Popular Post smac97 Posted June 1, 2023 Popular Post Posted June 1, 2023 Deseret News: Latter-day Saints update and expand policy on political neutrality and participation Quote By updating its policy statement on politics on Thursday, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints underscored both its religious mission and how it interacts with governments and political parties. The church has shared statements of political neutrality for decades, saying that it is neutral in matters of party politics around the world while reserving the right to share its opinion on moral issues or related legislation. The updated and expanded statement released by the church on Thursday includes a new opening paragraph. The work of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, strengthening individuals and families, and caring for those in need. The church does not seek to elect government officials, support or oppose political parties, or, generally, take sides in global conflicts. The church is neutral in matters of politics within or between the world’s many nations, lands and peoples. However, as an institution, it reserves the right to address issues it believes have significant moral consequences or that directly affect the mission, teachings or operations of the church. The updated statement also has a new conclusion. To navigate the application of these principles of political neutrality and participation in an ever-changing and complex world, the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will continue to seek prophetic wisdom and revelation on these matters. Interesting. Quote The statement is published on one of the church’s official websites as a topic page titled “Political Neutrality.” The topic page continues to provide detailed lists of what the church does and does not do when it comes to politics. The Church does not: • Endorse, promote or oppose political parties and their platforms or candidates for political office. • Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for political purposes. (For more information regarding the appropriate use of church buildings and property, see the General Handbook, 35.5.2 and 35.5.8). • Advise its members on how to vote. • Direct government officials or party leaders in the duties of their office. • Typically issue statements regarding disputes in or between nations, lands or peoples; rather, it teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ, with the knowledge that living these principles limits contention and hostilities. None of this is new to me, but I'm glad the Church is publishing this anyway, as I think we as members need to be reminded of the parameters under which the Church has chosen to interact with civil authorities. Of particular note, I hope that any Latter-day Saints who are predisposed to "Christian Nationalist" sentiments will pay attention to these parameters. Quote The Church does: • Believe and teach that members should be subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law (Article of Faith 1:12). • Recognize a universal right to the free exercise of conscience and believes all individuals and institutions should be able to express publicly their views on issues facing society (Doctrine and Covenants 134). • Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues, voting in elections, participating in governance processes and (as they desire) seeking for elected, appointed or voluntary office. • Encourage its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting that fellow members of the church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters. The church also encourages its members to keep all communications (including on social media) respectful and aligned with Christlike behavior. • Request that candidates for office not imply that their candidacies or platforms are endorsed by the church. • Provide humanitarian assistance around the world, including areas of international conflict. While political strife may be a factor in causing the need for assistance, the church will generally not comment on the conflict itself. Rather, the church seeks to live the Savior’s two great commandments—to love God and our neighbor—by alleviating suffering wherever it is found, regardless of the race, nationality, tribe, political persuasion or religious affiliation of those involved. These too are important for us to remember and reflect on. Latter-day Saints leaning toward a "Christian Nationalist" or "Sovereign Citizen"-style approach to civil government will have a hard time doing so while at the same time sustaining the Brethren in the foregoing parameters (particularly the first one). Quote The church also, according to its General Handbook, “provides humanitarian aid throughout the world. It does this both directly and through collaboration with other relief organizations. Aid is given without regard to race, religion or nationality.” The rest of the church’s political neutrality page covers government relations and the political participation of church leaders: Relationships with Government Government officials and political representatives who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions. They are not expected or asked to agree with