Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 I wonder if the CoC owns any historic property now outside of Missouri. Anyone know?
smac97 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 2 minutes ago, Calm said: After the last purchases, I did as well. It happened sooner than I expected and in a bigger amount as I expected a more piecemeal approach, a few here, a few there. A very, very good deal for LDS imo. I wonder if the Church of Christ, informally called Hedrickites and the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), might end up selling their portion of the Temple Lot. Thanks, -Smac
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) You might want to take the virtual tour now before it switches over. https://www.kirtlandtemple.org It does cost $7, but there is a free teaser. I suspect any virtual tour will be free by the end of the month, but might not be the same. There are also 8 YouTube videos for different parts of the Kirtland temple tour. I hope these don’t get taken down as part of the agreement, but in case they do, you might want to watch them… Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 2
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 I suspect it was a very good deal in part because the Church has been helping pay for restoration and maintenance costs on many sites in recent years (source is a friend). 1
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 6 minutes ago, smac97 said: I wonder if the Church of Christ, informally called Hedrickites and the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), might end up selling their portion of the Temple Lot. Thanks, -Smac Nope. The leadership and members are hard-core- no amount of money will get them to sell. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 1 hour ago, Calm said: Those are some wonderful artifacts…and the list of buildings is quite interesting. The Church can really pull together a nice picture of the background of Joseph and Emma’s life now. With the quality of tours that are usually done, I am almost tempted to break my no travel outside of Utah Valley rule (protection of health, not protection from the sinful hordes of the world ). Hmmm. I dunno! Gotta watch out for the Sinful Hordes of Babylon! (I know you probably don't consider your situation a laughing matter, and I wouldn't blame you. But if you're anything like me, and if your three choices are: (1) laugh, (2) cry, and/or (3) scream, I know which one I'm picking ... every time.)
Kenngo1969 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 54 minutes ago, Calm said: ... Would be kind of cool to have each tour have a CoC guide and an LDS guide. "I'm Elder Gourdin of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and this is my companion, Elder Smith of the Community of Christ ..." 2
Teancum Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 59 minutes ago, Buckeye said: I lived there 17 years. CoC were very generous in allowing our frequent use. For me this is bittersweet. We can take better care of the building because we have more funds (though they did a very admirable job). But we lose a tie to these brothers and they to us. When it was in their hands we still had access to use it but their ownership kept them tied, in a real sense, to Joseph and the restoration, and therefore to us. Hopefully they continue to revere that heritage but it will be harder for them. Sounds like they think they have better things to do with the resources that selling these will generate. I bet they got a bundle for them. By the way is was not just a tie to "brothers." 😁
smac97 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 47 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said: Quote I wonder if the Church of Christ, informally called Hedrickites and the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), might end up selling their portion of the Temple Lot. Nope. The leadership and members are hard-core- no amount of money will get them to sell. I have little information about these folks, but from the outside looking in, ownership of that parcel of real property kind of seems to be a substantial part of the group's raison d'etre. See, e.g., the group's 23rd and 24th Articles of Faith and Practice: Quote 23. We believe a temple will be built in this generation, in Independence, Missouri, wherein Christ will reveal himself and endow his servants whom he chooses with power to preach the gospel in all the world to every kindred, tongue and people, that the promises of God to Israel may be fulfilled. (Micah 4:1-2; Malachi 3:1-4; 3 Nephi 10:4; Ether 6:8) 24. We believe that a New Jerusalem shall be built upon this land "unto the remnant of the seed of Joseph. . . " ". . . which city shall be built, beginning at the Temple Lot." (3 Nephi 9:57-59, 10:1-4; Ether 6:6-8) If the Temple Lot is intrinsic to the group's legitimacy and authority, then it would make sense that the would never part with it. Thanks, -Smac Edited March 5, 2024 by smac97 1
Teancum Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 48 minutes ago, pogi said: Here is a comprehensive list of things purchased for a $192.5 million price-tag. Seems like a pretty good deal Ah I missed the price. Like I thought though. That is a hefty sum for the CoC. I hope they put it to good use.
