Masks Required in Temples

[Danzo]

16 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thanks, mate, but not upset at all. That's not my thing. 

I certainly hope you're right! I haven't set foot in America in over a decade, so my impressions are based on what I read. The last First Presidency letter certainly generated some interesting responses on the Church's Facebook post from people claiming to be 'salt of the earth' types (and all of them Americans from my quick perusal of their profiles):

• 'My faith is strong and I am a faithful member, BUT I am not okay with this post. There is tons of information and experts that do NOT agree with this'.
• 'My heart is breaking over this. I have free agency and I choose to NOT get this vaccine!!!!'
• 'I truly resent this!!!! I can not even express how upset I am about this. Me and my family will serve the Lord'.
• 'What if our government are tyrants who are after our liberty? This is truly discouraging. I will continue to strive to hear HIM'.
• 'LEAD IN LOVE. Not control! DO BETTER!'
• 'This makes me feel so sick'.
• ' I’m so confused and conflicted. So I get to choose between what my heart tells me and what the prophet I trust tells me?'
• 'Following the wise and thoughtful counsel of prophets, seers, and revelators would be nice if they weren't deferring to medical experts and government officials for their guidance'.
• 'It is never okay for the church to give blanket medical advice'.

I note that, with this most recent statement, the decision was made to have no public comments ...

 

I think one of the things about following a prophet or following a promting is that we often need to do so in faith, not knowing (or maybe agreeing) with the direction itself.

The fact that I think mask wearing is often silly, shouldn't keep me from following the direction of our leaders.   I have often done things that I thought were silly when asked to by my leaders. (I usually think it rather silly whenever I am giving a calling given that I am usually not very good at it and there are often much better people that could have been choosen). I am usually blessed for it.

I was able to attend a session of the temple last night and wearing a mask (that I wasn't thrilled to be wearing) was a small price to pay for the blessings I received. 

[Danzo]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/38-church-policies-and-guidelines?lang=eng

You should also read the preceding paragraph as well as the first paragraph of 38.1.1

 

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

You think?  Or do you know now?  Not a tease I would say but I do have a sense of humor and I like to be playful while teaching and just sharing my ideas and beliefs with others. 

Well, it worked, I fell for it! I apologize if I've been mean about it or rude. 

[Danzo]

18 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

This is me guessing from my own perspective from the more cautious end of things (vaxx’d, mask in public, social distancing whenever possible, don’t attend church beyond 2nd hour every two weeks for my YW calling). With church - though it’s limited - there is still access to services if you don’t feel comfortable being around unmasked individuals for long periods of time. With the temple there isn’t.

I used to attend the temple regularly. Pre-baby it was weekly as a temple worker and post I was just starting to think of ways to attend more often (goal was monthly) but we still had gone a few times. since covid i haven’t gone at all. last week was the first time we tried and we decided to leave because a good amount of patrons were unmasked. Most workers were masked proper, though two in the sealing office might as well not have been. I wasn’t offended, but neither of us felt comfortable with the idea of staying. we left and chatted outside the temple instead. I was definitely a little dejected though at first. I’m hopeful that with the change, maybe we can go again and try our luck. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

It sounds like you are very worried about getting Covid. I would assume that is because of some sort of medical condition or are at some heightened risk.   In that case I would advise you to avoid gatherings (masked or not).  Social distincing is the best way to avoid the disease. Most people I know who got the covid, got it while wearing masks.  Mask wearing may help slow transmission some, but it isn't a substitute for social distancing.   I fear, that with the variability of mask wearing in general (not covering the nose, not using the right cloth, touching the face, etc) that the presense of masks would give you a false sense of security. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Danzo

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

We went to the temple last night, everyone wore a mask. Its kind of sad they don't in your neck of the woods.

I really don't like masks, I think they are unconfortable and not very effective, but I feel the same way about wearing a tie.  I wore both yesterday because I wanted to go to the temple, and I am not going to let my discomfort keep me from the blessings of the temple.

Putting a mask on is a very small price to pay. 

Amen about the ties.

I went from wearing one every day to now I haven't worn one in a few years. It's been glorious.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

This whole time I think bOO bOO is being a tease. Who knew?

But then you engage and it's all downhill from there  

[bOObOO]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

But then you engage and it's all downhill from there  

You're so sweet.  Where did you learn to be so kind?

[cinepro]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yes, it's always fascinating when the Saints defy their prophets, I find.

That's been the case here, too. It seems quite silly for Church leaders to care more about the health and wellbeing of members than secular governments do.

Not in America:

Probably going by cases, not deaths...

Edited September 25, 2021 by cinepro

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Danzo said:

We went to the temple last night, everyone wore a mask. Its kind of sad they don't in your neck of the woods.

I really don't like masks, I think they are unconfortable and not very effective, but I feel the same way about wearing a tie.  I wore both yesterday because I wanted to go to the temple, and I am not going to let my discomfort keep me from the blessings of the temple.

Putting a mask on is a very small price to pay. 

