The Second Hour

[JAHS]

20 hours ago, Calm said:

Like it used to be?  Or in the evenings like YM/YW?  Seems like that would be going backwards and would eliminate many with young families.  That would be at least two weeknights devoted to church as well for families with teens, assuming RS and EQ switches each week, three nights if they didn’t and were weekly.

If the point is to have more family time, taking away the precious evening hours during the week would be foolish, imo.

Not to mention the extra driving time mid-week for wards or branches that cover a large area.

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I also think that bishoprics are also struggling to figure out how to spend equal time with the YW like they are supposed to

I haven't seen that solved.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I haven't seen that solved.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has.

I really don't know that it can be solved (with how it's presently set up) since there is only so much time to go around and per the nature of the calling, more of it is allotted to the YM than the YW. 

But as long as the boys are getting the lion's share of the bishopric's attention and time, that's a problem that should be forefront in our leaders' minds (in my opinion).  

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Not to mention the extra driving time mid-week for wards or branches that cover a large area.

It took 45 minutes to get to the Masonic Hall iirc and I don’t remember the people driving us as living closeby as I barely knew the kids (just knew them at church), so my guess is they lived even further away and picked us up on the way in.

I have a feeling we missed a lot.  Will have to ask my older siste if by chance she remembers.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Calm

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Smiley McGee said:

I suggested to my dad that the church dispense with required adult classes for second hour and just have a social gathering with food served. He dismissed it as a “mainline Christian thing.” 

Ha-ha we could also use that time to mainline (bring your naloxone!) !

[Smiley McGee]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

Well it could fit this scripture:

5. And the church did meet together oft, to fast and to pray, and to speak one with another concerning the welfare of their souls.

6 And they did meet together oft to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus.

I've seen some post worship service "coffee hours" pitched using essentially these verses or those with similar themes. 

[Smiley McGee]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

But as long as the boys are getting the lion's share of the bishopric's attention and time, that's a problem that should be forefront in our leaders' minds (in my opinion).

Do the YW (the girls, not the leaders) even care to have the bishopric around? Do they feel neglected? What can a bishop provide in terms of guidance and leadership that YW leaders can't? (honest questions) 

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

Do the YW (the girls, not the leaders) even care to have the bishopric around? Do they feel neglected?

Yes, in my personal experience, they do.  It's not because the bishopric provides something their leaders can't exactly, but more so because it is a visual reminder that men, starting from a young age, have more access to leadership and the ability to for relationships of trust with them, than women do.  Our prophet and other leaders have repeatedly stated that a bishop's primary responsibility is to care for the youth, he does this by spending time with them, getting to know them, learning their names and their interests, etc.

That doesn't happen in an equitable way for the YW and YM though, because more time is allotted to the YM than to the YW (not for any nefarious reasons, that's just the way it is because of the logistics of the way the church functions).  More and contact generally means a better relationship, and feeling more loved and cared for.

Quote

What can a bishop provide in terms of guidance and leadership that YW leaders can't? (honest questions) 

I think this is a great question that equally applies to the YM.  What can a bishop provide the YM in terms of guidance and leadership that a YM's leader can't?  I'm not exactly sure, but it seems like our church leaders believe there is something he should be providing to the YM and YW equally that can't be gained from other relationships with ward leaders.  It would be interesting to know what our General authorities believe that something is.

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

and feeling more loved and cared for

I am not sure time spent always coordinates with the above, but feelings of being known for who they are and not just as the children of this couple the bishop might know well at best as well as feelings of mattering to the bishop as an individual relationship I think are more likely to come with time invested in the relationship.  Someone has to be very insightful and capable of being very present with another to be able to do that without extended engagement and .I have only known two bishops I felt that way with in probably the two dozen who have had stewardship over me.

Why I think the above…among other relationships that taught me this, I don’t doubt my father loved and cared for me as much as my siblings and he would have done all he could to have rescued me like he did my siblings (everyone else lived with him as adults for years, he took care of their kids, ate with them, etc; it never happened with me because I never needed it), I also know he didn’t know me very well at all and it was difficult to feel I mattered to him that much when we were always the couple of hours visit on the way to somewhere else instead of a destination in itself (they would stop by our house late in the day and eat and then rest before heading off again first thing in the morning when traveling)

Edited September 27, 2023 by Calm

[Diamondhands69]

18 hours ago, ksfisher said:

I haven't seen that solved.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone has.