one another or even with a publicly stated church position. While the church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other officials or representatives, it recognizes that these individuals must make their own choices according to their best judgment and considering the constituencies they were elected to represent. I have seen too many Latter-day Saints - including people with whom I am in broad agreement on most sociopolitical issues - forget the foregoing principles. Quote Political Participation of Presiding Church Officers In June 2011, the First Presidency of the church issued a restatement and further clarification of the church’s position on political neutrality. The policy applies to all General authorities, general officers, mission presidents and temple presidents and limits their personal participation in all political party activities. The policy is not directed at church employees. The policy, as outlined in the letter, is provided below. General authorities and general officers of the church and their spouses and other ecclesiastical leaders serving full-time should not personally participate in political campaigns, including promoting candidates, fundraising, speaking in behalf of or otherwise endorsing candidates, and making financial contributions. Since they are not full-time officers of the church, Area Seventies, stake presidents and bishops are free to contribute, serve on campaign committees, and otherwise support candidates of their choice with the understanding they: • Are acting solely as individual citizens in the democratic process and that they do not imply, or allow others to infer, that their actions or support in any way represent the church. • Will not use church stationery, church-generated address lists or email systems or church buildings for political promotional purposes. • Will not engage in fundraising or other types of campaigning focused on fellow church members under their ecclesiastical supervision. I think this will become more important as the Church grows in other nations outside North America. Thoughts? Thanks, -Smac 8
CV75 Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 28 minutes ago, smac97 said: Deseret News: Latter-day Saints update and expand policy on political neutrality and participation Interesting. None of this is new to me, but I'm glad the Church is publishing this anyway, as I think we as members need to be reminded of the parameters under which the Church has chosen to interact with civil authorities. Of particular note, I hope that any Latter-day Saints who are predisposed to "Christian Nationalist" sentiments will pay attention to these parameters. These too are important for us to remember and reflect on. Latter-day Saints leaning toward a "Christian Nationalist" or "Sovereign Citizen"-style approach to civil government will have a hard time doing so while at the same time sustaining the Brethren in the foregoing parameters (particularly the first one). I have seen too many Latter-day Saints - including people with whom I am in broad agreement on most sociopolitical issues - forget the foregoing principles. I think this will become more important as the Church grows in other nations outside North America. Thoughts? Thanks, -Smac I think the phrase, "significant moral consequences" is significant because in my opinion welfare and humanitarian relief are not moral issues since but matters of discipleship.
smac97 Posted June 1, 2023 Author Posted June 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, CV75 said: I think the phrase, "significant moral consequences" is significant because in my opinion welfare and humanitarian relief are not moral issues since but matters of discipleship. From this statement: Quote The work of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, strengthening individuals and families, and caring for those in need. The church does not seek to elect government officials, support or oppose political parties, or, generally, take sides in global conflicts. The church is neutral in matters of politics within or between the world’s many nations, lands and peoples. However, as an institution, it reserves the right to address issues it believes have significant moral consequences or that directly affect the mission, teachings or operations of the church. I think this is more a reference to "issues" with "significant moral consequences" that also have some legal/political dimensions/aspects (such as, for example, laws touching on matters of marriage, family, sexual behavior, etc.). I think some people - including some members of the Church - have a notion that the Church cannot or ought not commentate on any sociopolitical issues, which is why the Church is here stating that it "reserves the right to address" such issues as it deems fit. Thanks, -Smac
Pyreaux Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 I think people and groups have tried to strong arm the church into voicing an opinion about the Ukraine War. 1
Hamilton Porter Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 We should stop framing it as "significant moral consequences." We don't take positions on torture or genocide. Change it to "significant impact on the Church's mission."