You know, I might have asked those workers, (I presume) about if there were regulations about wearing masks, and telling them you wanted to do some proxy sealings, but felt uncomfortable about the mask situation.

I would have loved to hear the answer 

I guess if they were really "optional", there would not be much you could do, before this announcement

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, bOObOO said:

Also nice to see all of a person's face.  And it makes it easier for a person who knows how to read lips.  George Bush didn't explain how to do that when he asked people to read his lips. Imagine how much harder it would have been if he had had a mask on.

Seriously, little kids in school need to see the teacher’s eyes, face, and lips as they learn to read. 

[InCognitus]

7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

For them it's an issue of agency (not saying I agree, just understand).

Every choice we make to keep the commandments, or follow the prophet, or follow the guidelines of the church, it is all a matter of agency.  It just seems like such an odd and simple request to put one over the edge.  It is so incredibly minor compared to other choices. 

7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

The first 3 items are scripturally backed commandments.  The last is not.

I know more than a few people who are preparing to quit their jobs over vaccine mandates.  Must be nice to have the luxury of that decision.
But people refuse to be told what to do unless they believe it's directly from God, and sometimes not even then.

Most of the details of what we wear and what we do in the temple aren't found in the scriptures.  There is obviously some political or cultural stigma that people perceive with a mask mandate that they just can't overcome. It is just so very odd to me.  I don't know the right approach with people in this situation, because it would be best to help them somehow rather than drive the wedge between them and the church even deeper.   But church worship and temple attendance isn't the place to protest perceived cultural or political objections.

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Amen about the ties.

I went from wearing one every day to now I haven't worn one in a few years. It's been glorious.

I have some really cool ties that I would miss wearing. 

[Bernard Gui]

21 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Thanks, mate, but not upset at all. That's not my thing. 

I certainly hope you're right! I haven't set foot in America in over a decade, so my impressions are based on what I read. The last First Presidency letter certainly generated some interesting responses on the Church's Facebook post from people claiming to be 'salt of the earth' types (and all of them Americans from my quick perusal of their profiles):

• 'My faith is strong and I am a faithful member, BUT I am not okay with this post. There is tons of information and experts that do NOT agree with this'.
• 'My heart is breaking over this. I have free agency and I choose to NOT get this vaccine!!!!'
• 'I truly resent this!!!! I can not even express how upset I am about this. Me and my family will serve the Lord'.
• 'What if our government are tyrants who are after our liberty? This is truly discouraging. I will continue to strive to hear HIM'.
• 'LEAD IN LOVE. Not control! DO BETTER!'
• 'This makes me feel so sick'.
• ' I’m so confused and conflicted. So I get to choose between what my heart tells me and what the prophet I trust tells me?'
• 'Following the wise and thoughtful counsel of prophets, seers, and revelators would be nice if they weren't deferring to medical experts and government officials for their guidance'.
• 'It is never okay for the church to give blanket medical advice'.

I note that, with this most recent statement, the decision was made to have no public comments ...

 

Judging the faithfulness of millions of American Saints based on the Facebook comments of the tiny few who bother to post there is neither reasonable nor fair.

.

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Judging the faithfulness of millions of American Saints based on the Facebook comments of the tiny few who bother to post there is neither reasonable nor fair.

Agreed. Good thing I didn’t do that!

[BlueDreams]

5 hours ago, Danzo said:

It sounds like you are very worried about getting Covid. I would assume that is because of some sort of medical condition or are at some heightened risk.   In that case I would advise you to avoid gatherings (masked or not).  Social distincing is the best way to avoid the disease. Most people I know who got the covid, got it while wearing masks.  Mask wearing may help slow transmission some, but it isn't a substitute for social distancing.   I fear, that with the variability of mask wearing in general (not covering the nose, not using the right cloth, touching the face, etc) that the presense of masks would give you a false sense of security. 

I am concerned for my daughter, who has a genetic condition. I hold no concern at this point for me and my husband. I know the likelihood of her getting super sick directly from covid is minimal. But that’s not our main concern. It’s really easy to throw off her metabolic system. For reference, She got a fever last weekend from what we think was a mild ear infection and she needed to get blood work to double check her ammonia levels. Her specific variation of her genetic disorder is rare. I’m not really willing to mix novel disease with it if we can avoid it. Her doc’s agree.
 

And I’m well oriented in the research and interventions for slowing covid spread (for the record I don’t think masking is useless). Both my husband and I work primarily from home since covid. The few clients I see in person are vaccinated, and I see them every other week. Last fall-early spring we saw basically no one in person. When we are in public with her, it’s brief and usually with larger gaps. The one exception was to a place that strongly regulated proper mask use and the summer when numbers got super low (and then, only outdoors or with small gatherings). This fall I will clip seeing the friends with school aged children till they’re vaccinated. It won’t be as bad as last year because we can still see most of my adult family who are all vaxxed. My daughter never comes to church with me…the YW were surprised to learn I have a kid. When I do go, I wait till everyone is in class, slip in the back door, and leave promptly, all while wearing a kn95 that I never remove. I more actively participated during the summer, I’m still debating how I’ll participate in the fall. 