Speaking only about my stake.. allegedly the young men as a whole are pushing back against serving missions and it is freaking the stake pres out. They have implemented a full court press on the young men to serve missions and now it is the focus of everything.

I’m kinda mystified by this because we have several kids out in missions so I suppose the pusher backers are priests in jr/sr yr of HS? All efforts are being directed at the young men in our stake. As for the young women obviously they get a pass on the mission thing so they are being ignored. 
 

Possibly this may be the case in your stake. 

[ksfisher]

50 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Speaking only about my stake.. allegedly the young men as a whole are pushing back against serving missions and it is freaking the stake pres out. They have implemented a full court press on the young men to serve missions and now it is the focus of everything.

I’m kinda mystified by this because we have several kids out in missions so I suppose the pusher backers are priests in jr/sr yr of HS? All efforts are being directed at the young men in our stake. As for the young women obviously they get a pass on the mission thing so they are being ignored. 
 

Possibly this may be the case in your stake. 

No

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Diamondhands69 said:

Speaking only about my stake.. allegedly the young men as a whole are pushing back against serving missions and it is freaking the stake pres out. They have implemented a full court press on the young men to serve missions and now it is the focus of everything.

I’m kinda mystified by this because we have several kids out in missions so I suppose the pusher backers are priests in jr/sr yr of HS? All efforts are being directed at the young men in our stake. As for the young women obviously they get a pass on the mission thing so they are being ignored. 
 

Possibly this may be the case in your stake. 

I'm seeing an increase in pressure in our stake as well, but so far it has not gotten out of hand or over the top.  I hope it doesn't.  The girls are not getting pressure but that makes sense to me since most bishops and stake presidents have been told specifically not to pressure them.  However, even without the pressure most girls in my ward who are of age are choosing to serve.  

[The Mean Farmer]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:48 PM, bluebell said:

Yes, in my personal experience, they do.  It's not because the bishopric provides something their leaders can't exactly, but more so because it is a visual reminder that men, starting from a young age, have more access to leadership and the ability to for relationships of trust with them, than women do.  Our prophet and other leaders have repeatedly stated that a bishop's primary responsibility is to care for the youth, he does this by spending time with them, getting to know them, learning their names and their interests, etc.

That doesn't happen in an equitable way for the YW and YM though, because more time is allotted to the YM than to the YW (not for any nefarious reasons, that's just the way it is because of the logistics of the way the church functions).  More and contact generally means a better relationship, and feeling more loved and cared for.

I think this is a great question that equally applies to the YM.  What can a bishop provide the YM in terms of guidance and leadership that a YM's leader can't?  I'm not exactly sure, but it seems like our church leaders believe there is something he should be providing to the YM and YW equally that can't be gained from other relationships with ward leaders.  It would be interesting to know what our General authorities believe that something is.

This.

 

It cuts both ways as well.

The YM are totally isolated from the YW, their leaders, organization, goals, activities.   The two groups are totally isolated from each other.  The YW barely get a Bishopric member with them.  The YM NEVER get interaction with YW. 

The way things are organized makes church and other youth gatherings more like a Jewish wedding.  You don't need a rope down the middle of the room because there will be NO interaction between the sexes!!  I don't like that and it has been VERY difficult to break down that wall.

 

 

Additionally, It's hard to find a Bishop who fits every need.   Leader, minister, advisor/counselor, judge, decision maker, etc...   As well as someone young/active/healthy enough to do things with the Priest aged YM that are desired. 

 

  

[Diamondhands69]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:37 AM, bluebell said:

My husband is hoping that they bring back YM presidencies, even though he understands doctrinally why they went away.  After his experience being in a bishopric, he doesn't view the current state of things as working very well, either for the youth or for the leaders.

In our ward the ym thing is an epic failure. No one even knows what the program is and all the boys do now is play basketball. Come to think of it that’s all they did when we had BSA too. I guess the program is just cheaper now without the uniform and annual registrations. 

