Church members who leave the church

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

"Stronger mettle" because officially leaving requires an active campaign, and perhaps some public or familial turbulence, while merely staying away is quite passive, and pretty much accepted, since it is so common. "Mettle" refers to degree of effort and courage, and has nothing to do with whatever reasons one might have.

I'm aware of what mettle means and I'm saying that sometimes it takes more effort and courage to stay than it takes to leave. It's all going to depend on the person and the situation.

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Everyone has their own reasons for staying away, including laziness, among those other things you mention. I was quite lazy for about two years once, and though I didn't attend I was still a strong believer. There a lot of those out there. 

There are almost always exceptional situations. I was speaking of the "standard model". 

In my experience there was one sister who came back to the church, and she said that she had had her name removed. Our bishop was new and hadn't yet read in the Handbook how these situations were supposed to be dealt with according to the "standard model," so we just re-baptized her. Turned out she had actually been excommunicated in a different stake. She had sent in a letter to her bishop telling him "I resign" and thereafter threw away unread both the letter asking her to attend the membership council and the letter telling her of her excommunication. So she thought she had had her name removed. Well, anyway, SLC called our bishop and admonished him to pay closer attention in the future. They discussed her re-conversion with him, and since it appeared that she had made a full repentance regarding the reasons she had been excommunicated, they let the baptism stand, as-is. Everyone was happy ever after.

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by Rain

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Nowhere in my observation did I judge or condemn.

Sure. 

13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

It saddens me,

Oops. 

Edited September 19, 2024 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

As you may be aware, history is in the past. What do you think about the "repugnant history" found in the Old Testament? I think that history should have less weight than the present. And forgiveness should be the order of the day.

Just because I thought his words were applicable to what you have posted, I extracted the concluding 6 minutes from Elder Ahmad Corbitt's talk given at the 2024 FAIR conference. This is from a screen capture. The talk is not yet available to the public, so I hope FAIR doesn't mind too much that I'm putting this out. The link is to an unlisted video on my personal YouTube channel. I don't think there's a copyright involved, but if there is and there's a problem with posting this here, I will take the video down.

It is now official official.  I have been duly authorized to tell you to take it down immediately in a respectful but forceful manner (not really on the latter, but yes really on the former).

Just to be clear, FAIR does not give anyone, even nice supporters, permission without them actually asking permission and receiving permission from those who have authority to give that permission (iow, not me) to post any clips from nonpublic videos or anything else for that matter that violates copyright.  

Edited September 19, 2024 by Calm

[Dario_M]

11 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Sure. 

Oops. 

Why sarcastic? 🤔

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, Dario_M said:

Why sarcastic? 🤔

Just one way to deal with the judgmental post. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 hours ago, Vanguard said:

Regards to the WoW, I have commented with my wife about this issue many times. I don't really understand - though I know ultimately none of my business - how a life-time member would decide drinking was something to be desired. It's certainly not an innate desire to consume alcoholic beverages and is certainly an acquired taste.  I once told my wife I could more readily understand the breaking of our sexual mores over drinking.

I don’t know why it’s hard to understand. Alcohol is aptly described as a social lubricant. It lowers inhibitions making social interaction easier. There is debate about what the first human beverage was, but there is good evidence it might have been beer. 
 

Personally I don’t like the taste, but I do enjoy the drug. It’s pretty unhealthy when consumed in any amount over one drink a day though and I only consume once every other month or so. 
 

Coffee on the other hand is the drink of gods. 

[Dario_M]

12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Just one way to deal with the judgmental post. 

But there was nothing judgemental about that post. It's fine if some of you are angry on the church and wanna express that. But maybe you can make your own topic about that anger and express yourself on there. It gets a little bit unwanted in my topic you see. 

Edited September 19, 2024 by Dario_M

[SeekingUnderstanding]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

But there was nothing judgemental about that post. It's fine if some of you are angry on the church and wanna express that. But maybe you can make your own topic about that anger and express yourself on there. It gets a little bit unwanted in my topic you see. 

“I don’t judge you for belonging to a bigoted church, but it deeply saddens me”

Is the statement above judgmental? If someone claims not to judge me while in the same breath say my decision sadden them? Yeah I feel judged.

edit it to add: by the way, I’m fine with the judgment. I just have an issue with people not calling a spade a spade.

Edited September 19, 2024 by SeekingUnderstanding

[california boy]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Does it realy matter actually?  And besides... if Bernard finds that they were drinking alcohol and were wearing immodest clothes that's up to him what he finds about that. 