CV75 Posted June 1, 2023 Posted June 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, smac97 said: From this statement: I think this is more a reference to "issues" with "significant moral consequences" that also have some legal/political dimensions/aspects (such as, for example, laws touching on matters of marriage, family, sexual behavior, etc.). I think some people - including some members of the Church - have a notion that the Church cannot or ought not commentate on any sociopolitical issues, which is why the Church is here stating that it "reserves the right to address" such issues as it deems fit. Thanks, -Smac Yes, that is my take on it too. 1
Durangout Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 I wonder what would have happened if Captain Moroni or Alma or Nephi or Helaman or Joseph Smith or so many others had taken a stance of political neutrality? 2
ksfisher Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 21 minutes ago, Durangout said: I wonder what would have happened if Captain Moroni or Alma or Nephi or Helaman or Joseph Smith or so many others had taken a stance of political neutrality? The Book of Mormon people you mention were what we today would call political leaders, so I don't think it's an apt comparison to the church today. With Joseph Smith I don't think the comparison to the church today is applicable either. The legal and political context that Joseph Smith operated in is different than that the church does today. Joseph Smith didn't have to deal with world leaders on 6 different continents. He didn't deal with communist dictators, fascists, religious despots, 3rd world warlords, and every possible type of government in between. The church needs to navigate all types of political winds to fulfill it's mission of preaching the gospel to the world. Neutrality is the course that the Lord has inspired his leaders to follow today in order to accomplish that mission. 2
Popular Post smac97 Posted June 2, 2023 Author Popular Post Posted June 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Durangout said: I wonder what would have happened if Captain Moroni or Alma or Nephi or Helaman or Joseph Smith or so many others had taken a stance of political neutrality? I suspect they, as Pres. Nelson has, would attune to the times and adjust to the circumstances. Some time ago my father suggested that Joseph Smith could not have led the Saints west or settled and governed the Church as Brigham Young did, but that Brigham Young could not have received the revelations Joseph did. I think prophets are appointed in their time to suit the needs of the Lord and His church. Thanks, -Smac 6
jkwilliams Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 Is this because they got caught fixing the vote in Arizona? 😉 https://www.azmirror.com/2023/03/30/liz-harris-claims-she-didnt-do-anything-wrong-by-inviting-person-to-air-wild-conspiracy-theory/ 1
ttribe Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 On 6/1/2023 at 11:06 AM, smac97 said: Of particular note, I hope that any Latter-day Saints who are predisposed to "Christian Nationalist" sentiments will pay attention to these parameters. These too are important for us to remember and reflect on. Latter-day Saints leaning toward a "Christian Nationalist" or "Sovereign Citizen"-style approach to civil government will have a hard time doing so while at the same time sustaining the Brethren in the foregoing parameters (particularly the first one). Spend some time on the LDS Freedom Forum and you'll see most of those kinds of people don't care even a little about "sustaining the Brethren;" they take things like this as a sign that the Brethren have fallen.
jkwilliams Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, ttribe said: Spend some time on the LDS Freedom Forum and you'll see most of those kinds of people don't care even a little about "sustaining the Brethren;" they take things like this as a sign that the Brethren have fallen. Pretty much every ultra-right-wing Mormon I know has decided they have a direct line to God and have thus no need to “sustain the brethren.” Some say explicitly that the brethren are in apostasy, but the rest simply find them irrelevant. 1
Analytics Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 4 hours ago, Durangout said: I wonder what would have happened if Captain Moroni or Alma or Nephi or Helaman or Joseph Smith or so many others had taken a stance of political neutrality? If Joseph Smith would have been politically neutral, in all likelihood he wouldn’t have been assassinated.
jkwilliams Posted June 2, 2023 Posted June 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Analytics said: If Joseph Smith would have been politically neutral, in all likelihood he wouldn’t have been assassinated. That’s quite possible.
Durangout Posted June 3, 2023 Posted June 3, 2023 1 hour ago, Analytics said: If Joseph Smith would have been politically neutral, in all likelihood he wouldn’t have been assassinated. Agreed. Then again had Jesus Christ been politically neutral he wouldn’t have been crucified either—I’m not sure that not having to pay a price for your actions is that great of a measure as to whether the right path is being taken. 2 hours ago, smac97 said: I suspect they, as Pres. Nelson has, would attune to the times and adjust to the circumstances. Some time ago my father suggested that Joseph Smith could not have led the Saints west or settled and governed the Church as Brigham Young did, but that Brigham Young could not have received the revelations Joseph did. I think prophets are appointed in their time to suit the needs of the Lord and His church. Thanks, -Smac That’s a fair point. I would suspect that JS couldn’t have gotten the saints across the plains and organized a territory as well as BY. BY was the right man for the time.
