said:

I'm curious if anyone has ever studied this as to motivation.  I got the medallion.  While I waa really happy to get it the medallion itself didn't motivate me.  It was the process of setting the goals and getting them accomplished. 

Ironically, years later I'm not quite anti goal, but people might think I am.  I just don't like goals for the sake of doing goals.  I'm more of a be the type of person you want to be, which I recognize often includes making goals and that this was what the church was trying to do, but with how the programs were set up they made the end goal what they wanted other people to follow rather than intrinsic goals of where the kids wanted to go.

That's probably where they tried to take the current youth programs. The direction may be a good one, but trying to come up with a system that helps people with internal goals and internal rewards will never be easy. 

Can’t speak for the girls but for the boys it was an indicator of a “good kid.” Parents were driven to push their boys to get it. Drivers licenses, dating, cars etc were all held hostage by many families to force their kid to get their Eagle. I imagine similar things happened in yw. Both Eagle and yw recognition were a big thing wherever I have been, but only the boys got a separate ceremony for their award. Girls just got called up to the podium and pat on the head. 

[Notatbm]

25 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Can’t speak for the girls but for the boys it was an indicator of a “good kid.” Parents were driven to push their boys to get it. Drivers licenses, dating, cars etc were all held hostage by many families to force their kid to get their Eagle. I imagine similar things happened in yw. Both Eagle and yw recognition were a big thing wherever I have been, but only the boys got a separate ceremony for their award. Girls just got called up to the podium and pat on the head. 

The young womenhood recognition award was more work than an eagle imho. 

[Rain]

12 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

The young womenhood recognition award was more work than an eagle imho. 

I don't think it was even close to an eagle if done right.  Definitely not while I was in YW (my dad and brothers were in scouts so I could see what they were doing) and closer, but still not as much when my daughter was in.  But Ì was of the mind that the merit badges needed to actually be earned, not go through a merit badge mill or having the adults do most of it.