More Cultural and Moral Decay

[Durangout]

LOL

Even a drag queen calls out parents that bring kids to drag shows.

 

[jkwilliams]

12 minutes ago, Durangout said:

LOL

Even a drag queen calls out parents that bring kids to drag shows.

 

I can't access that presently. Can you summarize what she says is inappropriate about a drag show? Is she talking about something specific, or is it just the fact of being in drag that is wrong?

[Bernard Gui]

21 hours ago, Duncan said:

how did you become such an expert, in your own mind, on these things? why are you so interested in the history and psychology of drag queens? Are you one yourself and are researching for the role? Big show coming up? Ru Paul in town?

 

Gui’s Law.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I can't access that presently. Can you summarize what she says is inappropriate about a drag show? Is she talking about something specific, or is it just the fact of being in drag that is wrong?

I couldn’t get past the first thirty seconds where the host goes on a rant shaming people about dressing certain ways in their own home. Again how big a problem is taking children to drag shows? Like as a percentage, how many children are exposed to such things on a regular  basis. How damaging is this compared to things like purity culture? Analogies taught like used chewing gum, teaching four year old that their shoulders are attractive to men etc. 

[Bernard Gui]

18 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Can you explain to me how this is bad? Have you seen BYU’s cheer squad? This was on the news! 

 

It’s bad because they never came to our BYU orchestra concerts to support us  musicians who worked just as hard to represent the school. 😏 

The men aren’t wearing Speedos. Where’s the equity?

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The back-slapping frat-boy pile-on by the forum's band of progressive apologists has once again not disappointed!

Most of those defending drag are male. It would be helpful to hear more from our sisters.

[Bernard Gui]

56 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Analogies taught like used chewing gum

Elvis has left that building.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[SeekingUnderstanding]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Elvis has left the building.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/05/elizabeth-smart-abstinence-only-sex-education-hurts-victims-of-rape-and-human-trafficking.html

[Bernard Gui]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Effeminate British soldiers have to leave drag show to shoot Nazis.

Remember that in the context of Greco-Roman culture being too interested in women was considered to be effeminate. Pederasty was comparatively masculine so logically child groomers would be masculine.

 

Note: This is actually sort of false as it was a source of public shame to be too interested in boys too. Not necessarily effeminate but it was seen as weakness. Someone ‘courting’ or trying to win over a (free) boy who refused would be seen as weak and shameful.

Thanks for expanding my horizons. I had never thought of drag shows being the equivalent to soldiers dressing as women as they killed, taunted, mocked, insulted, and belittled their enemies, or to relieve the intense emotional effects of war.  👍

When my son Bellicosissimo was in Afghanistan, the very masculine Afghani officers (in their culture) openly practiced pederasty. They didn’t bother with grooming. Many American soldiers objected, but they were disciplined if they did so overtly.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

LOL

Even a drag queen calls out parents that bring kids to drag shows.

 

The drag queen tells parents to leave their kids as a PR thing. Also tells them to not take their kids to adult clubs with drag shows. Duh, kids would be bored at an adult-themed drag show. Then the drag queen complains about kids being loud and annoying when they are around as if that is the primary reason they should stay away.

No exactly a “grooming” angle here. Did you even watch the video?

LOL right back I guess.

 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

Some yell "don't protect the homos". Some whisper their distain.  Some start threads on this sit that regularly demean and marginalize the LGBT community.  And some stand quietly by and never confront those that constantly attack the LGBT community.  

We have all seen the statement by Church leaders. Great guidance.  Does anyone here really believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints really treats the LGBT community the way Church leaders have asked?  Does BYU treat the LGBT community the way the Church leaders have asked?  I have seen this referenced at least twice in this thread that was designed to spur outrage against the LGBT community. My takeaway is the more TBM you are, the less one is likely to follow that counsel.

I know this is a bit harsh, but sometimes the weight of the constant demonizing and degrading the LGBT community gets pretty heavy to bear.  I also know this post will probably do very little to change those entrenched attitudes.

Yes, I really believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and BYU, on the whole, treat the LGBT community the way Church leaders have asked.

What was refenced twice on this thread designed to spur outrage against the LGBT community?

