Is there a covenant about wearing temple garments in the temple, if not, was there?

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Ultimately we will all judged by the Man who is in charge of everything.

But that Man has a perfect understanding of what it means to be a woman.  And all are alike before Him.

I have yet to run into a mortal man who can manage that.  No mortal woman as well in fact, but we do tend to get a lot closer to understanding each other’s experiences that are unique to our biological gender.

Edited April 16, 2024 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

But that Man has a perfect understanding of what it means to be a woman.  And all are alike before Him.

I have yet to run into a mortal man who can manage that.  No mortal woman as well in fact, but we do tend to get a lot closer to understanding each other’s experiences that are unique to our biological gender.

That’s why I said “ultimately.”

[MustardSeed]

45 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That’s why I said “ultimately.”

I have no problem with God being the final word. His gender doesn’t impact His point of view. 

[manol]

53 minutes ago, Calm said:

But that Man has a perfect understanding of what it means to be a woman. 

I happen to think this is literally true, though the details of how have not (to the best of my knowledge) been articulated by the LDS Church.

From the 7th chapter of Alma, verses 11-13:

"And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people... and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.  Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance..."  [emphasis mine]

Imo these are some of the most interesting verses in the Book of Mormon.  What they describe here is vastly more first-hand knowledge than can be accounted for by Jesus' experiences during his thirty-three years of mortality.  This sounds to me like Christ knows first-hand what it's like to walk a mile (or more!) in your shoes, and in mine, and in everyone else's. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, manol said:

I happen to think this is literally true, though the details of how have not (to the best of my knowledge) been articulated by the LDS Church.

From the 7th chapter of Alma, verses 11-13:

"And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people... and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.  Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance..."  [emphasis mine]

Imo these are some of the most interesting verses in the Book of Mormon.  What they describe here is vastly more first-hand knowledge than can be accounted for by Jesus' experiences during his thirty-three years of mortality.  This sounds to me like Christ knows first-hand what it's like to walk a mile (or more!) in your shoes, and in mine, and in everyone else's. 

Yep. I think it ties into being one…a connection so clear it is as if he is us if he wants to be. 

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I have no problem with God being the final word. His gender doesn’t impact His point of view. 

Indeed; moreover, [His] and our gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity, purpose, and responsibilities.

[why me]

On 3/31/2024 at 4:38 AM, juliann said:

I doubt he knows the difference between yoga pants, leggings, and exercise tights, the later two probably the real beef. Because he is singling out younger women in particular, they don't tend to wear garments under tight exercise clothing. One of the things that I found unusual in SLC was so many women wearing exercise clothing when shopping. 

This seems more of an attempt to control clothing with garments merely being the means. There would be no point in targeting women and yoga pants if it was only about underwear. At least it didn't go into modesty rhetoric but it is still men policing women's bodies (and underwear) which is never a good look. 

I don't know if I would take it all too seriously. Maybe a woman should have given his talk. Then, it would be better, a sign that 'I have been there too.' But at the end of the day, one can wear what they want to wear. I don't think that most people would care who is wearing what. Too many other serious life issues out there these days.

[why me]

I think that when it comes to temple garments there needs to be common sense. If it is very hot, a person should not wear garments but rather dress for the occasion. A person needs to think of their health. Also, i don't think that people should feel forced to wear garments either. I don't actually see it all as a big deal. Live and let live. Now of course, if one is living surrounded by mormons, and it is hot and one decides to wear shorts and a tank top, would people actually care if they see a mormon in shorts and a tank top? I don't think so and if they do, so what. Comfort is important as is the health.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, why me said:

Comfort is important as is the health

I don’t know that I agree with this statement, but you’re entitled to what you believe of course. 

*It is in our discomfort that growth occurs.* And when it comes to clothing, there are many times I choose to be uncomfortable so that I am appropriate, socially compliant, and when it comes to garments, aligned with my promises and commitments.

