Is happiness in the church a facade?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Devobah said:

we barely cracked 50 people in a stake of over 1200

I like the idea of a 50 person party.  Less noise and more in depth socializing imo.  I find with larger groups, people just stick with those they know just as you said.  I understand that as it’s too overwhelming.

Edited May 19, 2025 by Calm

[Maestrophil]

I think for me, it's not a facade at all - I am one of those people whom everyone asks "are you always this happy?"  I tell them not always, but mostly, and I am always at peace.  For me, that is because I believe Jesus that if I am doing my best and renewing my covenants with him weekly, I will be OK in this life and in the life to come.  It alters my perspective on tragedy and hard times.

I know others can find happiness without that, but for me, it is really the core of my peace/joy.  Now am I always having 'fun' or think life is fun? Nope.

[Devobah]

53 minutes ago, Calm said:

I like the idea of a 50 person party.  Less noise and more in depth socializing imo.  I find with larger groups, people just stick with those they know just as you said.  I understand that as it’s too overwhelming.

That was one of the takeaways from it too. The people who came were able to have a good time partially because it wasn’t loud. We just had a TON of leftovers that we put to use when we had dinners at the institute the following week. So it all turned out exactly the way it was supposed to. 🙂 

Edit to add: we also utilized a lot of the institute building for the activity. Things were spread out because we were expecting more people to show up. At times it felt like you were the only person in the building.

Edited May 19, 2025 by Devobah

[Tony uk]

From my own angle I get where Tacenda is coming from. Some people's lives seem almost frantically busy, to notice the most simple, but just as important things around them, such as family life. I remember recently watching a documentary about the Osmond's, the musical family. The brothers saying how when they were younger, Friday nights were put aside for a family gathering. The documentary was on YouTube, watched it about a year ago. I think this would be beneficial to some people where possible.

 I attend a number of Churches on a regular basis. Each congregation has an atmosphere of their own. Some more welcoming and friendly than others. Communities that are more chat than others. Some more involving than the other. It is all about engagement I feel, how the the specific congregation connects with the individual 

[Amulek]

On 5/17/2025 at 12:42 AM, Tacenda said:

Sometimes I believe this husband doesn't look out for his wife's well being enough. I would think he'd be better.

Maybe he should be - but I doubt she hasn't had any say in the responsibilities she has taken on. Now, maybe she feels compelled to do so much because of her own values and expectations, but I believe individuals have to find their own boundaries within any system - be that work, church, etc. Failure to do so will result in burnout. 

 

[bluebell]

23 hours ago, Notatbm said:

I’m sure for some it is. I know many who it seems to work for them. It is hard to tell with people you don’t know so well and are not involved n their personal lives. 
 

for the people I do know who it seems to be a facade, usually (in my humble opinion) it is because something isn’t going right with their marriage, kids , job etc. 

my parents always wore that “we r happy as heck smile” even though we work full time jobs and are in huge time suck callings and basically have no life other than church. That is until I pulled the trigger on not going on a mission. After that they kept wearing the smile, but once we alone in the house the war against my decision was on. Much weeping waiting and renting of garments. You’d think I murdered half my family or something. They were furious and either life was the silent treatment or lectures/preaching/ threats/bribes etc. 
 

what really happened is now the ward council and general gossip mill made them the targets. Parents knew exactly how the gossip went. They were part of it until my decision. 
 

I have a few siblings similar thing happened to. Gay kids, apostate kids etc. yea they still put on the smile but I know they are sad/angry at their kids for not filling out the checklist properly. 
 

I’m sorry that your parents handled that so poorly. And also sorry that they became the topic of gossip in the ward. This is not a church that I have any experience with, as I think I became an adult in an age where things were seen differently?  Or maybe I’ve just always been very blessed in the many different wards I’ve been a member of and in the parents perspectives who raised me. I don’t know why individual experiences in the same church can be so different but they often are.