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks for expanding my horizons. I had never thought of drag shows being the equivalent to soldiers dressing as women as they killed, taunted, mocked, insulted, and belittled their enemies, or to relieve the intense emotional effects of war.  👍

When my son Bellicosissimo was in Afghanistan, the very masculine Afghani officers (in their culture) openly practiced pederasty. They didn’t bother with grooming. Many American soldiers objected, but they were disciplined if they did so overtly.

Your choice in child names may constitute child abuse.

[Bernard Gui]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Your choice in child names may constitute child abuse.

Perhaps, but they became strong adults as a result. Tip o’ the hat to Johnny Cash.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

37 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/05/elizabeth-smart-abstinence-only-sex-education-hurts-victims-of-rape-and-human-trafficking.html

When was the last time you heard the chewing gum analogy? Last time I heard it was in 1963. Most of us from that have passed beyond the analogy. Or simply passed. You can dress children modestly without telling him/her it could attract unsavory people.

[Tacenda]

Saw this on a FB post just now, pretty sweet. I like the angel outfits because of the murder of Matthew Shepard that was beaten and left to die because he was gay, in '98 in Wyoming and I think one of the killers was LDS. There are reasons for these rallies, our LGBTQ+ are in danger. And when I thought it was getting better, it suddenly isn't and I blame the political environment and the so called "wokeism". Here's the post:

 

A Tale of Two Police Departments

The last time I was in Provo (and right next door to the BYU campus) I was broadcasting the lighting of the iconic Y in rainbow and trans colors.

My coverage of that event was recently featured on ABC’s hit docu-series, “Mormon No More.”

That night, a group of LGBTQ supporters carried colored flashlights up a hill to shine lights of visibility to a marginalized community. BYU sent nearly a dozen police vehicles, men dressed in tactical gear and guns and under-cover officers to protect the public from flashlights.

According to BYU—and their law enforcement arm, the BYU Police Department, the lighting of the Y and similar demonstrations were misdemeanor acts.

BYU publicly warned that “demonstrators” would be arrested and criminally charged. Hiking the Y trail with a flashlight was, according to BYU, a punishable crime with jail time and $1,000 fine.

The Latter-day Saints applauded their Church’s power and stance.

Many months later, and standing in the exact same place where I broadcast the latest Y-Lighting event, I met another group of police officers—this time from Provo City.

The experience couldn’t have been more stark.

As we prepared for the BackToSchool Pride Event in Provo, Provo City officials were thorough and diligent in ensuring that safety and security were to be expected.

Provo’s Mayor, Michelle Kaufusi, the Chief of Police, and other Provo City officials worked behind the scenes to ensure that your family and friends could mingle, wave their rainbow, laugh, hug their friends, and find connection—safely.

As I was working inside my LatterGayStories booth, a tall, stately officer ducked under my canopy, extended his hand, called me by name, and thanked me for the work that I do. I don’t recall previously meeting him, yet he knew my name and he was familiar with my work. I felt his genuine sincerity.

I immediately remembered my experience in this same park just a year earlier. Two different police departments—two completely different attitudes and outcomes. The last time I was threatened with jail time and a fine—this time I was thanked for my advocacy.

Days prior to the BackToSchool Pride event, LGBTQ organizers were informed by Provo City that protestors, some from a national level, would be arriving to protest the gathering. LatterGayStories rallied the community together and prepared a counter-protest.

Initiate Operation Angel Wings.

Inspired by events from the 1999 trial of murdered gay student Matthew Shepherd, volunteers from the LatterGayStories audience rallied to donate, create, build, and wear enormous angel costumes designed to block these protestors from being easily viewed by event participants.

The angel wings worked beautifully—and the protestors couldn’t have imagined how united our little community is.

In addition to the angel wings, the Provo Police department sent a battalion of uniformed officers (sweating in the 102* September heat) to provide a visible police presence. The department also staged undercover officers to ensure safety for our participants.

Again, I couldn’t help but recognize the difference of love and concern the LGBTQ+ community received from two different police departments.

The officers from Provo City did an exceptional job at serving and protecting. They were professional, cordial, approachable, kind, pastoral, and visible.

BYU’s flagship Police Department wasn’t all of those things.

