Unconditional love does not mean unconditional blessings

[Scott Lloyd]

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are unconditional. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[JLHPROF]

True.  Blessings are conditional on obedience to applicable law and God's timing.

[Ginger Snaps]

25 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are conditional. 

Did you mean unconditional? 

[JAHS]

President Nelson once said.
"While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional. The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us—and certain divine blessings stemming from that love—are conditional." 
(Divine Love By Elder Russell M. Nelson 2003)

[Scott Lloyd]

39 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are conditional. 

President Oaks just augmented this thought with his quote to the effect that one cannot wish his way into the presence of God but must obey the commandments upon which that blessing is predicated. 

[Scott Lloyd]

21 minutes ago, Ginger Snaps said:

Did you mean unconditional? 

Yes. Thank you for making that vital correction. I’ll fix my post. 

[Robert F. Smith]

48 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are conditional. 

Didn't you mean "unconditional" as the last word?

EDIT:  O.K. I see that this has already been mentioned?

Edited October 2, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[Scott Lloyd]

Posted in error. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Didn't you mean "unconditional" as the last word?

EDIT:  O.K. I see that this has already been mentioned?

My thanks to you and Ginger Snaps. I’ve made the fix. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Duncan]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

President Oaks just augmented this thought with his quote to the effect that one cannot wish his way into the presence of God but must obey the commandments upon which that blessing is predicated. 

well, according to the scriptures everyone will stand in the presence of God, whether you want to or not. I think though it's a question of dwelling with God, if you keep your covenants. It's one thing to stand at someone's door, it's another for them to let you in.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

well, according to the scriptures everyone will stand in the presence of God, whether you want to or not. I think though it's a question of dwelling with God, if you keep your covenants. It's one thing to stand at someone's door, it's another for them to let you in.

I think the intended meaning of the quote is dwelling in the presence of God, not standing before the judgment bar of God. You are correct, of course, that we all will have to do that. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are conditional. 

 

50 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

True.  Blessings are conditional on obedience to applicable law and God's timing.

However, the Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional -- see the typical description online at https://www.gotquestions.org/Abrahamic-covenant.html

[Rivers]

58 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Elder D. Todd Christofferson, in his conference address, just drew an important distinction: God’s love is unconditional, but that does not mean His blessings and salvation are unconditional. 

Terryl Givens once said holiness isn’t imputed.  Holiness is achieved by becoming holy.  

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

However, the Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional -- see the typical description online at https://www.gotquestions.org/Abrahamic-covenant.html

Christ’s gift is unconditional in the sense that all will be resurrected regardless of behavior. But I think Elder Christofferson’s comment pertains to the conditional portion of His gift, which is exaltation in the presence of God. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Robert F. Smith]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Christ’s gift is unconditional in the sense that all will be resurrected regardless of behavior. But I think Elder Christofferson’s comment pertains to the conditional portion of His gift, which is glorification in the presence of God. 

Those features are not part of the Abrahamic Covenant.  There are a number of covenants, including the conditional Mosaic Covenant, and the well-known Nephite Covenant.  Some things are offered conditional upon repentance, others are absolute.

[JLHPROF]

36 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

However, the Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional -- see the typical description online at https://www.gotquestions.org/Abrahamic-covenant.html

In skimming the article it appears contradictory.

For example, it says that it only requires God to keep it but as the same time it says  people can declare themselves outside the covenant.  That make staying in conditional.

[katherine the great]

28 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Those features are not part of the Abrahamic Covenant.  There are a number of covenants, including the conditional Mosaic Covenant, and the well-known Nephite Covenant.  Some things are offered conditional upon repentance, others are absolute.