I’m in my late 40s now and I have one son who served a mission and married in the temple recently and another son who has decided not to serve a mission. I have felt zero angst about his decision, and I haven’t seen anybody in my life who has judged me or him for it either.  Maybe secretly in their hearts they are, but outwardly they’ve been so kind and loving and supportive towards him that if they are secretly judging him I’m fine with it. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tony uk said:

think this would be beneficial to some people where possible.

The Church has a program where Monday nights used to be reserved for what is called Family Home Evening. For those who can’t do it on Monday, it’s is recommended to do it on another night during the week, but Mondays are the Church’s break day (temples are closed for cleaning, no church activities besides FHE, which can included singles getting together, are scheduled in the Church building or elsewhere).

When I was at BYU, they even paired up 6 women and six men (usually roommates) in “families”.  It was new every year, maybe semester, I can’t remember.  It helped people to get to know others in the congregations quicker, but we couldn’t choose which apartments or dorms we got paired with (though one time my roommate was a a new and only convert from her family and she was quite homesick and depressed, so I went to the person doing the organizing and privately informed him of her struggle and made suggestions for the guys she would feel most comfortable with and he followed my suggestions, it seemed to help quite a bit).  I liked it one or two years, some other combinations were quite awkward, forced.

I have no clue if this is still done.  I may ask some younger relatives unless someone else knows.  I assume it got done in other areas as well for singles.  I know my wards have done it for empty nesters (though it’s an invitation for those rather than assignments).

[Rain]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

The Church has a program where Monday nights used to be reserved for what is called Family Home Evening. For those who can’t do it on Monday, it’s is recommended to do it on another night during the week, but Mondays are the Church’s break day (temples are closed for cleaning, no church activities besides FHE, which can included singles getting together, are scheduled in the Church building or elsewhere).

When I was at BYU, they even paired up 6 women and six men (usually roommates) in “families”.  It was new every year, maybe semester, I can’t remember.  It helped people to get to know others in the congregations quicker, but we couldn’t choose which apartments or dorms we got paired with (though one time my roommate was a a new and only convert from her family and she was quite homesick and depressed, so I went to the person doing the organizing and privately informed him of her struggle and made suggestions for the guys she would feel most comfortable with and he followed my suggestions, it seemed to help quite a bit).  I liked it one or two years, some other combinations were quite awkward, forced.

I have no clue if this is still done.  I may ask some younger relatives unless someone else knows.  I assume it got done in other areas as well for singles.  I know my wards have done it for empty nesters (though it’s an invitation for those rather than assignments).

In my children's singles wards the last few years they have done it as a ward thing.  The singles live in a variety of circumstances - student and not, apartments, homes and parents homes and not close together like a student ward in Utah so that may be why it is on a ward basis instead of smaller groups.

[bluebell]

10 minutes ago, Rain said:

In my children's singles wards the last few years they have done it as a ward thing.  The singles live in a variety of circumstances - student and not, apartments, homes and parents homes and not close together like a student ward in Utah so that may be why it is on a ward basis instead of smaller groups.

When I was in college in the late 90s in a singles ward—which at the time was called the student ward because it was connected to a community college— that’s how we did it as well. We had Friday night activities, which were often dances or some other fun thing and then on Monday night we had family home evening as a ward, which typically consisted of a lesson taught by somebody and then another fun activity.  

[bluebell]

25 minutes ago, Calm said:

The Church has a program where Monday nights used to be reserved for what is called Family Home Evening. For those who can’t do it on Monday, it’s is recommended to do it on another night during the week, but Mondays are the Church’s break day (temples are closed for cleaning, no church activities besides FHE, which can included singles getting together, are scheduled in the Church building or elsewhere).

When I was at BYU, they even paired up 6 women and six men (usually roommates) in “families”.  It was new every year, maybe semester, I can’t remember.  It helped people to get to know others in the congregations quicker, but we couldn’t choose which apartments or dorms we got paired with (though one time my roommate was a a new and only convert from her family and she was quite homesick and depressed, so I went to the person doing the organizing and privately informed him of her struggle and made suggestions for the guys she would feel most comfortable with and he followed my suggestions, it seemed to help quite a bit).  I liked it one or two years, some other combinations were quite awkward, forced.

