More Cultural and Moral Decay

[Bernard Gui]

41 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

With respect, if you don’t want to embrace drag culture don’t. Maybe just tell your friends to stop weaponizing this issue:

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/16/1105544325/drag-shows-children

Which friends would those be? 
Many on the other side have already weaponized the issue. One can have serious misgivings about why drag queens need to read to children, but the the proponents cast this opposition as yelling, bigoted, violent men. They do not tolerate non-embracers.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think though we are reading way, way too much into what children are thinking. Would they even know to be desensitized? Kids see clowns at the circus but I doubt they think it's a man dressed up in funny clothes and make up and would be desensitized. I think kids would see drag queens are just a funny looking person, they probably would think twice about the experience. Besides of which a drag show in this day an age pales in comparison to what some children are daily exposed to i.e. family violence, video games, alcoholism, drug abuse, latch key children, poverty, food insecurity, drugs. All that stuff is far worse than a drag show. If people don't want their kid to see a drag show then don't take them. Would a kid even know what a sexual activity is? 

Why do they need kids in their audience?

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Why do you need someone to define it for you? John has plainly laid out that ascribing unfounded motives and engaging in name calling are the things to which he objects. Other than that, I believe the New Testament said something about loving one another. You know, the golden rule, and all that.

Why not just answer the question? The golden rule has nothing to do with this.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think though we are reading way, way too much into what children are thinking. Would they even know to be desensitized? Kids see clowns at the circus but I doubt they think it's a man dressed up in funny clothes and make up and would be desensitized. I think kids would see drag queens are just a funny looking person, they probably would think twice about the experience. Besides of which a drag show in this day an age pales in comparison to what some children are daily exposed to i.e. family violence, video games, alcoholism, drug abuse, latch key children, poverty, food insecurity, drugs. All that stuff is far worse than a drag show. If people don't want their kid to see a drag show then don't take them. Would a kid even know what a sexual activity is? 

Have you been in the public schools? I have. Little kids are being sexualized. Even kindergarteners. 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

In short: resist all you want; just don’t be an ******* about it. 

Is protesting at a drag show or library reading going too far?

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Is protesting at a drag show or library reading going too far?

One can even protest without being a jerk. 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Voting, getting involved in local school board meetings, and whatever else one can do. Are you seriously asking me for approval of possible actions? Do what you want. My concern is the hatred and name calling (and no, I’m obviously not saying that applies to you). 

Those who do get involved as you suggested are shouted down, demonized, and called haters.  Do you think that is appropriate?

[Duncan]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Why do they need kids in their audience?

they don't "need" kids in their audience, it sounded like it was opened to everyone. 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Those who do get involved as you suggested are shouted down, demonized, and called haters.  Do you think that is appropriate?

It depends on whether they are actually hating. IMO, the protesters in Provo weren’t exactly acting with love and respect. 

[Duncan]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Have you been in the public schools? I have. Little kids are being sexualized. Even kindergarteners. 

I have! that isn't happening here and I highly doubt little kids even know what that means. 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Duncan said:

I have! that isn't happening here and I highly doubt little kids even know what that means. 

I’d like to hear about this sexualizing. I haven’t seen it with my grandkids, but you never know. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Which friends would those be? 
Many on the other side have already weaponized the issue. One can have serious misgivings about why drag queens need to read to children, but the the proponents cast this opposition as yelling, bigoted, violent men. They do not tolerate non-embracers.

I don’t want my children exposed to religious nonsense. So, wait for it, I don’t take them to church. I don’t legislate laws trying to ban religious nonsense. I don’t protest outside church’s. I don’t post on forums about how horrible people that take kids to church are. I just don’t take my kids to church. 
 

You don’t like the drag queen reading at the library, maybe you should not attend his book reading?

[Bernard Gui]

7 minutes ago, Duncan said:

they don't "need" kids in their audience, it sounded like it was opened to everyone. 

Advertising as “family friendly”, bring the kids, come to the library for story hour? 
Why do kids need this? Why do the drag folks need this.

