Church members who leave the church

[Dario_M]

I notice that a lot of LDS members are leaving the church these days. Why is that? I also see a few anti Mormons on the board as well. I wonder....is it because of the CES letter that people have read? I myself don't belief that letter. 

For the people who have left the church...what was your reason for leaving the church if i may be so free to ask?

Well...at least i'm still a reliable member of the LDS community. 

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

also see a few anti Mormons on the board as well.

Anti Mormons aren’t just critical of the Church imo, they want to at the very least interfere with its operations (slow down missionary work, etc) and many desire to destroy it.
 

I don’t believe we know enough about the few posters who I see as might be anti Mormon*** to label them as such. They may want the Church to change its doctrine to more in line with their own interpretations rather than the Church ceasing to exist. 
 

There are a number of other critics who are former members on the board who want the Church to change in some way or the other (mostly transparency and treatment of minorities and women it seems to me), but have been clear they don’t see a need for the Church to disappear. 
 

***I see them as possibly anti Mormon in the sense they may believe our faith is a false religion inspired by Satan and want to help save people from it, so they are on the board debating our doctrine, though too often getting it wrong but not accepting our corrections on what our official doctrine is.  They are also not clear about why they are here, maybe they just like to debate religion, and so it’s hard to tell if their criticism rises to the level of anti mormon.

[Calm]

33 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

the people who have left the church...what was your reason for leaving the church if i may be so free to ask?

Just an fyi, If it gets too close to a testimony of leaving the Church, it may get shut down (see board guidelines).

[Dario_M]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

Anti Mormons aren’t just critical of the Church imo, they want to at the very least interfere with its operations (slow down missionary work, etc) and many desire to destroy it.
 

But isn't that not just a bad thing? I mean...if they're not a part of the church anymore why do they still wanna mengle themselfs into our business? 

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t believe we know enough about the few posters who I see as might be anti Mormon*** to label them as such. They may want the Church to change its doctrine to more in line with their own interpretations rather than the Church ceasing to exist. 
 

In the beggining i didn't even saw them at all. But after my other topic i made "John dehlin & Exmo lex" i pritty soon figured them out. 

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are a number of other critics who are former members on the board who want the Church to change in some way or the other (mostly transparency and treatment of minorities and women it seems to me), but have been clear they don’t see a need for the Church to disappear. 
 

That's a good thing. Our church may be a bit more transparant for some matters. I'm agree with that.

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

***I see them as possibly anti Mormon in the sense they may believe our faith is a false religion inspired by Satan and want to help save people from it.

Oh my...that's just ridic. The LDS church has nothing to do with Lucifer. 

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

  They are also not clear about why they are here.

I also ask myself that question. Not that i mind having them here. But somtimes i ask myself why they waste their precious time responding on the topics when they arent interested anymore in being a part of the church and want nothing to do with it anymore. 

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

Just an fyi, If it gets too close to a testimony of leaving the Church, it may get shut down (see board guidelines).

Oowh thank you i was not aware of that. 🩵

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

But isn't that not just a bad thing? I mean...if they're not a part of the church anymore why do they still wanna mengle themselfs into our business? 

For many who were raised in the church it is very hard to deal with cutting off so much of their previous life. For some there is a kind of fondness for it. For some there is anger. Others feel obliged to warn others not make the same “mistake” they did.

2 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Oh my...that's just ridic. The LDS church has nothing to do with Lucifer.

They sure do talk about him a lot though.

2 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I also ask myself that question. Not that i mind having them here. But somtimes i ask myself why they waste their precious time responding on the topics when they arent interesting anymore in being a part of the church and want nothing to do with it anymore. 

Processing what you have left behind can be healing. Healing isn’t always pretty. Sometimes it may not be healing. It is hard to know the difference.

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

why do they still wanna mengle themselfs into our business? 

Many have friends and family in it plus it may still feel like they are a part of the church family/community even if they no longer practice the faith.  A community is often made up of diverse members of different levels of commitment. 

I was born in San Francisco and even though I haven’t lived in the Bay Area (I lived more in the suburbs of San Francisco than I did in the city proper, but it’s important to me that I was born in the city and lived there in the beginning of my life and even if I lived in the suburbs, I always saw it as part of San Francisco) for 40 plus years, I still see myself as a San Franciscan and a Californian and it matters a great deal to me what happens there even though I dislike quite a few things that have happened to it in the last 60 years (way too crowded, too much traffic, way too expensive, I would not enjoy living there now as I don’t have enough money to make it the kind of life I would enjoy there).

Feeling like I couldn’t live in San Francisco at this point with all its changes doesn’t mean I am antiSan Fran.   
 

PS:  the only ones I see as possible antimormons on the board have never been members as far as I know, but are evangelical Christians. We have had antimormon exmormons on the board, but they generally go too far and become disrespectful and mocking and end up being banned.  We do have a number of exmormon critics on the board and I understand why others may see them as antimormon, but I don’t. 