MiserereNobis Posted June 3, 2023 Posted June 3, 2023 From my quick googling, Brigham Young was the first governor of Utah. A combination of religious leader and political leader! Was there ever any consideration of making Utah a theocracy, comparable to the Papal States and eventually Vatican City? I think there's a lot to be said for a centralized hierarchal religion having its own political space, free from the impositions of other governments.
mbh26 Posted June 3, 2023 Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, smac97 said: I suspect they, as Pres. Nelson has, would attune to the times and adjust to the circumstances. Some time ago my father suggested that Joseph Smith could not have led the Saints west or settled and governed the Church as Brigham Young did, but that Brigham Young could not have received the revelations Joseph did. I think prophets are appointed in their time to suit the needs of the Lord and His church. Thanks, -Smac I'm reading Rough Stone Rolling. I wonder if there was something to Joseph and his familys history with the supernatural. We don't seem to have had an actual seer and miracle worker in the church since Joseph Smith. I must wonder as well what's wrong with just telling the truth regardless of political consequences or how people might react to it? Isn't that what being honest and without guile means? Edited June 3, 2023 by mbh26 1
smac97 Posted June 7, 2023 Author Posted June 7, 2023 More good stuff coming from the Brethren: Quote The First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has addressed political participation, voting and the political neutrality of the Church in a June 1 letter that is being read to Latter-day Saints in the United States in their ward and branch sacrament meetings. On the same day the letter was sent to general authorities as well as Area Seventies; stake, mission, district and temple presidencies; and bishopric and branch presidencies in the United States, the Church’s “Political Neutrality” topic page on ChurchofJesusChrist.org was updated and expanded. “Participation” was added to the “Political Neutrality” page’s title, which is highlighted at the start of subject line of the June 1 First Presidency letter. “Participation in the political process affections their [U.S. citizens’] communities and nations today and in the future,” says the letter, signed by President Russell M. Nelson and his counselors, President Dallin H. Oaks and President Henry B. Eyring. As in previous First Presidency letters, the latest directive reemphasizes the Church’s political neutrality and its encouragement for members to vote and participate in civic affairs. It also underscores the importance to be informed about issues and candidates and that some principles compatible with the gospel can be found in various political parties and platforms. The letter also encourages members to study candidates carefully and to vote for those demonstrating integrity, compassion and service to others — regardless of party affiliation. “Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on ‘tradition’ without careful study of the candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards,” the letter states, citing Doctrine and Covenants 98:10 and adding that information on candidates is available through the internet, debates and other sources. In reaffirming the Church’s institutional neutrality on political parties and issues, the First Presidency also reminded that the Church may post information about particular issues that affect its mission, teachings or operations or that Church leaders believe are essential to preserving democracy or the functioning of the U.S. Constitution. “Political choices and affiliations should not be the subject of any teaching or advocating in Church settings. Leaders ensure that Church meetings focus on our Heavenly Father, our Savior, and the gospel,” the letter concludes, directing members to the “Political Neutrality and Participation” topic page on newsroom.ChurchofJesusChrist.org and Section 38.8.30 on “Political and Civic Activity” in the Church’s General Handbook. I am glad to see this. I am concerned too many of us are subordinating principles borne of earnest discipleship to this or that prevailing political orthodoxy, party platform, social trend, etc. Quote In its entirety, the June 1, 2023, letter reads: To: General Authorities and the following leaders in the United States: Area Seventies; Stake, Mission, District, and Temple Presidencies; Bishoprics and Branch Presidencies (To be read in sacrament meeting) Political Participation, Voting, and the Political Neutrality of the Church Dear Brothers and Sisters: Citizens of the United States have the privilege and duty of electing office holders and influencing public policy. Participation in the political process affects their communities and nation today and in the future. We urge Latter-day Saints to be active citizens by registering, exercising their right to vote, and engaging in civic affairs, always demonstrating Christlike love and civility in political discourse. I appreciate the frequent reminders regarding civility in communications with each other. Quote We urge you to spend the time needed to become informed about the issues and candidates you will be considering. Some principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties, and members should seek candidates who best embody those principles. Members should also study candidates carefully and vote for those who have demonstrated integrity, compassion, and service to others, regardless of party affiliation. This is all stuff we have heard before, many times over. This next part, however, seems to be new: Quote Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on “tradition” without careful study of candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10). Information on candidates is available through the internet, debates, and other sources. D&C 98:10 states: "Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil." Quote While the Church affirms its institutional neutrality regarding political parties and issues, it may occasionally post information about particular issues that directly affect the mission, teachings, or operations of the Church or that Church leaders believe are essential to preserving democracy or the essential functioning of the United States Constitution. "{T}he essential functioning of the United States Constitution." Yep. Quote Political choices and affiliations should not be the subject of any teaching or advocating in Church settings. Leaders ensure that Church meetings focus on our Heavenly Father, our Savior, and the gospel. For more information, see newsroom.ChurchofJesusChrist.org and General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 38.8.30. Sincerely yours, The First Presidency (signatures of Presidents Nelson, Oaks and Eyring) Good stuff. Thanks, -Smac 2
LoudmouthMormon Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 9 hours ago, smac97 said: Merely voting a straight ticket or voting based on “tradition” without careful study of candidates and their positions on important issues is a threat to democracy and inconsistent with revealed standards (see Doctrine and Covenants 98:10). Information on candidates is available through the internet, debates, and other sources. That part stuck out at me when the letter was read on Sunday. "Thou shalt not vote straight ticket without careful study". Pretty dang strongly worded: "If you vote straight ticket without putting any brain power behind the decision, you're being a THREAT TO DEMOCRACY and acting contrary to revelation!" I will probably be cheering for decades to come, that we're being directed to get good information from "internet, debates, and other sources". I wonder if any of the brethren still consider "the news" to be one of those sources. I certainly haven't since the late '90's. Our leaders basically urging us to spend an hour a day on TikTok. Once I got the algorithm working in my favor, every single bit of breaking news and live eyewitness coverage shows up there first for me. 1
Calm Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Once I got the algorithm working in my favo And how did you do that? So far, I have been too annoyed to stick with it. For some reason (because I like science and astronomy I am guessing), I got flooded with gossip about Elon Musk, who I have little interest in generally. Edited June 7, 2023 by Calm 1
LoudmouthMormon Posted June 7, 2023 Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) To bend the Tiktok algorithm to your will, you do this: - hit "not interested" for every video you don't want to see. - for stuff you want to see more, like and comment. - when you find someone making what you want to see, follow them. - when you see a hashtag topic you want to see (safe wholesome ones would look like #dogsoftiktok, #funnycat, #funnyanimals), click on the hashtag and watch a few all the way through. - when you see stuff you don't really care about, just keep quickly scrolling. Stuff you watch all the way through gets a little boost. Stuff you scroll by quickly gets a little un-boost. - If you see stuff to which you want to object, wrong opinions you wish to correct, just remember: The more you interact in the comments, the more you'll be seeing that stuff. ProTip - if you ever say something like "TikTok stinks - it's full of nothing but dancing swimsuit girls!" Every American kid under 25 will know what you spend all your time watching. I reject every single Christian-themed vid I see except for two content creators. , so that I don't end up watching 30 minutes of people arguing over religion. Edited June 7, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon 2
Ragerunner Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 Just curious. How many have had this letter read in their ward as instructed? I know they have not read it in our ward, I have asked other friends and they have not had it read in any of their wards. I then checked with family in different parts of the Midwest and nothing has been read in their wards either. Usually when the First Presidency directs a letter to be read from the pulpit it’s done quite religiously (no pun intended).
Duncan Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, Ragerunner said: Just curious. How many have had this letter read in their ward as instructed? I know they have not read it in our ward, I have asked other friends and they have not had it read in any of their wards. I then checked with family in different parts of the Midwest and nothing has been read in their wards either. Usually when the First Presidency directs a letter to be read from the pulpit it’s done quite religiously (no pun intended). my sense is if they did it's long forgotten
Dario_M Posted July 6, 2023 Posted July 6, 2023 On 6/1/2023 at 7:06 PM, smac97 said: I have seen too many Latter-day Saints - including people with whom I am in broad agreement on most sociopolitical issues - forget the foregoing principles. Yes they may have made those mistakes. But isn't that not just a bit...their own responsebility's and their own business? They are adults. I'm sure they are mature enough to make those choises. To do what they think is best for them. their own choises right? And there should be room for us churchmembers to make mistakes. Because we are all imperfect. Btw just a question: Do you correct these latter day saints on these kind of mistakes in person? I'm just curious. You don't have to answer my question offcourse. God bless. ✝️
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