I have no clue if this is still done.  I may ask some younger relatives unless someone else knows.  I assume it got done in other areas as well for singles.  I know my wards have done it for empty nesters (though it’s an invitation for those rather than assignments).

I don’t think they even clean the temples on Mondays, do they?

Every time I’ve been an a ward that got the rotation to help clean a temple it always happened from 9:30 to 11:30 at night, after the temple had closed.

And then of course, the deep cleaning that each temple goes through sometime during the year (twice a year?) where it’s closed for two weeks solid.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

don’t think they even clean the temples on Mondays, do they?

Relatively sure they do as I left something essential at the temple and went on a Monday to see if they had it (they did).  The temple was locked up, but I got in because of a cleaning crew.  I think it was about 8 years ago.

They also clean it after hours.  I understood the needed repairs and deeper cleaning, but not deepest cleaning occurred on Mondays. I can’t remember where I picked up the info, so I may be wrong.

Edited May 19, 2025 by Calm

[2BizE]

The short answer Tacenda is Yes.

[Notatbm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I’m sorry that your parents handled that so poorly. And also sorry that they became the topic of gossip in the ward. This is not a church that I have any experience with, as I think I became an adult in an age where things were seen differently? Or maybe I’ve just always been very blessed in the many different wards I’ve been a member of and in the parents perspectives who raised me. I don’t know why individual experiences in the same church can be so different but they often are.

I’m in my late 40s now and I have one son who served a mission and married in the temple recently and another son who has decided not to serve a mission. I have felt zero angst about his decision, and I haven’t seen anybody in my life who has judged me or him for it either.  Maybe secretly in their hearts they are, but outwardly they’ve been so kind and loving and supportive towards him that if they are secretly judging him I’m fine with it. 

Thanks- Parents handled it the way they felt best. I mean our church culture at the time (70s-and 80s) was all about forcing your kids to comply until they moved out. If they resist going to church, scripture study , seminary, scouts force them to go somehow. Take away privileges, brow beat them whatever. Dont stop the pressure until you either gain compliance or the kid moves out or you kick them out.

We learn this be keeping screaming kids in the pews and take them out into the foyer once in a while for a whipping. You don’t see that as much these days but there’s people in my ward who do it. What does the child learn??? Obey or get a whipping or some other punishment. When I was growing up school principals and deans wouldn’t even call home to ask permission to swat your misbehaving angel. They just did it and dared you to go home and complain about it. Why?? Because your parents likely would make you go cut a switch too. 
 

anyway that’s the way it was. Yea I complied until there was no way I could fake it. Go get sworn got into to the military and now you are  owned by uncle Sam. No way out. 
 

I knew I was in for it- not even a surprise. Caught hell from my bishop as well. It was relentless. I did learn from this whole experience is no matter the calling and no matter what you think about who calls who to leadership positions, there is no discernment or inspiration about it. If there was, Satan wouldn’t have such free rein with some of them. I learned to question church authority no matter who it was because the more orthodox they were, the more likely they condoned if not engaged in the same behavior themselves. 
 

I’ve seen this same thing in my own family with apostate kids and also in the many wards I have been in. Not just isolated to my little world. Parents are not perfect but I am amazed at the verbal abuse and threats some will dole out over church stuff. Personally I think they have just spent a lifetime virtue signaling, gossiping and now it’s everyone else’s turn to judge Molly Mormon and Peter priesthood’s wayward child… they must not be reading their scriptures, don’t have a year supply, no garden, prob not doing CFM or FHE etc. name any Mormon checklist item and that gets incorporated  into the gossip when they start badmouthing you or your kid. 
 