If I honored only my comfort, I would never wear the garment. I would also never wear my wedding ring and I would also never wear heels. I would wear sweats everywhere. I would not wear a bra. I would not wear a seatbelt. And I most certainly would not wear a smile! I have a resting you - know-  what face.

But, I understand that people choose not to wear the garment for comfort reasons. That’s fine, that impacts me zero. I wish people understood better what they were getting into when they went to the temple so that they could make informed decisions. Maybe temple prep should be taught by a disgruntled co-teacher 😅Right now, part of taking out endowments is wearing the temple garment basically all the time. there is not a lot of room for personal interpretation of that outside of what sounds like  very occasional exceptions.

But I do know many people who choose not to wear them often. I have a close friend who will only wear them in the temple. I have a close friend who never wears them to sleep.  My kid hasn’t worn them in a month postpartum. 
 

on the other hand, I know people who wear them under their workout clothes. I know people who wear one piecers. I know people who rush in as soon as they are done swimming to put their garments back on, so they can come back out to the beach in their capris. 
 

I’ll do me.  You do you- and we will all be happy.  We will all answer to God, and I think we would ALL be shocked if we had a glimpse into what that will look like.  In the meantime, all we have is our integrity, our personal relationship with God, and honesty with ourselves to contend with.  

[ZealouslyStriving]

6 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I know people who wear one piecers

They still make those available?

[MustardSeed]

18 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

They still make those available?

Yes.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, why me said:

I think that when it comes to temple garments there needs to be common sense. If it is very hot, a person should not wear garments but rather dress for the occasion. A person needs to think of their health. Also, i don't think that people should feel forced to wear garments either. I don't actually see it all as a big deal. Live and let live. Now of course, if one is living surrounded by mormons, and it is hot and one decides to wear shorts and a tank top, would people actually care if they see a mormon in shorts and a tank top? I don't think so and if they do, so what. Comfort is important as is the health.

I "liked" this post because you bring up some good points. I'm currently inactive, and I still need to wear garments. One, because my body feels naked if I don't and two, I want my friends to accept me. It's like I'm living a lie sometimes. I've thought of finding underwear that is basically garments because I need something under the brazier, haha. It trained me to enjoy the non sticky feeling I guess, and having the material to absorb sweat I guess, plus it feels more comfortable or warmer. But others are totally different. The drawback was the garment neckline poking out. Drove me up a wall. Still does. Once I did a no no and cut the lace all around my tops. But in my neck of the woods women are expected to wear garments if they are endowed members. So yes, people do care if you wear a tank and shorts if you're an active endowed member. 

 

Edited April 16, 2024 by Tacenda

[Peacefully]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t know that I agree with this statement, but you’re entitled to what you believe of course. 

*It is in our discomfort that growth occurs.* And when it comes to clothing, there are many times I choose to be uncomfortable so that I am appropriate, socially compliant, and when it comes to garments, aligned with my promises and commitments.

If I honored only my comfort, I would never wear the garment. I would also never wear my wedding ring and I would also never wear heels. I would wear sweats everywhere. I would not wear a bra. I would not wear a seatbelt. And I most certainly would not wear a smile! I have a resting you - know-  what face.

But, I understand that people choose not to wear the garment for comfort reasons. That’s fine, that impacts me zero. I wish people understood better what they were getting into when they went to the temple so that they could make informed decisions. Maybe temple prep should be taught by a disgruntled co-teacher 😅Right now, part of taking out endowments is wearing the temple garment basically all the time. there is not a lot of room for personal interpretation of that outside of what sounds like  very occasional exceptions.

But I do know many people who choose not to wear them often. I have a close friend who will only wear them in the temple. I have a close friend who never wears them to sleep.  My kid hasn’t worn them in a month postpartum. 
 

on the other hand, I know people who wear them under their workout clothes. I know people who wear one piecers. I know people who rush in as soon as they are done swimming to put their garments back on, so they can come back out to the beach in their capris. 
 