The same park.

The same advocates.

The same blend of rainbow.

Two totally different outcomes.

Thank you, Provo City for securing and ensuring the safety of free speech and demonstration. Thank you for being visible and professional. Thank you for showing up and for proving that communities can work together for common goals. Thank you for showing us what an effective police department looks like.

Thank you for keeping us safe.

BYU Police Department, you’ve got big shoes to fill.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+5

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, Durangout said:

When this is a person’s chosen form of entertainment and they share it with their children, it’s a pretty good guess.  Be sure to read the full conversation in the link below (language warning):

 

the pettiness of complaining about a drag show at  university is disgusting. I hope Lord sweeps out the wicked from protesting this. I'll take Klinger from MASH anyday. You Yankees have poisoned the well and now you are drinking from it and nobody cares whatever happens to you.

[jkwilliams]

22 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

When was the last time you heard the chewing gum analogy? Last time I heard it was in 1963. Most of us from that have passed beyond the analogy. Or simply passed. You can dress children modestly without telling him/her it could attract unsavory people.

My two older daughters got the licked cupcake lesson. Gross. 

[InCognitus]

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I would like my son and my friends to live in a world where they are not marginalized and bullied because of their sexual orientation. Ideally, this would involve not being compared to grooming pedophiles. One way I support them is to stand up against bigotry. For example, you wouldn't think there's something wrong with disapproving of people yelling "don't protect the homos," but apparently some people here think there is. 

Thanks for your answer to my question.  I don't think anyone who follows the teachings of the church would disagree with disapproving of the example you gave or any of your concerns about being bullied or marginalized, if that's the kind of "support" you had in mind.

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

The Cougar shots show the hypocrisy of that derision and vilification.  Neither shots are appropriate, yet the Cougar shots show the necessity of pointing out the hypocrisy that is expressed regularly and inappropriately on this forum and elsewhere in the Church.

You misunderstand my reason for downvoting your post.  It's the methodology of escalating the offensiveness of the images, not the images themselves in your recent post.  The continuation of that approach would result in trying to push the limits on either side of the argument, with one side posting images and saying:  "Are those images offensive?  If not those, how about these?"  (etc. etc. etc., getting worse and worse, into a downhill crash into absurdity).   I find the approach offensive.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

You misunderstand my reason for downvoting your post.  It's the methodology of escalating the offensiveness of the images, not the images themselves in your recent post.  The continuation of that approach would result in trying to push the limits on either side of the argument, with one side posting images and saying:  "Are those images offensive?  If not those, how about these?"  (etc. etc. etc., getting worse and worse, into a downhill crash into absurdity).   I find the approach offensive.

And the fact that you find the approach offensive enough to comment on and disapprove of, but didn’t find the original worth either is noteworthy. 

[InCognitus]

9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

And the fact that you find the approach offensive enough to comment on and disapprove of, but didn’t find the original worth either is noteworthy. 

I didn't comment on any of it until california boy said something about down votes to his post, and then I explained my reasoning.  I haven't been following this thread until the last couple of days (three-day weekend), and I haven't even read it from the beginning.  But starting a contest of trying to see who can post the most offensive images isn't something any of us need to see.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

3 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

most offensive images 

I'll let you know if I see any offensive images.

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/2/2022 at 12:02 PM, CV75 said:

Bernard Gui: Interesting comments

CV75:In what way?

You and I have been around here for a long time. Did you ever imagine that one day on this board refusing to embrace drag culture and to submit your children to being exposed to it would result in being called a hater and a bigot? That this would pit fellow Saints against you? Never in my dreams. Very interesting.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I'll let you know if I see any offensive images.

Ay, there’s the rub.

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

You and I have been around here for a long time. Did you ever imagine that one day on this board refusing to embrace drag culture and to submit your children to being exposed to it would result in being called a hater and a bigot? That this would pit fellow Saints against you? Never in my dreams. Very interesting.

I don't care if people embrace drag culture, and I certainly don't begrudge anyone if they think it's inappropriate for their kids. What I object to is the attribution of evil intent (alienating students from their families, sexualizing children, grooming for pedophilia) that seems to be stock in trade for these kinds of threads.