New Church policy standardizes ward and stake creation requirements

[Teancum]

Have the new guidelines for stake and ward sizes been discussed here?  If so perhaps I missed it.  Here are two articles that outline the new guidelines:

https://www.ldsliving.com/new-church-policy-standardizes-ward-and-stake-creation-requirements/s/11901

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-uniform-worldwide-standards-for-ward-and-stake-boundaries

 

I must say I was a bit surprised about the reduced number of active members, priesthood holders, full tithe payers and so on. It seems it has been sometime since the church has changed requirements for ward and stake numbers. Last time the numbers were reduced and here we are again with the further reductions.  I think the units will be to small and units will struggle. But it seems there is still flexibility. For example, in my stake they recently peeled off parts of four wards and created another ward. And the recreated new wards out of the ones that were changed so all new leadership positions changed.  Two of the wards already shared one building.  And the  new ward will share a building with a ward that was previously alone. The schedule will be like this:  Ward 1 has sacrament meeting and 9 am.  Second hour is combined with ward 1 and 2.  Then ward 2 has sacrament meeting.  Primary, RS, youth activities will be combined between the two wards sharing the building and they will figure out who leads out on things each week.  I see pluses and minuses in this.  But the area where I live has had no net growth in decades.  And in fact the ward with the most attendance weekly was at 200.  Heck when I was bishop of the Palmyra ward we had 250 not counting visitors.  So they have taken members from four wards to create a new ward and all wards are smaller.  One of the wards, my ward in Palmyra, had members taken but they are still alone in the building. I think that will hurt an already shrinking ward.  They have no one to partner up with.

What are others thoughts on this?  Have you seen boundary changes or other impacts on units where you live?

 

[Vanguard]

6 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Have the new guidelines for stake and ward sizes been discussed here?  If so perhaps I missed it.  Here are two articles that outline the new guidelines:

https://www.ldsliving.com/new-church-policy-standardizes-ward-and-stake-creation-requirements/s/11901

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-uniform-worldwide-standards-for-ward-and-stake-boundaries

 

I must say I was a bit surprised about the reduced number of active members, priesthood holders, full tithe payers and so on. It seems it has been sometime since the church has changed requirements for ward and stake numbers. Last time the numbers were reduced and here we are again with the further reductions.  I think the units will be to small and units will struggle. But it seems there is still flexibility. For example, in my stake they recently peeled off parts of four wards and created another ward. And the recreated new wards out of the ones that were changed so all new leadership positions changed.  Two of the wards already shared one building.  And the  new ward will share a building with a ward that was previously alone. The schedule will be like this:  Ward 1 has sacrament meeting and 9 am.  Second hour is combined with ward 1 and 2.  Then ward 2 has sacrament meeting.  Primary, RS, youth activities will be combined between the two wards sharing the building and they will figure out who leads out on things each week.  I see pluses and minuses in this.  But the area where I live has had no net growth in decades.  And in fact the ward with the most attendance weekly was at 200.  Heck when I was bishop of the Palmyra ward we had 250 not counting visitors.  So they have taken members from four wards to create a new ward and all wards are smaller.  One of the wards, my ward in Palmyra, had members taken but they are still alone in the building. I think that will hurt an already shrinking ward.  They have no one to partner up with.

What are others thoughts on this?  Have you seen boundary changes or other impacts on units where you live?

 

Interesting. It will undoubtedly require more participation from what remaining members there are in each ward. I would agree, however, that increasing the number of wards does not always equate to an increase in number of members.

In fairness though, the only thing I am thinking about is my growing anticipation re: our upcoming trip to Palmyra this summer! We won't be there on Sunday for services but do plan on swinging by the temple and possibly doing some temple work if I can only get my 16 yros to secure her conditional use permit again. Otherwise, we'll be taking a look at downtown as well as the Erie Canal 'port' you have there. This is definitely a high point of our summer trip in addition to the Priesthood Restoration site, Niagara Falls, and NYC. ; ) 

[Teancum]

8 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Interesting. It will undoubtedly require more participation from what remaining members there are in each ward. I would agree, however, that increasing the number of wards does not always equate to an increase in number of members.

In fairness though, the only thing I am thinking about is my growing anticipation re: our upcoming trip to Palmyra this summer! We won't be there on Sunday for services but do plan on swinging by the temple and possibly doing some temple work if I can only get my 16 yros to secure her conditional use permit again. Otherwise, we'll be taking a look at downtown as well as the Erie Canal 'port' you have there. This is definitely a high point of our summer trip in addition to the Priesthood Restoration site, Niagara Falls, and NYC. ; ) 

Let me know when you are in town and I will buy you and yours some pizza or a sandwich.  There is a place called Muddy Waters (A sandwich shop) right on the canal. How long are will you be in the Palmyra area?  Oh, and if you all like ice cream a place called The Chill and Grill is rather famous.  Good ice cream and very generous servings.  A half kiddie cone is enough for me at two scopes.  Latter-day Saints that visit here love the place.