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

You and I have been around here for a long time. Did you ever imagine that one day on this board refusing to embrace drag culture and to submit your children to being exposed to it would result in being called a hater and a bigot? That this would pit fellow Saints against you? Never in my dreams. Very interesting.

I find the parenting attitudes interesting, which certainly evoke emotional responses. One theme I see is that, since children are judgement-free beings in the first place, parents are responsible to nurture their freedom to explore safely, and in doing this, extrapolate where exposure to new experiences might lead, say from storytime and imagination play to acclimation to a particular sexual culture to political activism promoting that culture. Child-development wise, introducing later stages of experience earlier is clearly not good for children, and with regards to this thread, neither is the tendency for parents to live through their children via entertainment and activism.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Those who do get involved as you suggested are shouted down, demonized, and called haters.  Do you think that is appropriate?

So in your perfect world, you want to be able to show up, protest at a drag queen book reading (utilizing your first amendment right) and then silence others from using their first amendment rights? How about I show up at the next general conference to protest and then afterwards complain about how people called me anti-Mormon and anti religious… 

[Bernard Gui]

6 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I have! that isn't happening here and I highly doubt little kids even know what that means. 

Spend a month in primary grade classrooms. You will find it disturbing. Sister Gui and I taught school for many years in a conservative Washington city. Many kindergartners are quite savvy. It gets worse as they progress through the grades. We should all be concerned for or children.

Where is here? 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Spend a month in primary grade classrooms. You will find it disturbing. Sister Gui and I taught school for many years in a conservative Washington city. Many kindergartners are quite savvy. It gets worse as they progress through the grades. We should all be concerned for or children.

Where is here? 

So, to be clear, who is doing the sexualizing? The school? Parents? Society?

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

And those who do not acquiesce are pilloried here.

Yep. Meek, insubstantial disagreement might be tolerated in some circumstances if it's deemed not 'hateful' (i.e., unlikely to harm the cause). Anything else triggers an Alma-and-Amulek in Ammonihah reaction, and the gnashing of teeth can continue for pages even after -- as Alma did -- one ceases engaging.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Bernard Gui]

10 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So in your perfect world, you want to be able to show up, protest at a drag queen book reading (utilizing your first amendment right) and then silence others from using their first amendment rights? How about I show up at the next general conference to protest and then afterwards complain about how people called me anti-Mormon and anti religious… 

I don’t want my children exposed to religious nonsense. So, wait for it, I don’t take them to church. I don’t legislate laws trying to ban religious nonsense. I don’t protest outside church’s. I don’t post on forums about how horrible people that take kids to church are. I just don’t take my kids to church. 
 

You don’t like the drag queen reading at the library, maybe you should not attend his book reading?

The world isn’t perfect. Never has been.

This  is an excellent example of the unreasonable reactions to opposing drag shows for kids.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

So, to be clear, who is doing the sexualizing? The school? Parents? Society?

Yes, and more. Who is looking out for the kids?

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, and more. Who is looking out for the kids?

What was the school doing? That’s the one thing parents can affect. 

[Duncan]

20 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Advertising as “family friendly”, bring the kids, come to the library for story hour? 
Why do kids need this? Why do the drag folks need this.

they didn't advertise for the library though, I don't think anyone "needs" it but some people want their kids to know that drag queens are not scary people or people to be shunned. You do realize that drag queens don't wear their costimes 24-7, they have jobs and some have families even

[Duncan]

16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Spend a month in primary grade classrooms. You will find it disturbing. Sister Gui and I taught school for many years in a conservative Washington city. Many kindergartners are quite savvy. It gets worse as they progress through the grades. We should all be concerned for or children.

Where is here? 

Canada

[SeekingUnderstanding]

13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The world isn’t perfect. Never has been.

This  is an excellent example of the unreasonable reactions to opposing drag shows for kids.

Are you saying reading a library book is a “drag show for kids”?

[Bernard Gui]

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Are you saying reading a library book is a “drag show for kids”?

Are you saying it isn’t? What is the purpose? We’ll have to disagree.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Bernard Gui