a_little_taller Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 Church purchases Kirtland Temple, other historic buildings and artifacts from Community of Christ – Church News (thechurchnews.com) 2
JLHPROF Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 Good. I wonder if they'll keep it as a historical attraction or renovate it for use as an actual temple. Historically speaking it was more of a tabernacle than a temple since the ordinances hadn't been restored yet. 1
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 10 minutes ago, a_little_taller said: Church purchases Kirtland Temple, other historic buildings and artifacts from Community of Christ – Church News (thechurchnews.com) Beat me by ten minutes! Dang For some reason I am more excited about this than the Nauvoo temple and I was pretty happy about that one. Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 2
bluebell Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Good. I wonder if they'll keep it as a historical attraction or renovate it for use as an actual temple. Historically speaking it was more of a tabernacle than a temple since the ordinances hadn't been restored yet. The article from the newsroom said it would remain a historical building and tours will begin again later this month. That makes sense to me. 3
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: wonder if they'll keep it as a historical attraction or renovate it for use as an actual temple. Keep it historic….I think the idea of passing stewardship of the buildings and other things is an excellent way of putting it, a sense of shared ownership as there should be, imo. Quote “We are deeply honored to assume the stewardship of these sacred places, documents and artifacts,” said President Russell M. Nelson, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “We thank our friends at Community of Christ for their great care and cooperation in preserving these historical treasures thus far. We are committed to doing the same.” Community of Christ President Stephen M. Veazey said the exchange of assets is significant for his church. “Through funding from increased endowments, Community of Christ will have greater capacity to pursue our mission priorities around the world, including continuing to fulfill the divinely envisioned purposes for our temple in Independence, Missouri.” The Kirtland Temple will remain an historic building and will not be converted into an operating Latter-day Saint temple, according to the question-and-answer statement released by the Church of Jesus Christ and the Community of Christ. Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 1
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bluebell said: The article from the newsroom said it would remain a historical building and tours will begin again later this month. That makes sense to me. Different sort of tour though, I am thinking. My husband just went this past fall with our grandson. Now he will have to go back to see the differences. Hopefully the tour will still speak to those of the Community of Christ and the restoration branches. Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 3
ksfisher Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I wonder if they'll keep it as a historical attraction or renovate it for use as an actual temple. 12. Will the Kirtland Temple be converted into a functioning Latter-day Saint temple? No. The Kirtland Temple will be maintained and presented as a historic building that is open to the public. President Russell M. Nelson announced a temple in Cleveland in April 2022, and the Church released its site address in December 2022 and a rendering in July 2023. From the Newsroom FAQ 1
JLHPROF Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 Too bad it can't be used as God originally intended.
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) Quote most significant properties are: Kirtland Temple. Smith Family Homestead. Mansion House. Nauvoo House. Red Brick Store. Significant documents and artifacts include: Manuscripts and the Bible used in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. Seven letters from Joseph Smith to his wife Emma. John Whitmer’s history of the Church. Original portraits of Joseph and Emma Smith. The cornerstone of the Nauvoo House. The original door of Liberty Jail. A document with the title of “Caractors,” which may contain a sample of inscriptions from the gold plates. Those are some wonderful artifacts…and the list of buildings is quite interesting. The Church can really pull together a nice picture of the background of Joseph and Emma’s life now. With the quality of tours that are usually done, I am almost tempted to break my no travel outside of Utah Valley rule (protection of health, not protection from the sinful hordes of the world ). Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 3
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Too bad it can't be used as God originally intended. Maybe it will eventually (if it survives the second coming).
cujo22 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 8 minutes ago, bluebell said: The article from the newsroom said it would remain a historical building and tours will begin again later this month. That makes sense to me. Maybe not as good of a tour though. It'd be tough to beat the tour I got there. I think the tour guide was someone in university studying the history of it or something. Can't exactly remember.