I believe it does when a member makes a statement like this:

Quote

 

 It is a fact from my personal experience and it is true. A number of people including close family members who have left the Church post pictures of themselves in a bar or with a glass of wine or wearing clothing that previously they would have considered immodest, and then boast about their new found freedoms.

 

Is he really expecting someone who has left the Church to censor the photos they post of social media to conform with past religious beliefs?  Seriously, what business is it of his to point out how another person chooses to live their lives especially when they are no longer a member of the Church and no longer see anything wrong with meeting up with friends at a bar.  Yeah that seems pretty judgmental to me.

[california boy]

14 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Well..in my opinion that doesn't really matter .. but okay. 

In my head the chances are higher. On youtube, in the church...everywhere i look i see Mormon family's who are so loving. Sometimes it's just neerly painfull to watch for me. Because i miss that so much in my own life. It treuly gives me a broken heart. 💔

Well... i'm in the same boot. My parents don't wanna see me at all. And i didn't do anything at all. I cry about it. It's not even because i'm gay. It's because they don't like my personality. They just don't like my personality. And my sister?..man. she just straight up hates me. While we were so close in the past. While i did so much for her. Supported her for everything she did. Giving her money when she asked for it. Sometimes 1000 euro at ones. When i had a car i gave her a lift to everywhere she wanted or needed to go. I was always super worried and involved in her mental problems she had. But when i was in the hospital and nearly died from an overdosis and some other stuff she never visited me. Liver damage. I may be lucky that i didn't need a transplant the doctors have said. But in those first days the doctors were really worried about my liver. When i was finaly out of that horible hospital and psychic ward my sister didn't even allowed my parents (that's the power that she has over them sadly) anyway...she didn't even allowed my parents... visit to come to their appartment on new years eve. While i was just out of the hospital. In the psychic ward they had pomped me with anti psychotics through 2 injections and i was like a zombie. Later on that medication had damaged my eyes so much to the point i can't see much in focus anymore and need a glasses. For life. I can't see anthing in the dark anymore. My ears are damaged as well. My family didn't cared at all. At least i was calm they said. 

Yeay i guess sorry. I'm sorry for you. 

I have my partner. And that's it. 

Bevore my family i've also lost my friends. 

Okay. I'm sorry for that. That must be hard. 

I'm happy for you. But me myself... i'm not happy at all. 

It's all about Jesus Christ indeed. That's were we doing it for right. But... it's fine that you have left the church. You don't hear me saying that you may not leave the church if you want too. 

That's true. 

Well..but it isn't. That's just the thing. I'm just gonna be honest here. They allready know that i'm gay and they also know that i have a boyfriend. 

I wish I could give you a big hug.  I hope you find a path towards happiness in this life.  If that path is through the Church, then good for you.  

[Dario_M]

Oh my.. . I feel a terrible headache is comming. I'm going to bed. Good night everyone. 🌠🌌

Edited September 19, 2024 by Dario_M

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

This is an official request from a non official of FAIR (iow I am acting on authority of simply being a FAIR member before checking with the Powers That Be).

Please withdraw it until you get permission. If we allow you to do it on your own without permission first because we agree with the purpose, imo we have no right to tell those who do the same but we disagree with how they use it to remove it. 

Done. My apologies.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Done. My apologies.

Thank you. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I wish I could give you a big hug.  I hope you find a path towards happiness in this life.  If that path is through the Church, then good for you.  

 

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Oh my.. . I feel a terrible headache is comming. I'm going to bed. Good night everyone. 🌠🌌

I just want to echo this. I know there is a language barrier between us, though your English is amazing. I truly hope you find the support and peace you seek. 

[Dario_M]

7 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

 

I just want to echo this. I know there is a language barrier between us, though your English is amazing. I truly hope you find the support and peace you seek. 

Thank you. 

[Frank11]

On 9/19/2024 at 6:20 PM, Stargazer said:

As you may be aware, history is in the past.

1. What do you think about the "repugnant history" found in the Old Testament?

2. I think that history should have less weight than the present.

3. And forgiveness should be the order of the day.

4. Just because I thought his words were applicable to what you have posted, I extracted the concluding 6 minutes from Elder Ahmad Corbitt's talk given at the 2024 FAIR conference.

This is from a screen capture. The talk is not yet available to the public, so I hope FAIR doesn't mind too much that I'm putting this out. The link is to an unlisted video on my personal YouTube channel. I don't think there's a copyright involved, but if there is and there's a problem with posting this here, I will take the video down.

