The Second Hour

[Smiley McGee]

At the risk of being that guy, I can't help but wonder whether this coming GC will mean significant org changes. I've been thinking about whether the second hour will get an overhaul, or at least tweaked in a significant way. In it's current state, it seems to be attempting to preserve the content from the previous three hour block -- still have sunday school and Priesthood/RS, YM/YW, primary still has singing time and classes. It's a nice transition from the three-hour block, but I wonder if simplification is coming. Specifically:

• No more primary classes just singing time. One hour is kind of tough to cram both singing time and classes. Singing time could easily take the hour. Would ease the demand for primary teachers (would also decrease the number of people to vet should background checks become standard). 
• Just Sunday School. Can't speak for Relief Society, but EQ in my last several wards is dull. Most of the "talent" is busy with Stake or Ward callings that pull them away from EQ. It doesn't seem to work well. Relief Society and EQ could become a mid-week or once a month event. Perhaps EQ/RS could be oriented/directed at the Stake level with more frequent/recurring Stake level events. YM/YW would still have weekly activities, perhaps for YM this could involve more quorom business and training. 

Thoughts? Predictions? Rumors?

[Calm]

I will be shocked if they get rid of Primary classes.  Depending on adults studying for themselves is one thing, especially since SM is pitched to adults and older teens.  They need to ensure kids get some instruction in doctrine and principles of the Church and it needs to be age appropriate and in smaller groups so it is easier for them to pay attention.  Now some parents, hopefully most will do this…but I bet there is a good percentage of families that still do nothing at home, not even group fun activities for family home evening….but they will take their kids to church to be taught.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Smiley McGee said:

Relief Society and EQ could become a mid-week

Like it used to be?  Or in the evenings like YM/YW?  Seems like that would be going backwards and would eliminate many with young families.  That would be at least two weeknights devoted to church as well for families with teens, assuming RS and EQ switches each week, three nights if they didn’t and were weekly.

If the point is to have more family time, taking away the precious evening hours during the week would be foolish, imo.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Calm

[bluebell]

I really REALLY struggle with Sunday school in our ward. RS Sundays are the bright spots in the month.  I don’t think it or EQ is going anywhere on Sundays.

Likewise, I don’t think they’ll change up primary either.  For one thing, most primaries are split between jr and sr primaries, with each taking turns in the primary room because there is not space for all to be together.  Also, teaching/entertaining 11 year olds and three year olds at the same time is tough.  Having them separate when possible makes sense, both in terms of cognitive development as well as space requirements.

 

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Smiley McGee said:

At the risk of being that guy, I can't help but wonder whether this coming GC will mean significant org changes. I've been thinking about whether the second hour will get an overhaul, or at least tweaked in a significant way. In it's current state, it seems to be attempting to preserve the content from the previous three hour block -- still have sunday school and Priesthood/RS, YM/YW, primary still has singing time and classes. It's a nice transition from the three-hour block, but I wonder if simplification is coming. Specifically:

• No more primary classes just singing time. One hour is kind of tough to cram both singing time and classes. Singing time could easily take the hour. Would ease the demand for primary teachers (would also decrease the number of people to vet should background checks become standard). 
• Just Sunday School. Can't speak for Relief Society, but EQ in my last several wards is dull. Most of the "talent" is busy with Stake or Ward callings that pull them away from EQ. It doesn't seem to work well. Relief Society and EQ could become a mid-week or once a month event. Perhaps EQ/RS could be oriented/directed at the Stake level with more frequent/recurring Stake level events. YM/YW would still have weekly activities, perhaps for YM this could involve more quorom business and training. 

Thoughts? Predictions? Rumors?

No way.  Sunday school would go before  ym/yw and priesthood meeting.  These are the two most valued groups in the church.  
 

singing time would go before classes I’m quite sure. 
 

I hope there are major changes with regards to *anything* just to offer hope that the changes I need are hopeful! 

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Like it used to be?  Or in the evenings like YM/YW?  Seems like that would be going backwards and would eliminate many with young families.  That would be at least two weeknights devoted to church as well for families with teens, assuming RS and EQ switches each week, three nights if they didn’t and were weekly.

If the point is to have more family time, taking away the precious evening hours during the week would be foolish, imo.