Some of you may wish to consult with a divine attorney. Personally, I’m fine with a trust. (As long as Jesus as the trustee)

[pogi]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

President Nelson once said.
"While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional. The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us—and certain divine blessings stemming from that love—are conditional." 
(Divine Love By Elder Russell M. Nelson 2003)

I remember this talk well.  It is one of the extremely few talks that I have ever heard in conference that I struggled with.  While I understand what President Nelson was saying, and I think that President Nelson and Elder Christofferson are essentially saying the same thing, I personally like Elder Christofferson's approach of affirming God's unconditional love.  God's love is unconditional from my perspective, his hands are always extended towards us.  Our acceptance of his love is conditional, however.  We have to walk into his arms.  He will not force us to Him. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by pogi

[JAHS]

47 minutes ago, pogi said:

I remember this talk well.  It is one of the extremely few talks that I have ever heard in conference that I struggled with.  While I understand what President Nelson was saying, and I think that President Nelson and Elder Christofferson are essentially saying the same thing, I personally like Elder Christofferson's approach of affirming God's unconditional love.  God's love is unconditional from my perspective, his hands are always extended towards us.  Our acceptance of his love is conditional, however.  We have to walk into his arms.  He will not force us to Him. 

I struggled with that one too but after more study I understood better what he was saying. I feel like my love for my 12 year old grandson is unconditional, but No matter how much I love him I am not going to let him drive my truck. He has to prove himself able and qualified before he can do that. We have to prove ourselves worthy and become the kind of soul that can abide eternal life with God.

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Christ’s gift is unconditional in the sense that all will be resurrected regardless of behavior. But I think Elder Christofferson’s comment pertains to the conditional portion of His gift, which is exaltation in the presence of God. 

Based on the following words of testimony from Alma, t’s hard to imagine that the resurrection from the dead for the unrepentant can in anyway be construed to be some sort of “gift.”

16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

17 Then is the time (the time of resurrection of the unrepentant) when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will.

18 Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption. (Alma 12)

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by teddyaware

[Scott Lloyd]

48 minutes ago, pogi said:

I remember this talk well.  It is one of the extremely few talks that I have ever heard in conference that I struggled with.  While I understand what President Nelson was saying, and I think that President Nelson and Elder Christofferson are essentially saying the same thing, I personally like Elder Christofferson's approach of affirming God's unconditional love.  God's love is unconditional from my perspective, his hands are always extended towards us.  Our acceptance of his love is conditional, however.  We have to walk into his arms.  He will not force us to Him. 

To my knowledge, President Nelson did not make that statement in general conference, but rather, in an article in the February 2003 Ensign magazine. 
 

I think he might have been obliquely addressing a growing sentiment that one’s sins don’t really matter because after all, God’s love is unconditional, meaning He will accept everyone into His presence no matter what. This erroneous notion, of course, is contrary to the divine nature of God. Elder Nelson in his article sought to define God’s perfect and eternal love, which definition excludes the conception that any unclean thing can enter into His presence.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Based on the following words of testimony from Alma, t’s hard to imagine that the resurrection from the dead for the unrepentant can in anyway be construed to be some sort of “gift.”

16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

17 Then is the time (the time of resurrection of the unrepentant) when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will.

18 Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption. (Alma 12)

 

It would certainly not be efficacious, just as the light of Christ, a universal gift to all who are born into mortality, is not efficacious unless one responds to it. 

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Based on the following words of testimony from Alma, t’s hard to imagine that the resurrection from the dead for the unrepentant can in anyway be construed to be some sort of “gift.”

16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.

17 Then is the time (the time of resurrection of the unrepentant) when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will.

18 Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption. (Alma 12)

 

Those doomed to perdition are hardly a good archetype for the majority of the unrepentant.

[teddyaware]

12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Those doomed to perdition are hardly a good archetype for the majority of the unrepentant.

So does this indicate you believe the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will remain unrepentant after their resurrection, even though, D&C 76 testifies they will receive the ministry of the Holy Spirit in eternity and that at the time of their resurrection they will bow the knee to God the Father and confess unto him that Jesus is the Christ? If so, it helps me to understand why your so churlish. 😊

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

So does this indicate you believe the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom will remain unrepentant after their resurrection, even though, D&C 76 testifies they will receive the ministry of the Holy Spirit in eternity and that at the time of their resurrection they will bow the knee to God the Father and confess unto him that Jesus is the Christ? If so, it helps me to understand why your so churlish. 😊

I am not sure that bowing to God means being repentant.

Edit: And I am just a churl in general.

Edited October 2, 2021 by The Nehor