I have been in ward council before and heard some of this dialogue. In my current ward I have a friend (mole) who has mentioned my family (mostly me) gets talked about from time to time. We rarely attend and they keep trying to get me involved with mostly made up bs callings like I need some church activity in my life to feel validated . They wanted me in young men’s because I was a big scouter back in the day, but I’m a poor example to them because I am openly anti mission. Also I am anti whatever the youth program is these days. No one in my stake or ward has been able to clearly articulate what it even is. 
 

glad you got zero pushback re your kid not going n s mission. Things change. We recently had a kid flat out quit his mission and come home very early. They had him give a homecoming talk. People were like holy cow we would have had the kid banished back in the day. Now they act like he did his whole two years honorably. I guess that’s good but now it’s just participation trophy. Why do the whole two years of they’ll kiss your butt for doing six months? 

 

 

[bluebell]

47 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Thanks- Parents handled it the way they felt best. I mean our church culture at the time (70s-and 80s) was all about forcing your kids to comply until they moved out. If they resist going to church, scripture study , seminary, scouts force them to go somehow. Take away privileges, brow beat them whatever. Dont stop the pressure until you either gain compliance or the kid moves out or you kick them out.

We learn this be keeping screaming kids in the pews and take them out into the foyer once in a while for a whipping. You don’t see that as much these days but there’s people in my ward who do it. What does the child learn??? Obey or get a whipping or some other punishment. When I was growing up school principals and deans wouldn’t even call home to ask permission to swat your misbehaving angel. They just did it and dared you to go home and complain about it. Why?? Because your parents likely would make you go cut a switch too. 
 

anyway that’s the way it was. Yea I complied until there was no way I could fake it. Go get sworn got into to the military and now you are  owned by uncle Sam. No way out. 
 

I knew I was in for it- not even a surprise. Caught hell from my bishop as well. It was relentless. I did learn from this whole experience is no matter the calling and no matter what you think about who calls who to leadership positions, there is no discernment or inspiration about it. If there was, Satan wouldn’t have such free rein with some of them. I learned to question church authority no matter who it was because the more orthodox they were, the more likely they condoned if not engaged in the same behavior themselves. 
 

I’ve seen this same thing in my own family with apostate kids and also in the many wards I have been in. Not just isolated to my little world. Parents are not perfect but I am amazed at the verbal abuse and threats some will dole out over church stuff. Personally I think they have just spent a lifetime virtue signaling, gossiping and now it’s everyone else’s turn to judge Molly Mormon and Peter priesthood’s wayward child… they must not be reading their scriptures, don’t have a year supply, no garden, prob not doing CFM or FHE etc. name any Mormon checklist item and that gets incorporated  into the gossip when they start badmouthing you or your kid. 
 

I have been in ward council before and heard some of this dialogue. In my current ward I have a friend (mole) who has mentioned my family (mostly me) gets talked about from time to time. We rarely attend and they keep trying to get me involved with mostly made up bs callings like I need some church activity in my life to feel validated . They wanted me in young men’s because I was a big scouter back in the day, but I’m a poor example to them because I am openly anti mission. Also I am anti whatever the youth program is these days. No one in my stake or ward has been able to clearly articulate what it even is. 
 

glad you got zero pushback re your kid not going n s mission. Things change. We recently had a kid flat out quit his mission and come home very early. They had him give a homecoming talk. People were like holy cow we would have had the kid banished back in the day. Now they act like he did his whole two years honorably. I guess that’s good but now it’s just participation trophy. Why do the whole two years of they’ll kiss your butt for doing six months? 

 

 

I guess if you are only serving a mission to get accolades then you're right.  But I don't think most if many of the kids are in it for that.  

My husband agrees with you about the new youth program.  I hope it is short lived.

[SkyRock]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I guess if you are only serving a mission to get accolades then you're right.  But I don't think most if many of the kids are in it for that.  

My husband agrees with you about the new youth program.  I hope it is short lived.

The new youth program is awful.  Sure, a leader with lots of energy and lots of paternal support could make it into something, but that is likely rare.  

I agree that leaders should be planning the replacement. 

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

The new youth program is awful.  Sure, a leader with lots of energy and lots of paternal support could make it into something, but that is likely rare.  

I agree that leaders should be planning the replacement. 