I’ll do me.  You do you- and we will all be happy.  We will all answer to God, and I think we would ALL be shocked if we had a glimpse into what that will look like.  In the meantime, all we have is our integrity, our personal relationship with God, and honesty with ourselves to contend with.  

My husband and will start teaching temple prep classes next Sunday. It seems the safest thing to do if asked about wearing garments is to read the first presidency letter. I don’t want to impart cultural garment-wearing lore like I was exposed to back in the day (shouldn’t touch the floor, underwear over garments, etc.)

[why me]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I "liked" this post because you bring up some good points. I'm currently inactive, and I still need to wear garments. One, because my body feels naked if I don't and two, I want my friends to accept me. It's like I'm living a lie sometimes. I've thought of finding underwear that is basically garments because I need something under the brazier, haha. It trained me to enjoy the non sticky feeling I guess, and having the material to absorb sweat I guess, plus it feels more comfortable or warmer. But others are totally different. The drawback was the garment neckline poking out. Drove me up a wall. Still does. Once I did a no no and cut the lace all around my tops. But in my neck of the woods women are expected to wear garments if they are endowed members. So yes, people do care if you wear a tank and shorts if you're an active endowed member. 

 

I think that you should be true to yourself. If you wish to wear garments, then you should. But if a person wears garments because of the reasons you stated, especially the one about friends, I think that you need to do what feels comfortable to you. I don't wear garments. I haven't worn garments in years and years. Of course I don't live around Mormons. I think that people would get used to your new style.

[why me]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t know that I agree with this statement, but you’re entitled to what you believe of course. 

*It is in our discomfort that growth occurs.* And when it comes to clothing, there are many times I choose to be uncomfortable so that I am appropriate, socially compliant, and when it comes to garments, aligned with my promises and commitments.

If I honored only my comfort, I would never wear the garment. I would also never wear my wedding ring and I would also never wear heels. I would wear sweats everywhere. I would not wear a bra. I would not wear a seatbelt. And I most certainly would not wear a smile! I have a resting you - know-  what face.

But, I understand that people choose not to wear the garment for comfort reasons. That’s fine, that impacts me zero. I wish people understood better what they were getting into when they went to the temple so that they could make informed decisions. Maybe temple prep should be taught by a disgruntled co-teacher 😅Right now, part of taking out endowments is wearing the temple garment basically all the time. there is not a lot of room for personal interpretation of that outside of what sounds like  very occasional exceptions.

But I do know many people who choose not to wear them often. I have a close friend who will only wear them in the temple. I have a close friend who never wears them to sleep.  My kid hasn’t worn them in a month postpartum. 
it ffffffffffff

on the other hand, I know people who wear them under their workout clothes. I know people who wear one piecers. I know people who rush in as soon as they are done swimming to put their garments back on, so they can come back out to the beach in their capris. 
 

I’ll do me.  You do you- and we will all be happy.  We will all answer to God, and I think we would ALL be shocked if we had a glimpse into what that will look like.  In the meantime, all we have is our integrity, our personal relationship with God, and honesty with ourselves to contend with.  

I think that people need to do with what they personally feel comfortable with. But I have to say that if one goes to a place wear the temperature is 90 degrees and full of sunshine and humidity, it may be best not to wear garments. Dehydration may set in. When I look at the big picture today and all the problems that this world is experiencing I think that God wouldn't care if a member decides not to wear garments if by wearing them, it can cause overheating

[mfbukowski]

On 4/13/2024 at 2:48 PM, Tacenda said:

But many, many women have endured the pain either from UTI's, or other infections or also from rashes or also the mental part of wearing them, feeling uncomfortable in them or constantly fighting how they fit with even the modest of all clothing. Still wearing mine, so use to it I guess. But the message hasn't been clear on if these women can go w/o wearing them so much. 

Do you  think Father wants to torture you?   Are garments about making one closer to God or farther away from Him?