I recall going to primary in the middle of the week after school. Males were not called into primary teaching jobs-ever. This was 100% women doing these callings. If we were to go back to that, who is gonna teach the primary classes? Nearly every man and woman works now. 

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, Diamondhands69 said:

I recall going to primary in the middle of the week after school. Males were not called into primary teaching jobs-ever. This was 100% women doing these callings. If we were to go back to that, who is gonna teach the primary classes? Nearly every man and woman works now. 

Thursday afternoons at the Masonic Hall.  Primary has to stay on Sunday these days.  Even if there are enough at home parents to teach it, who is going to bring the kids to Primary when their parents work?  It was a big hassle getting there even for us as my mom had to arrange for different people to drive us much of the time (she had two small kids for five years and then health issues).  My experience outside of Utah was Primary was not easy to arrange…though it was from the PoV of a preteen.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Calm

[Smiley McGee]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

No way.  Sunday school would go before  ym/yw and priesthood meeting.  These are the two most valued groups in the church.  
 

singing time would go before classes I’m quite sure. 
 

I hope there are major changes with regards to *anything* just to offer hope that the changes I need are hopeful! 

Ya you’re probably right; I guess I just don’t see a reason to split the youth by gender during the second hour. I think by that age they prefer to be together anyway. 

[Smiley McGee]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I will be shocked if they get rid of Primary classes.  Depending on adults studying for themselves is one thing, especially since SM is pitched to adults and older teens.  They need to ensure kids get some instruction in doctrine and principles of the Church and it needs to be age appropriate and in smaller groups so it is easier for them to pay attention.  Now some parents, hopefully most will do this…but I bet there is a good percentage of families that still do nothing at home, not even group fun activities for family home evening….but they will take their kids to church to be taught.

Beyond splitting junior and senior primary, I think the doctrine and principles can be effectively taught during singing time. I don’t see the need for a class for each different age. 

[Smiley McGee]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Like it used to be?  Or in the evenings like YM/YW?  Seems like that would be going backwards and would eliminate many with young families.  That would be at least two weeknights devoted to church as well for families with teens, assuming RS and EQ switches each week, three nights if they didn’t and were weekly.

If the point is to have more family time, taking away the precious evening hours during the week would be foolish, imo.

ya weekly wouldn’t work. 

[Tacenda]

Maybe go back to the 3 hour block?

[JustAnAustralian]

10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe go back to the 3 hour block?

I'd support that. But I'm in an administrative calling so I might be an exception.

[bsjkki]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Maybe go back to the 3 hour block?

That would be interesting. 

[Diamondhands69]

I seriously doubt three hour block returns.
 

Interestingly on Reddit five years ago there was a post on exmo stating church would go to two hours and a few reasons why. I compared the post with the church status and hot topics today. Kinda prophetic really.
 

Here’s the post: 
 

“The real reason they'll reduce church to 2 hours

Scuttlebutt amongst TBM DW and friends last night was that GenCon announcement will be a reduction of church to two hours--as many have speculated here. One friend said that Oaks (her favorite for a long time) told to a group of "saints" in California in the last month, that the "brethren" realize three hours of church is tough for families with kids and that "help is on the way." Her inference is that church will become two hours.

No surprise. But this morning I had the shower thought that the real reason is to save money. They can cram four or five wards in a single building now. They can get away with building fewer meeting houses and even sell off some potentially. They're hemorrhaging members and losing tithing revenue too fast to sustain what they have. And god forbid they dip into the sacred stock investments. “

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Smiley McGee said:

Beyond splitting junior and senior primary, I think the doctrine and principles can be effectively taught during singing time. I don’t see the need for a class for each different age. 

Have you taught young kids in a group?  
 

I did junior primary mostly for 20 years or so.  Attentions wander with the little ones, it worked so much better when we were in a classroom by ourselves and I was the most interesting thing in the room.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Calm

[ksfisher]

If there are any changes I would imagine they'd be something that would further strengthen the bishops role with the youth.

[bluebell]

My husband is hoping that they bring back YM presidencies, even though he understands doctrinally why they went away.  After his experience being in a bishopric, he doesn't view the current state of things as working very well, either for the youth or for the leaders.

[ksfisher]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My husband is hoping that they bring back YM presidencies, even though he understands doctrinally why they went away.  After his experience being in a bishopric, he doesn't view the current state of things as working very well, either for the youth or for the leaders.