[Navidad]

On 9/25/2023 at 6:39 PM, Calm said:

I will be shocked if they get rid of Primary classes.  Depending on adults studying for themselves is one thing, especially since SM is pitched to adults and older teens.  They need to ensure kids get some instruction in doctrine and principles of the Church and it needs to be age appropriate and in smaller groups so it is easier for them to pay attention.  Now some parents, hopefully most will do this…but I bet there is a good percentage of families that still do nothing at home, not even group fun activities for family home evening….but they will take their kids to church to be taught.

Sorry for my ignorance . . . .  I thought I knew most of the insider abbreviations. What does SM stand for?

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

In our ward the ym thing is an epic failure. No one even knows what the program is and all the boys do now is play basketball. Come to think of it that’s all they did when we had BSA too. I guess the program is just cheaper now without the uniform and annual registrations. 

Yeah, the new goal oriented program isn't working well in my ward either.  The YM have zero interest in it and unlike the YW (who seem better at doing things because it's what they are supposed to be doing if for no other reason), they don't care that they aren't doing what they should be.

[Navidad]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:45 PM, Smiley McGee said:

I suggested to my dad that the church dispense with required adult classes for second hour and just have a social gathering with food served. He dismissed it as a “mainline Christian thing.” 

I can speak with authority on this.  . . . . Mainline Christians will serve food with Bible Studies, social gatherings, leaf raking, basketball games, board of trustees meetings, and Sunday morning services! I have seen it all! And in Texas, there is either Dr. Pepper or RC Cola at all of them!  😃

[rjohnson7]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:55 PM, ksfisher said:

My observation is that bishops aren't fully letting go of responsibilities that should now fall on the elders quorum and relief society presidencies, and members are still going to the bishop for everything. 

Not in our Ward, I'm now the Elder Quorum President and was released 4 yrs ago from the Bishopric.... I have more responsibility then ever before, I would rather be back in the Bishopric.  Chuckle. 

Richard 

[MustardSeed]

Our youth program blows total chunks because the emphasis is so heavy on youth lead activities. The youth don’t have a clue or experience to know what types of activities can be planned. So the men who are running young men are in essence just babysitting, while the young men do the same thing every single dang week.  girls are regurgitating the same activities over and over as well although they look a little different than the boys playing basketball. The girls are doing arts and crafts and beauty activities it’s simply nauseating. I recently asked to be released because I just couldn’t take it anymore. I was showing up as a babysitter. I’ve got better things to do with my life.

I can’t stand the present program. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by MustardSeed

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

I can speak with authority on this.  . . . . Mainline Christians will serve food with Bible Studies, social gatherings, leaf raking, basketball games, board of trustees meetings, and Sunday morning services! I have seen it all! And in Texas, there is either Dr. Pepper or RC Cola at all of them!  😃

Don’t forget coffee… everyone else in the world has coffee 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Our youth program blows total chunks because the emphasis is so heavy on youth lead activities. The youth don’t have a clue or experience to know what types of activities can be planned. So the men who are running young men are in essence just babysitting, while the young men do the same thing every single dang week.  girls are regurgitating the same activities over and over as well although they look a little different than the boys playing basketball. The girls are doing arts and crafts and beauty activities it’s simply nauseating. I recently asked to be released because I just couldn’t take it anymore. I was showing up as a babysitter. I’ve got better things to do with my life.

I can’t stand the present program. 

I get the idea of youth led activities but that’s not working in my ward either. 

[Tacenda]

I think the old ways were better. Put back young men presidencies being in charge. When my husband served in these, they did youth activities that combined the YM and YW. And how in the world is a bishop supposed to be over the YM? Nah, we need to go back and do what actually worked, even three hour church. I know I've been absent since the two hour deal, but I have friends that are still in and I hear bits and pieces of conversation on what's happening and they reflect what so many have said on this board. 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, Navidad said:

Sorry for my ignorance . . . .  I thought I knew most of the insider abbreviations. What does SM stand for?

Sacrament meeting.  

[Doctrine 612]

going to take some heat for this, 😂

I would love the church to go back to a 3rd hour.

2 hours was great for the Covid situation.

 

[Chum]

7 minutes ago, Doctrine 612 said:

I would love the church to go back to a 3rd hour.

 

I guess it depends on the format of the 3rd hour.  If's it's sitting in rows, grade-school-like instruction, it's just 2nd hour again.