The Nehor Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said: Nope. The leadership and members are hard-core- no amount of money will get them to sell. I have heard there was a soft sales offer back in the 60s or 70s but the details I was able to get from the two people I talked to who knew about it make me think it might have been a maverick apostle on their end acting without the consent of the rest and it obviously never went anywhere.
Tacenda Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 5 hours ago, Calm said: I think it likely. I had a similar book produced by them I bought back in my college years, so late 1970s. https://www.redbrickstore.com/product/joseph-smith-s-new-translation-of-the-bible/1?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=3 That's the one, thanks for finding it, pretty reassuring as far as my memory. 1
The Nehor Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 6 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Too bad it can't be used as God originally intended. It wasn’t built to perform the full ordinance we use today. There were some preparatory ordinances done but using it as a modern temple would require a complete renovation and possibly a rebuild. 2
webbles Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 I'm going through the list of properties sold and I'm not sure what the Community of Christ still has in Kirtland and Nauvoo after this sale. The Historical Sites Foundation (Community of Christ's organization that manages their historical properties) has been updated to not include any Kirtland or Nauvoo properties. I did find one reference that the Smith Family Cemetery in Nauvoo wasn't sold. Any other properties that still might be owned by the Community of Christ in Kirtland and Nauvoo? 1
blackstrap Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 I await the lawsuits from folks who don't want resources spent on non money making items. 👿 1
The Nehor Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 2 minutes ago, blackstrap said: I await the lawsuits from folks who don't want resources spent on non money making items. 👿 They might be planning to cut up the Kirtland Temple and feed it to the poor. You don’t know! 1
gopher Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 8 hours ago, blackstrap said: I await the lawsuits from folks who don't want resources spent on non money making items. 👿 Would it help if the church continued to charge the $10 to tour the temple? I was there 10 years ago, but only had to pay $5 to the hippie playing the sitar in the visitor center. He was cool. 3
Tacenda Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 1 hour ago, gopher said: Would it help if the church continued to charge the $10 to tour the temple? I was there 10 years ago, but only had to pay $5 to the hippie playing the sitar in the visitor center. He was cool. I liked the tour of the Community of Christ's temple, and they'd show original artifacts such as an original BoM etc. Quite the museum of LDS artifacts. The spiral going up, wasn't my favorite though. And one of the home tours by them was cool where they'd shown a place Joseph Smith had to hide out when he was being chased by law enforcement I believe, now can't remember, or the mobs.
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 Keeping it as a common religious historical site is the best thing to do, unless we want to completely alienate our Restoration cousins and burn all those bridges that have been built. 1
Teancum Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 Based on what I am seeing from some FB friends and groups that have some CoC members in, it seems many are very unhappy about the transaction. They are harsh with their leadership and of course they are lashing out verbally about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints purchasing the property. It is an intriguing dynamic. 2
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 8 minutes ago, Teancum said: Based on what I am seeing from some FB friends and groups that have some CoC members in, it seems many are very unhappy about the transaction. They are harsh with their leadership and of course they are lashing out verbally about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints purchasing the property. It is an intriguing dynamic. If we handle it the right way they will eventually come to see that it was for the best. 2
Pyreaux Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 Forget the tourism, we've just bought back a book of scriptures! With the JST manuscript (with the rights I assume) and even the Bible used (with any marks there-in), we have everything we could need to finally publish an LDS JST Bible. We can throw out the KJV, or add the JST to the PoGP, or make it an Interlinear or Red Letter JST Bible. Some consider it unfinished, we can "finish" it and no one can stop us. 2
Teancum Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 14 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said: I personally believe the Lod has permitted the Church of Christ (TL) to maintain posseeally ssion of the land to keep it out of the hands of Community of Christ leadership, until the proper time. If the Church (us) had owned it we would have lost it when we lost a lawsuit in the court of man concerning the successor of the church Joseph Smith founded. But because the Church of Christ (TL) returned to Independence in 1857 and purchased it outright the then RLDS Church failed in their lawsuit to obtain the land. You really believe that? Seems to me that the CoC simply needed $$ and felt the cost of maintaining the properties was more than it was worth. CoC is a really small denomination. Only a few hundred thousand members. No god involved here. Just how things worked out.
Teancum Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 54 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said: If we handle it the right way they will eventually come to see that it was for the best. Why is it for the best? I doubt the CoC members I know will ever feel great about it. They have lost a large part of their heritage. How would you feel if our church sold the Grandin Building in Palmyra? Or the Sacred Grove. I live in Palmyra NY and there are still a lot of sad and hurt feeling about the ending of the Hill Cumorah Pageant among the local members here. It was an important part of their life and many felt a great loss when it was simply abruptly ended with little to no explanation. 2
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 14 minutes ago, Teancum said: You really believe that? Seems to me that the CoC simply needed $$ and felt the cost of maintaining the properties was more than it was worth. CoC is a really small denomination. Only a few hundred thousand members. No god involved here. Just how things worked out. I think you are misunderstanding my post.