My observation is that bishops aren't fully letting go of responsibilities that should now fall on the elders quorum and relief society presidencies, and members are still going to the bishop for everything. 

[Duncan]

Something I wish they bring back is ward correlation mtg without the auxiliaries present. Years ago it was the WML, the missionaries and maybe ward missionaries present, if they had any or attended. Then the WML would attend ward council mtgs and any of those meetings as they existed. That was fine. Now, though correlation is the WML, the missionaries, plus youth, plus the EQ and RS and ward missionaries. So, it's the, say, EQ rep. is supposed to be a liaison between the missionaries and the EQ and the EQ Rep. would report to the EQP who report to the ward council. However, the WML plus the missionaries already attend the Ward council so what is the point of having the EQ, RS reps plus all these other people there to report to someone who is at the meeting with the WML and missionaries? It's like two of the same meetings. It's so ridiculous and a waste of time. It's creating more meetings and bureaucracy and fixing a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Why have someone attend a meeting only to tell someone else about that meeting who will only go to a meeting with the participants of the first meeting and share what they already know? 

[ksfisher]

39 minutes ago, Duncan said:

the WML plus the missionaries already attend the Ward council

The ward mission leader is no longer a part of the ward council.  He can be invited to attend when needed, but otherwise not.

We never had proselyting missionaries attend our ward council.  In many areas missionaries cover more than one ward so that would not be possible.

[Rain]

13 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The ward mission leader is no longer a part of the ward council.  He can be invited to attend when needed, but otherwise not.

We never had proselyting missionaries attend our ward council.  In many areas missionaries cover more than one ward so that would not be possible.

In our ward both were attending ward council till recently - not sure if that changed or not, I just know it wasn't long ago they were still both attending. I just know that the missionaries were taking up about 90% of the time and they were always asked to go first. 

[CV75]

18 hours ago, Smiley McGee said:

At the risk of being that guy, I can't help but wonder whether this coming GC will mean significant org changes. I've been thinking about whether the second hour will get an overhaul, or at least tweaked in a significant way. In it's current state, it seems to be attempting to preserve the content from the previous three hour block -- still have sunday school and Priesthood/RS, YM/YW, primary still has singing time and classes. It's a nice transition from the three-hour block, but I wonder if simplification is coming. Specifically:

• No more primary classes just singing time. One hour is kind of tough to cram both singing time and classes. Singing time could easily take the hour. Would ease the demand for primary teachers (would also decrease the number of people to vet should background checks become standard). 
• Just Sunday School. Can't speak for Relief Society, but EQ in my last several wards is dull. Most of the "talent" is busy with Stake or Ward callings that pull them away from EQ. It doesn't seem to work well. Relief Society and EQ could become a mid-week or once a month event. Perhaps EQ/RS could be oriented/directed at the Stake level with more frequent/recurring Stake level events. YM/YW would still have weekly activities, perhaps for YM this could involve more quorom business and training. 

Thoughts? Predictions? Rumors?

I rthink the time could be used to compare moles, surgical scars, and tithing amounts.

[Smiley McGee]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I rthink the time could be used to compare moles, surgical scars, and tithing amounts.

I suggested to my dad that the church dispense with required adult classes for second hour and just have a social gathering with food served. He dismissed it as a “mainline Christian thing.” 

[Rain]

11 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

I suggested to my dad that the church dispense with required adult classes for second hour and just have a social gathering with food served. He dismissed it as a “mainline Christian thing.” 

Well it could fit this scripture:

5. And the church did meet together oft, to fast and to pray, and to speak one with another concerning the welfare of their souls.

6 And they did meet together oft to partake of bread and wine, in remembrance of the Lord Jesus.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, ksfisher said:

My observation is that bishops aren't fully letting go of responsibilities that should now fall on the elders quorum and relief society presidencies, and members are still going to the bishop for everything. 

I think that's true.  It's hard to figure out how a bishop is the leader of a ward and the shepherd of the flock but also not really supposed to be doing much with most of the flock unless repentance is needed.  We've defined the role of bishop for over a century to be something that suddenly he's not supposed to be anymore.  That's a hard change for everyone.

I also think that bishoprics are also struggling to figure out how to spend equal time with the YW like they are supposed to, since they are basically the YMs presidency and so required to spend more time with the boys in general.