It's so bad.  We've been in two wards since it was implemented and neither ward's YM or activity days leaders are doing anything with it.  I think the YW is having better luck but not a lot.

[Devobah]

27 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

The new youth program is awful.  Sure, a leader with lots of energy and lots of paternal support could make it into something, but that is likely rare.  

I agree that leaders should be planning the replacement. 

 

18 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's so bad.  We've been in two wards since it was implemented and neither ward's YM or activity days leaders are doing anything with it.  I think the YW is having better luck but not a lot.

Been in a YSA ward for a decade? What’s the new youth program? What does it seek to accomplish?

[bluebell]

Just now, Devobah said:

 

Been in a YSA ward for a decade? What’s the new youth program? What does it seek to accomplish?

It's basically centered around goals in four different areas (intellectual, spiritual, physical, and something else I can't remember, maybe creative?).  Every kid is supposed to come up with their own goals, timelines, rewards, etc.  

[Devobah]

52 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's basically centered around goals in four different areas (intellectual, spiritual, physical, and something else I can't remember, maybe creative?).  Every kid is supposed to come up with their own goals, timelines, rewards, etc.  

Nothing inherently bad about that imo. Then again I’m goal oriented. Why don’t you like it much? Is it just too much or does it not work out the way it should? Not trying to be confrontational. Just wanting to understand where you’re coming from as a parent 🙂

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

It's so bad.  We've been in two wards since it was implemented and neither ward's YM or activity days leaders are doing anything with it.  I think the YW is having better luck but not a lot.

At least with scouting (can’t speak for the yw) there were the service projects. Most actually did service to a charity or the community outside of church. Now the incidence of service projects has diminished to extremely rare in our stake. When they do have one, so far 100% of time it has been serve to the church itself.. an org that is probably the last entity that has any need it cannot pay for in perpetuity. 
 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

At least with scouting (can’t speak for the yw) there were the service projects. Most actually did service to a charity or the community outside of church. Now the incidence of service projects has diminished to extremely rare in our stake. When they do have one, so far 100% of time it has been serve to the church itself.. an org that is probably the last entity that has any need it cannot pay for in perpetuity. 
 

I can't speak to that.  We've always done service projects for the community as a youth group whenever I've been in that calling.  This year the prophet has asked that all primaries do a service project as well, lead by the older kids, to serve other kids in their communities.  

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Devobah said:

Nothing inherently bad about that imo. Then again I’m goal oriented. Why don’t you like it much? Is it just too much or does it not work out the way it should? Not trying to be confrontational. Just wanting to understand where you’re coming from as a parent 🙂

There's nothing bad about it, it just doesn't work very well on a ward level.  Most kids aren't doing it at all.  I'd say the vast majority hasn't opened the book in years.

[webbles]

2 hours ago, Devobah said:

Nothing inherently bad about that imo. Then again I’m goal oriented. Why don’t you like it much? Is it just too much or does it not work out the way it should? Not trying to be confrontational. Just wanting to understand where you’re coming from as a parent 🙂

I think the biggest problem is the rewards are pretty much non existent.  With scouting, you would get recognized with merit badges, promotions, etc.  But with the new program, I have yet to see any recognition.  Nothing to show that a kid finished a goal.  And each kid has their own set of goals so how do you plan out activities to help them in their goals when there is no commonality.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I think the biggest problem is the rewards are pretty much non existent.  With scouting, you would get recognized with merit badges, promotions, etc.  But with the new program, I have yet to see any recognition.  Nothing to show that a kid finished a goal.  And each kid has their own set of goals so how do you plan out activities to help them in their goals when there is no commonality.

No badges or promotions- sounds like YW 😜

[Notatbm]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I can't speak to that.  We've always done service projects for the community as a youth group whenever I've been in that calling.  This year the prophet has asked that all primaries do a service project as well, lead by the older kids, to serve other kids in their communities.  

I have no idea what our primary is doing. I’m referring to our yw/ym. 12-18. You mentioning the primary service projects is the first I have heard of it.