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 10 minutes ago, Teancum said: Why is it for the best? I doubt the CoC members I know will ever feel great about it. They have lost a large part of their heritage. How would you feel if our church sold the Grandin Building in Palmyra? Or the Sacred Grove. I live in Palmyra NY and there are still a lot of sad and hurt feeling about the ending of the Hill Cumorah Pageant among the local members here. It was an important part of their life and many felt a great loss when it was simply abruptly ended with little to no explanation. Many Community of Christ members have no real affinity for the Restoration distinctives. I'm referring more to the independent RLDS Restorationists who may feel some kind of way about this.
Teancum Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 42 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said: I think you are misunderstanding my post. Ok. Can you help me understand?
Teancum Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 40 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said: Many Community of Christ members have no real affinity for the Restoration distinctives. I'm referring more to the independent RLDS Restorationists who may feel some kind of way about this. I am not sure that is correct. Two of the CoC members I know, and are known by a few LDS people, are Gina Colvin and John Hamer. Both are honestly sad about this. 1
Calm Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teancum said: Seems to me that the CoC simply needed $$ and felt the cost of maintaining the properties was more than it was worth. CoC is a really small denomination. The Church of Christ (TL), which he was talking about, is not the Community of Christ. The Church of Christ has sold nothing and is highly unlikely to as that stewardship is their reason for existing. And he was referring to the Community of Christ having likely lost the property in the past if they had possession of it when they were legally declared not the rightful owners of certain church properties unlike those who are currently in possession of the Temple Lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Lot_Case Edited March 6, 2024 by Calm 3
Calm Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 19 hours ago, randy said: I must confess though...I do hope the Church will keep these artifacts where they are at locally and not feel compelled to take them back to the Church History Museum. I would think the documents will likely be taken back to the CHM so as to be kept under high security as well as with proper preservation techniques, but most of the rest seems likely to be used in the relevant exhibits. I find that type of usage more meaningful than keeping them in a big museum where they are just one of many.
Smiley McGee Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 (edited) 19 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Is there a greater theological excitement here? Is this fulfilling a prophecy? Or is it the excitement of getting historical sites? I see that the sites have to remain open to the public so they won’t be used as temples I assume. No fulfillment of prophecy or theological significance. Don't think (and hope) the purchase will even affect you're rank and file member's (or the public's) access to the sites. There's an argument to be made that the Utah church has the resources to maintain the sites indefinitely, while others don't currently. We're just tribal and think it should have been ours all along. Brigham Young is rubbing this in Emma's face. Edited March 6, 2024 by Smiley McGee
Calm Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Smiley McGee said: Brigham Young is rubbing this in Emma's face. I hope not… I think the way the Church has phrased it as stewardship, taking turns at it, suggests they are trying very hard not to convey any sense of “we won!”, etc. I think Church leadership really wants any gloating to be stopped before it starts. I agree there is likely a sense for believing members that these properties are coming home for many, maybe most. Me…when I collect things I get obsessed about having the whole set, so that is a big part of it, lol. A vicarious collector’s instinct. I also used to be the family genealogist/historian who kept care of all the family treasures (mainly photos, a few pieces of furniture) and documents, so that part of me is happy about the greater control/possession. There is no reason for me not to trust the CoC to do their best, but the properties and artifacts just feel safer with an organization I identify with and who I know invest effort and resources in protecting historical items quite well, I am guessing. Edited March 6, 2024 by Calm 3
ZealouslyStriving Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 4 hours ago, Teancum said: I am not sure that is correct. Two of the CoC members I know, and are known by a few LDS people, are Gina Colvin and John Hamer. Both are honestly sad about this. I said "Many..." not "All". 1
LoudmouthMormon Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 By the way, working with the CoC, we digitized the original manuscript (including the 1823 Bible Joseph used when creating his translation/revision) a while ago. It's been available online and searchable, for years. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/the-papers/revelations-and-translations/jsppr5?fbclid=IwAR2zWAx2uF83dUTb1pprOZ-EDv8XdXofn9DWJ7Pdx1_bxJcdBObNp6-v0uo 3
Smiley McGee Posted March 6, 2024 Posted March 6, 2024 1 hour ago, Calm said: I hope not… I think the way the Church has phrased it as stewardship, taking turns at it, suggests they are trying very hard not to convey any sense of “we won!”, etc. I think Church leadership really wants any gloating to be stopped before it starts. I agree there is likely a sense for believing members that these properties are coming home for many, maybe most. Me…when I collect things I get obsessed about having the whole set, so that is a big part of it, lol. A vicarious collector’s instinct. I also used to be the family genealogist/historian who kept care of all the family treasures (mainly photos, a few pieces of furniture) and documents, so that part of me is happy about the greater control/possession. There is no reason for me not to trust the CoC to do their best, but the properties and artifacts just feel safer with an organization I identify with and who I know invest effort and resources in protecting historical items quite well, I am guessing. Don’t get me wrong, with regards to historical preservation, I think the properties are in safer hands with the Utah church due to its vast resources. Don’t know that the CoC could have held on to them without the Utah church’s help. My comment about Emma and BY was more tongue in cheek…but he sure hated her.
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