Tacenda Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 2 minutes ago, Calm said: Those are some wonderful artifacts…and the list of buildings is quite interesting. Red Brick Store….hummm…. I remember visiting this store during my crisis of faith and they had a book for sale that I think was a compilation of JS's Bible translations. But memory is pretty foggy. It may have been something totally different. I was bummed we didn't make it to the Kirkland temple. 1
ksfisher Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Too bad it can't be used as God originally intended. How much renovation would the building in Kirtland need to be converted to a functioning temple? I'd bet that there would be so much that little of the interior would remain as is. With the temple being built in Cleveland the Kirtland building may be able to serve a greater purpose as a missionary tool. 3
bluebell Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 6 minutes ago, cujo22 said: Maybe not as good of a tour though. It'd be tough to beat the tour I got there. I think the tour guide was someone in university studying the history of it or something. Can't exactly remember. I've never been, but that could definitely be. My friend lived in that stake a few years ago and she said the CC were always very kind. They let their stake use it for some stake meetings sometimes. 2
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I remember visiting this store during my crisis of faith and they had a book for sale that I think was a compilation of JS's Bible translations. But memory is pretty foggy. It may have been something totally different. I was bummed we didn't make it to the Kirkland temple. I think it likely. I had a similar book produced by them I bought back in my college years, so late 1970s. https://www.redbrickstore.com/product/joseph-smith-s-new-translation-of-the-bible/1?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=3 Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm
Popular Post Buckeye Posted March 5, 2024 Popular Post Posted March 5, 2024 15 minutes ago, Calm said: Keep it historic….I think the idea of passing stewardship of the buildings and other things is an excellent way of putting it, a sense of shared ownership as there should be, imo. Yes, keep it historic. We can (and have) built hundreds of temples for current ordinances, including one under construction about 30 minutes from Kirtland. Were we to renovate Kirtland so much would be lost. Does anyone really want to tear out the podium where Christ stood? Blasphemy in my book. Also, we sustain the law of the land. The Kirtland Temple is protected from substantial alteration by being on the register of historic places. 5
Lemuel Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 15 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Too bad it can't be used as God originally intended. Go on...
Buckeye Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: I've never been, but that could definitely be. My friend lived in that stake a few years ago and she said the CC were always very kind. They let their stake use it for some stake meetings sometimes. I lived there 17 years. CoC were very generous in allowing our frequent use. For me this is bittersweet. We can take better care of the building because we have more funds (though they did a very admirable job). But we lose a tie to these brothers and they to us. When it was in their hands we still had access to use it but their ownership kept them tied, in a real sense, to Joseph and the restoration, and therefore to us. Hopefully they continue to revere that heritage but it will be harder for them. Edited March 5, 2024 by Buckeye 3
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 (edited) 31 minutes ago, cujo22 said: Maybe not as good of a tour though. It'd be tough to beat the tour I got there. I think the tour guide was someone in university studying the history of it or something. Can't exactly remember. Hopefully they will keep much (all?) of the CoC tour and simply add what was missing that we see as important, such as the visitation of angels for the dedication which my husband says was left out and other divine manifestations. https://www.ldsliving.com/when-the-kirtland-and-nauvoo-temples-were-engulfed-in-spiritual-fire/s/86126 Would be kind of cool to have each tour have a CoC guide and an LDS guide. Edited March 5, 2024 by Calm 3
Popular Post Buckeye Posted March 5, 2024 Popular Post Posted March 5, 2024 One my life’s highlights was being invited to sing in a combined choir for the 175th anniversary. My session was at sunrise. I can’t describe the feeling of watching the sun come through the east window as LDS and CoC sang The Spirit of God together. 5
smac97 Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 47 minutes ago, a_little_taller said: Church purchases Kirtland Temple, other historic buildings and artifacts from Community of Christ – Church News (thechurchnews.com) Wow! Very cool! I have suspected for some time now that this would happen. From the article: Quote The most significant properties are: Kirtland Temple. Smith Family Homestead. Mansion House. Nauvoo House. Red Brick Store. Significant documents and artifacts include: Manuscripts and the Bible used in the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. Seven letters from Joseph Smith to his wife Emma. John Whitmer’s history of the Church. Original portraits of Joseph and Emma Smith. The cornerstone of the Nauvoo House. The original door of Liberty Jail. A document with the title of “Caractors,” which may contain a sample of inscriptions from the gold plates. This is not the first transaction of historic materials between the two churches — which enjoy “a strong, respectful and friendly relationship.” Thanks, -Smac 1