[Calm]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:31 PM, Teancum said:

Have the new guidelines for stake and ward sizes been discussed here?  If so perhaps I missed it.  Here are two articles that outline the new guidelines:

https://www.ldsliving.com/new-church-policy-standardizes-ward-and-stake-creation-requirements/s/11901

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-uniform-worldwide-standards-for-ward-and-stake-boundaries

 

I must say I was a bit surprised about the reduced number of active members, priesthood holders, full tithe payers and so on. It seems it has been sometime since the church has changed requirements for ward and stake numbers. Last time the numbers were reduced and here we are again with the further reductions.  I think the units will be to small and units will struggle. But it seems there is still flexibility. For example, in my stake they recently peeled off parts of four wards and created another ward. And the recreated new wards out of the ones that were changed so all new leadership positions changed.  Two of the wards already shared one building.  And the  new ward will share a building with a ward that was previously alone. The schedule will be like this:  Ward 1 has sacrament meeting and 9 am.  Second hour is combined with ward 1 and 2.  Then ward 2 has sacrament meeting.  Primary, RS, youth activities will be combined between the two wards sharing the building and they will figure out who leads out on things each week.  I see pluses and minuses in this.  But the area where I live has had no net growth in decades.  And in fact the ward with the most attendance weekly was at 200.  Heck when I was bishop of the Palmyra ward we had 250 not counting visitors.  So they have taken members from four wards to create a new ward and all wards are smaller.  One of the wards, my ward in Palmyra, had members taken but they are still alone in the building. I think that will hurt an already shrinking ward.  They have no one to partner up with.

What are others thoughts on this?  Have you seen boundary changes or other impacts on units where you live?

 

I think smaller wards are beneficial for getting to know people and feeling one matters. I really enjoyed my time in a branch in Moscow. 

It does make it hard to have enough youth to divide up by age and  enough people to fill teaching positions as well as leadership. In ours the leaders were the teachers and we had two classes in Primary, the Junior Prinary class and the senior primary class. I don’t know what the two or three teachers and deacons did. 

My children really benefited in Canada for most of their youth with their between 8-12 kids per age groups. I think the difference with mine which was the same size group was I entered it when 13 instead of in junior primary and relationships were already strongly formed and no one made an effort to make room for me or my sister and I didn’t make much effort to fit in.   A smaller ward might have been more willing to make room for the less popular kids, but not have as wide opportunities to find people they naturally bond with rather than forced to by lack of choice.

I like the idea of overlapping when larger numbers are beneficial and keeping to one smaller unit when it’s not. 

Edited February 19, 2024 by Calm

[webbles]

http://ldschurchgrowth.blogspot.com/2023/12/new-global-standards-for-creating-new.html goes into pretty good detail about the changes.  This change unifies the member count for the entire world.  Previously, US and Canada had different rules than the rest of the countries.  Now, the US and Canada have lowered their numbers a little while the rest of the world has increased their numbers a little.

It also adds a new requirement: "participating adult".  Previously, the requirements only cared about Melchizedek Priesthood holders and total membership numbers.  I don't think the requirements have actually gotten easier for the US and Canada.  For example, the number of total membership for a ward decreased from 300 to 250 but the ward must now have 100 "participating adults".  Previously, a ward could have 250 inactive members and 50 active members.  Now, they must have at least 100 "participating adults" which is even more stringent than "active members".  The ward MP holders also didn't change.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

Have the new guidelines for stake and ward sizes been discussed here?  If so perhaps I missed it.  Here are two articles that outline the new guidelines:

https://www.ldsliving.com/new-church-policy-standardizes-ward-and-stake-creation-requirements/s/11901

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/first-presidency-announces-uniform-worldwide-standards-for-ward-and-stake-boundaries

 

I must say I was a bit surprised about the reduced number of active members, priesthood holders, full tithe payers and so on. It seems it has been sometime since the church has changed requirements for ward and stake numbers. Last time the numbers were reduced and here we are again with the further reductions.  I think the units will be to small and units will struggle. But it seems there is still flexibility. For example, in my stake they recently peeled off parts of four wards and created another ward. And the recreated new wards out of the ones that were changed so all new leadership positions changed.  Two of the wards already shared one building.  And the  new ward will share a building with a ward that was previously alone. The schedule will be like this:  Ward 1 has sacrament meeting and 9 am.  Second hour is combined with ward 1 and 2.  Then ward 2 has sacrament meeting.  Primary, RS, youth activities will be combined between the two wards sharing the building and they will figure out who leads out on things each week. 