Buckeye Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 1 minute ago, Teancum said: Sounds like they think they have better things to do with the resources that selling these will generate. I bet they got a bundle for them. By the way is was not just a tie to "brothers." 😁 I’m typing on a phone so a bit lazy. 1
Duncan Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 Lachlan MacKay, an Apostle for the CoC, put this video out. He is a standup man 3
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 25 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Hmmm. I dunno! Gotta watch out for the Sinful Hordes of Babylon! (I know you probably don't consider your situation a laughing matter, and I wouldn't blame you. But if you're anything like me, and if your three choices are: (1) laugh, (2) cry, and/or (3) scream, I know which one I'm picking ... every time.) I laugh all the time about it. The whole thing is absurd. Whoever came up with the human body and brain originally had to have a sense of twisted humor or didn’t know what they were doing. Too bad tradition doesn’t allow for major upgrades into less breakable forms. (Just in case anyone thinks I am serious, please note the smilie). 1
carbon dioxide Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said: Nope. The leadership and members are hard-core- no amount of money will get them to sell. The two most important temples of the last days, the temple mount in Jerusalem and in Independence, can't be build because of competing interests in ownership of the land don't allow for it. Just a strange thing. Either the Lord has caused this so that these two temples can not to built until the right time comes or the adversary has put his hands in to keep these temples built as he knows how bad they are for his sake. 1
blackstrap Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 We can blame the law of entropy , Calm. Order tends to disorder over time. That is my bone of contention with evolution. Mutations very, very rarely make things better.
randy Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 (edited) I was born and raised in Indep. Mo, so this eventuality has been discussed in all Restoration circles for decades. So, it is somewhat surreal to see it actually come into reality. I am beyond excited to hear this wonderful news. I believe the Church will go to great lengths to help our Restoration cousins continue to feel connected to these incredibly sacred sites and artifacts. I must confess though...I do hope the Church will keep these artifacts where they are at locally and not feel compelled to take them back to the Church History Museum. I would hope the original Liberty Jail Door will find itself at the Liberty Jail Visitors Center...as one example. But, such wonderful and exciting news! Oh...and all in due time regarding our Church of Christ Temple Lot cousins! Edited March 6, 2024 by randy 3
Nofear Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 The CoC announcement: https://account-media.s3.amazonaws.com/26072/uploaded/f/0e17693526_1709646629_faithfully-funding-our-future-05032024.pdf 1
MiserereNobis Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 Is there a greater theological excitement here? Is this fulfilling a prophecy? Or is it the excitement of getting historical sites? I see that the sites have to remain open to the public so they won’t be used as temples I assume.
smac97 Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 48 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Is there a greater theological excitement here? Is this fulfilling a prophecy? I don't think so. 48 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Or is it the excitement of getting historical sites? Yes. 48 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I see that the sites have to remain open to the public so they won’t be used as temples I assume. The Kirtland temple isn't set up for temple ordinances anyway. 1
Okrahomer Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 3 hours ago, Duncan said: Lachlan MacKay, an Apostle for the CoC, put this video out. He is a standup man Thanks for posting this. I agree with you: I like him. 2
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 (edited) 3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: The two most important temples of the last days, the temple mount in Jerusalem and in Independence, can't be build because of competing interests in ownership of the land don't allow for it. Just a strange thing. Either the Lord has caused this so that these two temples can not to built until the right time comes or the adversary has put his hands in to keep these temples built as he knows how bad they are for his sake. I personally believe the Lod has permitted the Church of Christ (TL) to maintain possession of the land to keep it out of the hands of Community of Christ leadership, until the proper time. If the Church (us) had owned it we would have lost it when we lost a lawsuit in the court of man concerning the successor of the church Joseph Smith founded. But because the Church of Christ (TL) returned to Independence in 1857 and purchased it outright the then RLDS Church failed in their lawsuit to obtain the land. Edited March 6, 2024 by ZealouslyStriving 2
Kenngo1969 Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 4 hours ago, Calm said: I laugh all the time about it. The whole thing is absurd. Whoever came up with the human body and brain originally had to have a sense of twisted humor or didn’t know what they were doing. Too bad tradition doesn’t allow for major upgrades into less breakable forms. (Just in case anyone thinks I am serious, please note the smilie). Thank God (literally!) for the resurrection! That's what I say!
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 "And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds." (Numbers 17:8)
Kenngo1969 Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said: Is there a greater theological excitement here? Is this fulfilling a prophecy? Or is it the excitement of getting historical sites? I see that the sites have to remain open to the public so they won’t be used as temples I assume. Though I'm inclined to answer your questions in the negative, I am of the opinion that there is tremendous significance [even if, largely, for the present, that significance is symbolic] in getting back property in an area from which some of my ancestors, violently, were expelled. (And more than a few people here would, I assume, be able to say the same.)
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