Edited September 14 by Calm

[Dario_M]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

For many who were raised in the church it is very hard to deal with cutting off so much of their previous life. For some there is a kind of fondness for it. For some there is anger. Others feel obliged to warn others not make the same “mistake” they did.

Really? 

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They sure do talk about him a lot though.

That's not true. Most other churches talk way more about the devil. 

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Processing what you have left behind can be healing. Healing isn’t always pretty. Sometimes it may not be healing. It is hard to know the difference.

Healing? Healing from what? For leaving the church? Is that not a choice they make themselfs (except excomunications) ? 

[MrShorty]

If you are interested in more statistical data rather than testimonial, I might suggest David Ostler's "Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question" and Jana Riess and Ben Knowles' "The Next Mormons." The B. H. Roberts foundation has also done a survey, but I haven't seen a general publication of their findings. Jana Riess talked to them here: https://religionnews.com/2024/03/07/who-is-leaving-the-lds-church-8-key-survey-findings/

I'm still active in the church, but those adjacent to me who have left the church have mostly left over historical issues (like the priesthood and temple ban) and LGBTQ+ issues. For myself, I find the question of prophetic fallibility is central to the question of whether or not I will stay active in the church. If I decide that our prophets are no better or worse than other sources for discerning moral truth, then I will likely leave.

[Dario_M]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Many have friends and family in it plus it may still feel like they are a part of the church family/community even if they no longer practice the faith.  A community is often made up of diverse members of different levels of commitment. 

I was born in San Francisco and even though I haven’t lived in the Bay Area (I lived more in the suburbs of San Francisco than I did in the city proper, but it’s important to me that I was born in the city) for 40 plus years, I still see myself as a San Franciscan and a Californian and it matters a great deal to me what happens there even though I dislike quite a few things that have happened to it in the last 60 years (way too crowded, too much traffic, way too expensive, I would not enjoy living there now as I don’t have enough money to make it the kind of life I would enjoy there).

Feeling like I couldn’t live in San Francisco at this point with all its changes doesn’t mean I am artiSan Fran.   

I used to live in the suburbs of Alkmaar. In the Daalmeer area (you prop don't know those places😁) and i aften think back about that. I ask myself many times how the city is doing. How my neighborhood has changed. So i'm agree with you on that one.

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

13 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

If you are interested in more statistical data rather than testimonial, I might suggest David Ostler's "Bridges: Ministering to Those Who Question" and Jana Riess and Ben Knowles' "The Next Mormons." The B. H. Roberts foundation has also done a survey, but I haven't seen a general publication of their findings. Jana Riess talked to them here: https://religionnews.com/2024/03/07/who-is-leaving-the-lds-church-8-key-survey-findings/

 

Oh thank you so much. 

13 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

I'm still active in the church, but those adjacent to me who have left the church have mostly left over historical issues (like the priesthood and temple ban) and LGBTQ+ issues. For myself, I find the question of prophetic fallibility is central to the question of whether or not I will stay active in the church. If I decide that our prophets are no better or worse than other sources for discerning moral truth, then I will likely leave.

So it meight happen that you will leave the church at some point? Because of what the prophets preach? But is it not all about the love of Jesus Christ and the fait in him why we still stay in the church? 

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

However..i'm going to bed now. I'm having a major headache. Tomorrow i will continieu.   

Edited September 14 by Dario_M

[Rain]

I haven't left the church. I just no longer believe in it. My husband, parents, most of my siblings and 2 of my children are still active so I don't see myself leaving anytime soon though I no longer participate in some ways. 

It had nothing to do with the CES letter. I haven't even read it and I don't care to. It doesn't have to do with social issues. I just no longer believe. Explaing further would be against board rules.

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I notice that a lot of LDS members are leaving the church these days. Why is that? I also see a few anti Mormons on the board as well. I wonder....is it because of the CES letter that people have read? I myself don't belief that letter. 

For the people who have left the church...what was your reason for leaving the church if i may be so free to ask?

Well...at least i'm still a reliable member of the LDS community. 

People have always left the Church for one reason or another. I think better communication technology helps spread the particular reasons/justifications/blame and provides platforms for amplified self-expression and louder complaining. Whether the numbers are greater than the past or not, I cannot tell -- people used to just lapse into inactivity or quietly disappear but now they go through the trouble of writing formal letters of resignation and broadcasting on social media. I don't know why a "big reveal" production hasn't taken on like it did with baby genders. Dance interpretations, fireworks, flash mob, all kinds of performance art possible... Anyway, maybe in another 50 years the pendulum will swing back to just being content with what they really enjoy doing. Then again, maybe there is something to be said for joy in anger and contention over that of being left alone and leaving alone.

[Frank11]

[Frank11]

The first four reasons also apply to me, although I am formally a member but inactive.  But it's often a combination of reasons.

Another decisive factor is whether you have the opportunity to leave the church or not leave the church due to family circumstances. 

[MrShorty]

@Frank11, do you have the source for that chart? It looks familiar, but I can't remember who put that chart together based on what data.