So basically a ward with double sacrament meetings and double leadership?

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

I see pluses and minuses in this.  But the area where I live has had no net growth in decades.  And in fact the ward with the most attendance weekly was at 200.  Heck when I was bishop of the Palmyra ward we had 250 not counting visitors.  So they have taken members from four wards to create a new ward and all wards are smaller.  One of the wards, my ward in Palmyra, had members taken but they are still alone in the building. I think that will hurt an already shrinking ward.  They have no one to partner up with.

What are others thoughts on this?  Have you seen boundary changes or other impacts on units where you live?

 

 

[Teancum]

13 hours ago, Rain said:

So basically a ward with double sacrament meetings and double leadership?

 

Well each ward has their own sacrament meeting but the second hour will be joint as well as other activities.  Seems like it may become very confusing.

[Rain]

53 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Well each ward has their own sacrament meeting but the second hour will be joint as well as other activities.  Seems like it may become very confusing.

I caught that. The pros are that there are more people to connect with and leaders have responsibility over fewer people. They will also have less things to plan. The cons are you need more leaders and more communication between leaders. More meetings with other leaders. 

Some of the confusion will be knowing who your leaders are (except for bishopric who you will see on the stand for your sacrament meeting) especially if you are new or children.

I'm all for trying things new when needed, but I'm curious on the reasoning of this.

[bluebell]

Our ward boundaries are bleeding people.  Strong active members move and and nonmembers move in.  Plus it's an older neighborhood so very few people have kids.  It's amazing to see the change in the dynamics and size over the last ten years.

[Thinking]

On 2/13/2024 at 2:44 PM, Vanguard said:

Interesting. It will undoubtedly require more participation from what remaining members there are in each ward.

There was a time when my wife had 3 callings. She was stressed out often.

[Teancum]

36 minutes ago, Thinking said:

There was a time when my wife had 3 callings. She was stressed out often.

That is a rather unhealthy situation don't you think?

[Thinking]

2 hours ago, Teancum said:

That is a rather unhealthy situation don't you think?

Yes it was. Two of the callings were pretty minor, but all three together made for some exhausting Sundays.

[bluebell]

33 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Yes it was. Two of the callings were pretty minor, but all three together made for some exhausting Sundays.

I hate when leaders do that.  

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I hate when leaders do that.  

A good friend of mine has been the one of ten that gets called to leadership callings, that old saying that the same 10 get these callings. The latest is Primary President..I worry that there are so few willing to take these callings that they go to the people that never turn a calling down. She's in her late fifties now and taking care of her elderly parents at their home plus tends her two grandchildren part time. Her husband is the ward clerk. This friend has been the one to serve in her ward and another ward that was split, for years. I worry that she'll eventually need to have help if she goes down hill. Her health is already suffering with surgeries for severe restless leg syndrome and also a neck surgery. I sit here in my inactive life and feel guilt that I do nothing in the church and she does everything imaginable. This girl is beyond unbelievable. I don't want her to have an early death or spiral downhill with health all because they don't have enough people that will accept callings or not enough that are worthy enough to serve in these capacities. I wish there was something else that can occur to not have these people go through this. She's always the first to help those outside of these callings as well. 

[Kenngo1969]

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

There was a time when my wife had 3 callings. She was stressed out often.

I know this probably won't mean a lot to you coming from me, but I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.  I hope she lived to tell about it!    

[MustardSeed]

I don’t have a calling because I’m gone a lot but I do try to home run my ministering. 
 

When I first started adulting I assumed my life would be like my moms and my grandmothers, always in leadership - but that was never the case for whatever reason. Always a teacher.  Best calling anyway imo. 

[Calm]

16 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Always a teacher.  Best calling anyway imo. 

The one time I was a leader I did not like it. The primary president was not happy. I think she knew the bishop was having an affair with her best friend as when I wondered why it was taking so long to find teachers and the 2nd counselor, she said he was just waiting until he would be released and was going to let the new bishop worry about it. I did not understand why at the time her frustration was hard edged. It was I think colored with disgust. 
 

I realize I shouldn’t assume all leadership was like that experience, but not interested in finding out for sure. 