Pray and do what things are right for you, and know that God loves you.   He feels your pain as you do,  and I can't imagine he likes it either. 

 

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

Do you  think Father wants to torture you?   Are garments about making one closer to God or farther away from Him?

Pray and do what things are right for you, and know that God loves you.   He feels your pain as you do,  and I can't imagine he likes it either. 

 

Well, I know there's no one forcing me to. It's me, and that's all there is to it. Thanks for your support in being okay if I choose to forgo wearing them, haha. 

[Rain]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Do you  think Father wants to torture you?   Are garments about making one closer to God or farther away from Him?

Pray and do what things are right for you, and know that God loves you.   He feels your pain as you do,  and I can't imagine he likes it either. 

 

I completely agree, but it's so much easier said than done, especially if this is all you know and there is such a familial/cultural/religious push for keeping them on. You want to know your heart is in the right place to really hear what God wants over all those cultural whispers. 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

I completely agree, but it's so much easier said than done, especially if this is all you know and there is such a familial/cultural/religious push for keeping them on. You want to know your heart is in the right place to really hear what God wants over all those cultural whispers. 

Yes I understand that.   I had to leave behind a thousand years of Polish Catholicism with even today the highest church attendance of any country in Europe.

But eventually we all need to follow the Spirit to find OUR own way and purpose.

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Well, I know there's no one forcing me to. It's me, and that's all there is to it. Thanks for your support in being okay if I choose to forgo wearing them, haha. 

In a previous post you said:

Quote

But the message hasn't been clear on if these women can go w/o wearing them so much.

So either you want permission or you don't.

So I should have said that to the other unnamed women instead of you?   Either you are seeking permission or you are not.

[manol]

20 hours ago, Calm said:

Yep. I think it ties into being one…a connection so clear it is as if he is us if he wants to be. 

The phrase "according to the flesh" is repeated three times in those verses in Alma Chapter 7 in describing with how intimately Christ knows what we are going through.  And then there's this:

"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." - Jesus Christ

 

Edited April 17, 2024 by manol

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

In a previous post you said:

So either you want permission or you don't.

So I should have said that to the other unnamed women instead of you?   Either you are seeking permission or you are not.

Maybe so, but more that I'm so conditioned (?) to wear them, since '84. I guess something so close to the body? I don't seek permission, but maybe seek it for others if they need. I no longer feel it applies to me and my thought process. I find that my faith is enough, hopefully. So I probably am committing blasphemy by wearing them. But then again, it's in my being, being LDS. So don't know quite what to do. But thanks to you and others on here. I am certainly given plenty of leeway on the matter. 

[MiserereNobis]

19 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I had to leave behind a thousand years of Polish Catholicism

You can check out anytime you want, Mark, but you can never leave  

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

You can check out anytime you want, Mark, but you can never leave  

😆 🤓

My wife keeps kidding me that I am still a little Altar Boy.  She is LDS back to.... her great great grampa was one of the very first "Mormon" missionaries in England, but amazingly half of what I believe now came from her.   She is incredible.   She read my Rorty quote once, and then started teaching me perfectly the implications of the beliefs --- without ever reading any more of it than my quote here- and not a single class in philosophy.   She majored in Botany.

I kinda like her;   probably the most intelligent person  I know personally.

We both see it all as DOCTRINE and PARADIGMS in which we have faith- like the Golden Rule.   I mean what religion does NOT honor that belief? Atheists in general accept it, the Eastern religions all accept it- and on it goes!  

Some do the "sacraments" their way and others do it differently- but it always comes down to functioning as a reminder of Christ- what he has done for us, it is "Christ IN US" honoring that Christ consciousness in all of us.  That is the FUNCTION of the ceremony for all who practice it,

 

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I am certainly given plenty of leeway on the matter. 

Yeah, they call that "agency", and I for one am really happy that Eve decided there was some flexibility in questionable rules.

So have the guts to be Eve!