[Video deleted by request]

1. Divine actions in the Old Testament were consequent and sometimes harsh, but comprehensible according to the laws and the times, including polygamy. Incidentally, some theologians assume that people's concept of God has changed over the thousands of years, from a strict, punishing God to a loving one. However, I do not see that the divine actions or better, the actions of the prophets were repugnant.

2. Yes, if Joseph Smith had founded a Bible study group back then, but had led a rather shameful life, it wouldn't matter at all today. But in his opinion, he founded the only true church back then and placed himself at the top as a prophet. His successors claim this authority for themselves, which would collapse if Joseph Smith never possessed this authority or was never a prophet. That is why it is still important today.

3. If an impostor pretends to be a prophet and pretends to act on God's instructions, although this is not true, he can be forgiven. Forgiving him does not make him a prophet again. 
The question is whether Joseph Smith was a prophet, not whether the prophet made a few mistakes that he regrets.

4. ... wait and see ...

Edited September 20, 2024 by Frank11

[Dario_M]

Well...i believe that Joseph Smith is a real prophet. Who is with me?💪

[Teancum]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:43 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Yet in my experience, among the first things to go out the window publicly are the newly found pleasures of formerly forbidden WoW substances and less modest dress requirements. 

Oh my.... shudder....how hideous that someone my partake of alcohol or modify their dress standards. 😏  I am sure murder, raping and pillaging is up next.

Edited September 20, 2024 by Teancum

[Teancum]

On 9/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Dario_M said:

But you guys act that way\

Act what way?

On 9/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Dario_M said:

 

and at some point you need to stop exaggerating.

I see no exaggerating. Just facts and truth.

 

On 9/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Dario_M said:

 

And stop with the victim mentality.

You don't get to tell someone else how to process their faith transition.  So how about you stop.

On 9/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Dario_M said:

 

It's not even for sure or the church has lied too you, too me, too us.

It has.

On 9/18/2024 at 11:57 AM, Dario_M said:

 

The gossips about Joseph Smith might be untrue. 

They are true.  Feel free to study it out yourself.  Start with the book Rough Stone Rolling, written be a faithful Latter-day Saint.

[Malc]

21 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Oh my.... shudder....how hideous that someone my partake of alcohol or modify their dress standards. 😏  I am sure murder, raping and pillaging is up next.

I don't know about any other no-longer-believing Mormons, but now that I'm freed from the constraints of faith in God, Jesus, religion, etc., I indulge in all of the murder, rape, and pillage that I want to.

[Dario_M]

29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Act what way?

I see no exaggerating. Just facts and truth.

 

Okay but i have a different opinion about that. I hope you can have peach with that?

29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

You don't get to tell someone else how to process their faith transition.  So how about you stop.

But i didn't even done that. Process your faitcrisis how you want. But don't forget to treath those who wanna stay within the church a little more decent. So how about you stop with attacking me. Maybe you don't see this as an attack. But i experience it as an attack everytime. 

29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

It has.

It has not. Oh my seriously

29 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Start with the book Rough Stone Rolling, written be a faithful Latter-day Saint.

I don't need to do that. And i find that the information in the CES letter is not relayable enough to know for sure that Joseph Smith was an......let's say a jerk and a lair. I feel like the proof is not strong enough. It stays speculation in my opinion. 

Edited September 20, 2024 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

I'm going to sleep now.

[Malc]

9 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

 

Okay but i have a different opinion about that. I hope you can have peach with that?

But i didn't even done that. Process your faitcrisis how you want. But don't forget to treath those who wanna stay within the church a little more decent. So how about you stop with attacking me. Maybe you don't see this as an attack. But i experience it as an attack everytime. 

It has not. Oh my seriously

I don't need to do that. And i find that the information in the CES letter is not relayable enough to know for sure that Joseph Smith was an......let's say a jerk and a lair. I feel like the proof is not strong enough. It stays speculation in my opinion. 

You said that you hadn't read the CES letter. If that is still true, how can you possibly evaluate its content?

Or have you read it now?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

I don't know about any other no-longer-believing Mormons, but now that I'm freed from the constraints of faith in God, Jesus, religion, etc., I indulge in all of the murder, rape, and pillage that I want to.

I must be broken since I don’t have the urge to murder, rape, and pillage. I do like to dress slutty occasionally but that hasn’t led to any murders yet. Maybe it takes a while.

[Malc]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I must be broken since I don’t have the urge to murder, rape, and pillage. I do like to dress slutty occasionally but that hasn’t led to any murders yet. Maybe it takes a while.

I'll let you know when my urge to murder, rape, and pillage rises above the level of zero.

From time to time, when it's hot, I walk about my little "office" at home in my underwear. Perhaps I should ask my wife if that qualifies as slutty.