Popular Post pogi Posted March 5, 2024 Popular Post Posted March 5, 2024 Here is a comprehensive list of things purchased for a $192.5 million price-tag. Seems like a pretty good deal. Appendix: List of Items Transferred Historic Buildings that Will Remain Open to the Public in Kirtland, Ohio Kirtland Temple, 9020 Chillicothe Road Historic Buildings that Will Remain Open to the Public in Nauvoo, Illinois Smith Family Homestead and Summer Kitchen, 935 South Main Street Joseph and Emma Smith Mansion House, 890 South Main Street Red Brick Store (reconstructed), 610 Water Street Nauvoo House, 950 South Main Street Historical Artifacts Portraits of Joseph and Emma Smith, circa 1842, attributed to David Rogers Original door of Liberty Jail, circa 1833 Book of Mormon “Caractors” document Four pages from Revelation Book 1, including portions of revelations now known as Doctrine and Covenants 64, 65, 66, 76, 81, and 133 Seven letters from Joseph to Emma Smith, including letters written on 13 October 1832, 18 May 1834, 4 November 1838, 12 November 1838, 9 November 1839, 23 June 1844, and 27 June 1844 A history of the church, written by John Whitmer Manuscript notes of an 1879 interview with Emma Smith by Joseph Smith III Joseph Smith's printed “Phinney” Bible (Cooperstown, New York, 1828) with his numerous markings as part of the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible Manuscripts of the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible: Old Testament manuscript 1 (June 1830–7 March 1831) Old Testament manuscript 2, first part (8 March–5 April 1831) Old Testament manuscript 2, second part (20 July 1832–2 July 1833) Old Testament manuscript 3 (ca. late 1830–early 1831) New Testament manuscript 1 (8 March–June 1831) New Testament manuscript 2, Folio 1 (4 Apr 1831–26 Sep 1831) New Testament manuscript 2, Folio 2 (26 Sep 1831–late 1831) New Testament manuscript 2, Folio 3 (winter 1831–1832) New Testament manuscript 2, Folio 4 (January/February 1832–31 July 1832) Publication committee manuscripts for the first complete edition of the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible as The Holy Scriptures (1867) Joseph Smith writing desk (Kirtland Temple) 1820s couch associated with the Whitney family (Kirtland Temple) Original elements of the Kirtland temple: Oval window frame Front door keystone and frame Stone arch Windows Pieces of original stucco and sandstone Nauvoo Temple Sunstone Two Nauvoo Temple Moonstones Nauvoo House cornerstone, which housed the Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon Joseph Smith desk (Mansion House) Emma Smith trunk (Mansion House) Lucy Mack Smith rocking chair (Mansion House) Two Smith family chairs (Mansion House) Emma Smith walking stick (Homestead) Washstand associated with Hawn’s Mill (Homestead) Sampler (Homestead) Bowl (Homestead) Three inkwells (Red Brick Store) In addition, the transfer includes the vast majority of representative period artifacts that are currently on display in the historic buildings (most of these artifacts are not historically associated with the Smith family or with Nauvoo). Non-Historic Buildings in Kirtland Temple Visitor’s Center, 9076 Chillicothe Road Private residence and shop, 7788 Maple Street Private residence, 7799 Joseph Street Private residence, 9120 Timothy Lane Small Undeveloped Lots in Kirtland [unnumbered] Joseph Street 9080 Chillicothe Road Historic Buildings with Modernized Interiors in Nauvoo (Private Use) Hiram and Thankful Clark home, 790 Soth Hyde Street Aaron and Polly Johnson home, 475 Water Street William and Rosannah Marks home, 575 Water Street Sidney and Phebe Rigdon home, 860 South Main Street Jonathan and Rebecca Wright home, 455 Water Street The First Hotel, 795 South Main Street A stone stable built by Lewis Bidamon, 940 South Main Street Non-Historic Buildings in Nauvoo Maintenance Shop, Bain Street All Nauvoo Blocks and Lots (indexed to the 1842 Map of the City of Nauvoo) Block 137, Lot 4 – no structures Block 138 – no structures Block 139, lots 3-4 – includes the First Hotel Block 140, lots 3-4 – no structures Block 145 – no structures Block 146 – includes the Joseph Smith Historic Site Visitor’s Center (initially leased by the Church and subject to a secondary closing at a later date), James and Sally Brinkerhoff former home site, and Levi and Clarissa Hancock former home site Block 147 – includes the Mansion House, Rigdon home, Clark home, Samuel and Levira Smith former home site, and Theodore and Frances Turley former home site Block 148 – includes the William Law store former site Block 149 – includes the Marks home, public restrooms, a Hyrum Smith office former site, and the Times and Seasons newspaper office former site Block 150 – includes the Johnson home, Wright home, maintenance shop Block 153 – no structures Block 154 – includes a Hyrum Smith office former site Block 155 – includes the Red Brick Store and the Smith Homestead and summer kitchen; does not include the Smith Family Cemetery Block 156 – includes the Nauvoo House, Bidamon stable, Joseph Smith red brick stable former home site, Joseph Sr. and Lucy Smith former home site, Porter Rockwell former home site, and a parking area Block 157 – no structures Block 158, lots 2-3 – includes private residence (960 South Partridge Street) Block 161 – no structures Block 162 – no structures https://www.ksl.com/article/50940214/church-announces-purchase-of-historic-kirtland-temple-other-historic-sites-and-manuscripts 6
Calm Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 6 minutes ago, smac97 said: Wow! Very cool! I have suspected for some time now that this would happen. After the last purchases, I did as well. It happened sooner than I expected and in a bigger amount as I expected a more piecemeal approach, a few here, a few there. Quote Here is a comprehensive list of things purchased for a $192.5 million price-tag. Seems like a pretty good deal. A very, very good deal for LDS imo. 1
Teancum Posted March 5, 2024 Posted March 5, 2024 58 minutes ago, a_little_taller said: Church purchases Kirtland Temple, other historic buildings and artifacts from Community of Christ – Church News (thechurchnews.com) Wow I am surprised. Looks like the CoC sold off most the historic sites that still owned. Would love to know the purchase price for all of this.
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