Edited February 18, 2024 by Calm

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I don’t have a calling because I’m gone a lot but I do try to home run my ministering. 
 

When I first started adulting I assumed my life would be like my moms and my grandmothers, always in leadership - but that was never the case for whatever reason. Always a teacher.  Best calling anyway imo. 

 

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

The one time I was a leader I did not like it. The primary president was not happy. I think she knew the bishop was having an affair with her best friend as when I wondered why it was taking so long to find teachers and the 2nd counselor, she said he was just waiting until he would be released and was going to let the new bishop worry about it. I did not understand why at the time her frustration was hard edged. It was I think colored with disgust. 

Leadership callings suck rocks.  

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

A good friend of mine has been the one of ten that gets called to leadership callings, that old saying that the same 10 get these callings. The latest is Primary President..I worry that there are so few willing to take these callings that they go to the people that never turn a calling down. She's in her late fifties now and taking care of her elderly parents at their home plus tends her two grandchildren part time. Her husband is the ward clerk. This friend has been the one to serve in her ward and another ward that was split, for years. I worry that she'll eventually need to have help if she goes down hill. Her health is already suffering with surgeries for severe restless leg syndrome and also a neck surgery. I sit here in my inactive life and feel guilt that I do nothing in the church and she does everything imaginable. This girl is beyond unbelievable. I don't want her to have an early death or spiral downhill with health all because they don't have enough people that will accept callings or not enough that are worthy enough to serve in these capacities. I wish there was something else that can occur to not have these people go through this. She's always the first to help those outside of these callings as well. 

Having people willing to accept callings is a real concern for most wards now I think.  Your poor friend!

I have to admit that sometimes I struggle with active members who won't accept callings.  They are more than willing to take advantage of the community of saints (in the way that we are all supposed to take advantage of it) but refuse to give back.  This seems to be especially true for those with kids and youth who are actively being blessed by participating in those programs.

I know that there are some times when saying no to calling is completely justified and necessary.  But I don't think it's justified to the extent that it happens now.   I think we are a lot more self-focused than we used to be as a church.

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Having people willing to accept callings is a real concern for most wards now I think.  Your poor friend!

I have to admit that sometimes I struggle with active members who won't accept callings.  They are more than willing to take advantage of the community of saints (in the way that we are all supposed to take advantage of it) but refuse to give back.  This seems to be especially true for those with kids and youth who are actively being blessed by participating in those programs.

I know that there are some times when saying no to calling is completely justified and necessary.  But I don't think it's justified to the extent that it happens now.   I think we are a lot more self-focused than we used to be as a church.

For sure.  I think word got out that sometimes callings are more desperation than inspiration which gives latitude to refuse.  Plus life is so busy now, and we are learning how time away from family for callings is hard on family the same way a paid job is.  
 I don’t qualify for a leadership calling so I think I’m safe,  but I would have served faithfully and well back in the day. 
I do believe in being a contributor and not a taker though.  I need to adjust my present situation to reflect that. 

[mfbukowski]

On 2/14/2024 at 7:59 AM, Rain said:

Some of the confusion will be knowing who your leaders are (except for bishopric who you will see on the stand for your sacrament meeting) especially if you are new or children.

No problem like that in LA!

Every ward speaking a different language makes that a lot easier. ☺️

But the kids speak English, so integrating languages for youth activities is not a problem 

[Calm]

On 2/13/2024 at 5:57 PM, Rain said:

So basically a ward with double sacrament meetings and double leadership?

Rather than double leadership, isn’t it half teachers since the teachers are spread over two wards?

[Thinking]

On 2/17/2024 at 12:48 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

I know this probably won't mean a lot to you coming from me, but I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.  I hope she lived to tell about it!    

Thank you. I try to separate my opinion of a person's character from their belief system. During that time I was actually invited to accept a calling in the nursery. I didn't. Apparently a lot of active ward members had been turning down callings.

[Kenngo1969]

9 hours ago, Thinking said:

Thank you. ....

You're welcome.

[Stargazer]

On 2/16/2024 at 6:33 PM, Thinking said:

There was a time when my wife had 3 callings. She was stressed out often.

 

On 2/16/2024 at 7:09 PM, Teancum said:

That is a rather unhealthy situation don't you think?

It can vary with the relative commitments of the callings. In my old stake in Washington state I had three callings: YSA branch finance clerk; high priests group instructor; and stake emergency communications specialist. I loved it! I felt like I could have taken on a fourth one, as long as it wasn't too "commitment-full." This was in a very large stake.

And now I'm back to a small stake and ward, and again with three callings. But now I'm retired, so have plenty of time.