I in no way have a false sense of security from the mere presence of a mask. Masks worn wrong are not comforting. I have names for different types of wrong wear styles: the barely counts maskers, nasal drips, chin-strappers, ear accessories, constant exceptions, and of course the freedom lovers for those proudly sporting nothing. I have become adept at noticing them all and work to avoid them/maintain distance in the one place I still frequently go to indoors: the grocery store. Plans have been carefully made around the factors of covid risk for each family/personal outing we make. 

 

This has been my life for the last 20 months. Which in part was part of my dejected sense at the temple. That stories like mine are lost to the crowd of those who resist or ignore safety measures or insist it’s their choice. and largely because of that, a place I used to associate with respite, is a place I felt uncomfortable and mildly anxious in. If they did their part, I likely would have more freedom of movement and ability to participate. Because they won’t, I have a heavier burden to carry in order to compensate for their “choice”. Which is also probably why I feel little when I hear their worries and reasons around masking. 

with luv, 

BD 

[BlueDreams]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

You know, I might have asked those workers, (I presume) about if there were regulations about wearing masks, and telling them you wanted to do some proxy sealings, but felt uncomfortable about the mask situation.

I would have loved to hear the answer 

I guess if they were really "optional", there would not be much you could do, before this announcement

 

We did, sorta. That’s why we went up to the sealing office to ask how many would be to a room for sealings before we got ready. That’s when I saw the two who weren’t really wearing a mask properly. My husband is generally very direct and mentioned our concern. They didn’t much respond to the concern itself but mentioned how many were to a room usually. It was after that we decided it was best we left. 
 

This was all before the announcement, which again is why I’m hopeful and willing to try one more time. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

[Peacefully]

2 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I am concerned for my daughter, who has a genetic condition. I hold no concern at this point for me and my husband. I know the likelihood of her getting super sick directly from covid is minimal. But that’s not our main concern. It’s really easy to throw off her metabolic system. For reference, She got a fever last weekend from what we think was a mild ear infection and she needed to get blood work to double check her ammonia levels. Her specific variation of her genetic disorder is rare. I’m not really willing to mix novel disease with it if we can avoid it. Her doc’s agree.
 

And I’m well oriented in the research and interventions for slowing covid spread (for the record I don’t think masking is useless). Both my husband and I work primarily from home since covid. The few clients I see in person are vaccinated, and I see them every other week. Last fall-early spring we saw basically no one in person. When we are in public with her, it’s brief and usually with larger gaps. The one exception was to a place that strongly regulated proper mask use and the summer when numbers got super low (and then, only outdoors or with small gatherings). This fall I will clip seeing the friends with school aged children till they’re vaccinated. It won’t be as bad as last year because we can still see most of my adult family who are all vaxxed. My daughter never comes to church with me…the YW were surprised to learn I have a kid. When I do go, I wait till everyone is in class, slip in the back door, and leave promptly, all while wearing a kn95 that I never remove. I more actively participated during the summer, I’m still debating how I’ll participate in the fall. 

I in no way have a false sense of security from the mere presence of a mask. Masks worn wrong are not comforting. I have names for different types of wrong wear styles: the barely counts maskers, nasal drips, chin-strappers, ear accessories, constant exceptions, and of course the freedom lovers for those proudly sporting nothing. I have become adept at noticing them all and work to avoid them/maintain distance in the one place I still frequently go to indoors: the grocery store. Plans have been carefully made around the factors of covid risk for each family/personal outing we make. 

 

This has been my life for the last 20 months. Which in part was part of my dejected sense at the temple. That stories like mine are lost to the crowd of those who resist or ignore safety measures or insist it’s their choice. and largely because of that, a place I used to associate with respite, is a place I felt uncomfortable and mildly anxious in. If they did their part, I likely would have more freedom of movement and ability to participate. Because they won’t, I have a heavier burden to carry in order to compensate for their “choice”. Which is also probably why I feel little when I hear their worries and reasons around masking. 

with luv, 

BD 

Very well said! We also have our reasons for being cautious and since several at church have chosen not to mask themselves or their children, and don’t see a need to social distance, even after the First Presidency message was read, then we must make the choice to not attend in person. 

[Bernard Gui]

29 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Agreed. Good thing I didn’t do that!

Of course you did. It’s not the first nor will it be the last time that you have disparaged American Saints. Still waiting.

Quote

The last First Presidency letter certainly generated some interesting responses on the Church's Facebook post from people claiming to be 'salt of the earth' types (and all of them Americans from my quick perusal of their profiles):

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[mfbukowski]

17 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

We did, sorta. That’s why we went up to the sealing office to ask how many would be to a room for sealings before we got ready. That’s when I saw the two who weren’t really wearing a mask properly. My husband is generally very direct and mentioned our concern. They didn’t much respond to the concern itself but mentioned how many were to a room usually. It was after that we decided it was best we left. 
 

This was all before the announcement, which again is why I’m hopeful and willing to try one more time. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

So sorry that happened

Maybe for the first time in a long time, I am glad to be over regulated here in the People's Republic