 

[Frank11]

 

13 minutes ago, MrShorty said:

@Frank11, do you have the source for that chart? It looks familiar, but I can't remember who put that chart together based on what data.

 

If you scroll down the page you will find the graphic and further details.

https://wasmormon.org/personal-faith-crisis-report-research-summary/

[Dario_M]

I'm awake. Can't sleep anymore. Gonna read your comments. 😌

[Dario_M]

9 hours ago, Rain said:

I haven't left the church. I just no longer believe in it. My husband, parents, most of my siblings and 2 of my children are still active so I don't see myself leaving anytime soon though I no longer participate in some ways. 

Okay i understand. 

9 hours ago, Rain said:

It had nothing to do with the CES letter. I haven't even read it and I don't care to. It doesn't have to do with social issues. I just no longer believe. Explaing further would be against board rules.

Yeah i didn't know about those board rules btw. I should have looked into those rules a bit more carefully. 

[Dario_M]

7 hours ago, CV75 said:

People have always left the Church for one reason or another. I think better communication technology helps spread the particular reasons/justifications/blame and provides platforms for amplified self-expression and louder complaining. Whether the numbers are greater than the past or not, I cannot tell

I think the numbers are still high. Our church has a lot of money. That's because all the members who pay tithing (i don't). So i'm not worried about that. Yet.

7 hours ago, CV75 said:

-- people used to just lapse into inactivity or quietly disappear but now they go through the trouble of writing formal letters of resignation and broadcasting on social media.

Yeah. Like John Dehlin & Exmo Lex for example. 

7 hours ago, CV75 said:

I don't know why a "big reveal" production hasn't taken on like it did with baby genders. Dance interpretations, fireworks, flash mob, all kinds of performance art possible... Anyway, maybe in another 50 years the pendulum will swing back to just being content with what they really enjoy doing. Then again, maybe there is something to be said for joy in anger and contention over that of being left alone and leaving alone.

Who knows who knows. This church has also so many good thinks. And i'm a big believer of Jesus Christ anyway.

I always loved to go to the church. Even bevore i was a Mormon. I love the church. Any church. ✝️

Edited September 15 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

7 hours ago, Frank11 said:

The first four reasons also apply to me, although I am formally a member but inactive.  But it's often a combination of reasons.

Another decisive factor is whether you have the opportunity to leave the church or not leave the church due to family circumstances. 

Yeah i had that feeling with you in that other topic i made as well. I'm suprissed you're actually still in the church if i may be honest. I'm also not that active in the church either but i love to go on sunday. But temple work and such i don't do because that's a bit to much. The temple here is quite far away and i don't have a car anymore. And the public transportation here is just a mess. And if no one in my ward wants to give me a lift (wich they don't) i just won't do it. 

[Peacefully]

Staying in has been difficult for me the last few years because of the church’s stance on women in leadership roles and lgbtq+ issues. All of my children have left for one reason or another, and my husband and I are adult converts, so that lack of extended family in the church also makes it difficult. However, my husband has been tbm, until the other day when he told me he was unhappy at church and didn’t enjoy it anymore. Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. We talked a while and it came down to him being unhappy in the calling he has had for five years. I encouraged him to ask for a release, which the Bishop gave him with no problem. Bishop asked him what he wanted to do and he said we both like primary, so voila, we are now primary teachers. Idk, every time I think about stepping away, something like this pulls me back in - where I know God knows me and somehow this is where I’m supposed to be, at least for now, and that just has to be enough. I will also say that this board has helped me so much - members of all faiths or no faith coming together for discussions that we don’t have at church for various reasons. If this became an echo chamber for tbms only, I would have to move on. 

[Dario_M]

8 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Staying in has been difficult for me the last few years because of the church’s stance on women in leadership roles and lgbtq+ issues. All of my children have left for one reason or another, and my husband and I are adult converts, so that lack of extended family in the church also makes it difficult. However, my husband has been tbm, until the other day when he told me he was unhappy at church and didn’t enjoy it anymore.

Yeah well...in that case it's better just to leave the church indeed. If you're not happy in it. Then it will have no purpose to stay anymore. 

8 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Kind of hit me like a ton of bricks. We talked a while and it came down to him being unhappy in the calling he has had for five years. I encouraged him to ask for a release, which the Bishop gave him with no problem. Bishop asked him what he wanted to do and he said we both like primary, so voila, we are now primary teachers.

 

Oh really? So you guys are still in the church and happy with that?

8 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Idk, every time I think about stepping away, something like this pulls me back in - where I know God knows me and somehow this is where I’m supposed to be,

That's exactly how i feel as well. And i'm also seeking for Gods love. 

8 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

at least for now, and that just has to be enough. I will also say that this board has helped me so much - members of all faiths or no faith coming together for discussions that we don’t have at church for various reasons. If this became an echo chamber for tbms only, I would have to move on. 

Okay. Well..thank you for your insight anyway. 

Edited September 15 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

However...let's be happy today. It's sunday. So let's just injoy this day to the fullest. 

Edited September 15 by Dario_M