Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Ah yes, let's not ask any unpleasant questions and just trust what our leaders say.  This is supposed to not be about politics but you couldn't resist.

I didn’t make it about politics. Asking questions is good. Asking questions and pretending there are no answers or explanations is deceptive and a favored tactic of conspiracy theorists of every stripe. It is also, in this specific case, the kind of deception that gets people killed.

[Fether]

My coworkers wife got the vaccine and it amplified her arthritis to the point the CDC paid them a lot of money to fly out to Atlanta to figure out what’s going on.

Ive also heard a few stories of woman’s menstrual cycles being affected by it. The experts are saying it won’t affect fertility, but so wonder how they can be so sure about it when we are still finding new side affects for this vaccine that is still relatively new.

[Chum]

20 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Are the mRNA vaccines really safe and effective?

Yep. You brought that question here but wound up with the correct answer anyway. What will you do with it?

[Chum]

7 minutes ago, Fether said:

My coworkers wife got the vaccine and it amplified her arthritis to the point the CDC paid them a lot of money to fly out to Atlanta to figure out what’s going on.

For context, we ought to include that this outcome would have been so much worse, had it been a Covid infection.

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, Fether said:

My coworkers wife got the vaccine and it amplified her arthritis to the point the CDC paid them a lot of money to fly out to Atlanta to figure out what’s going on.

Ive also heard a few stories of woman’s menstrual cycles being affected by it. The experts are saying it won’t affect fertility, but so wonder how they can be so sure about it when we are still finding new side affects for this vaccine that is still relatively new.

The menstrual period shift is not completely unexpected. It is an uncommon symptom and it is temporary but similar responses have been seen in other vaccines including flu shots.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353

There is no reason to suspect any impact on fertility or that it will harm someone who is pregnant or their child. This response is being studied to ensure it is nothing more.

The arthritis reaction is probably what is called “reactive arthritis”. Usually it occurs when someone gets an infection (specific kinds of infections only) or certain STIs and the immune response of the body causes inflammation which causes joint pain. She already had arthritis so if a similar effect was triggered it would be more painful. The good news is that if this is the cause it should fade away over a few months. Of course this severe a reaction is rare so the CDC does want to study it on the off-chance it is something more. If it is not something more they definitely want to get more information on the reaction in any case.

Caveat: I am not a doctor. This is just my best read based on reading way too much about Covid and vaccines in the last year.

Edited August 8, 2021 by The Nehor

[Harry T. Clark]

4 minutes ago, Chum said:

Yep. You brought that question here but wound up with the correct answer anyway. What will you do with it?

What will I do with it?  I will agree with the conclusion.

However, it is too early to tell at this point.  There are a lot of adverse reactions to these and there hasn't been enough time to make an informed decision.  Most vaccines go through 10 years of study to see the long term effects.  So, at this point, perhaps the narrative is correct regarding the mRNA vaccines but perhaps is isn't.  What will you do with the information if it turns out that the mRNA vaccines aren't as safe and effective as currently being advertised?

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

The menstrual period shift is not completely unexpected. It is an uncommon symptom and it is temporary but similar responses have been seen in other vaccines including flu shots.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56901353

There is no reason to suspect any impact on fertility or that it will harm someone who is pregnant or their child. This response is being studied to ensure it is nothing more.

The arthritis reaction is probably what is called “reactive arthritis”. Usually it occurs when someone gets an infection (specific kinds of infections only) or certain STIs and the immune response of the body causes inflammation which causes joint pain. She already had arthritis so if a similar effect was triggered it would be more painful. The good news is that if this is the cause it should fade away over a few months. Of course this severe a reaction is rare so the CDC does want to study it on the off-chance it is something more. If it is not something more they definitely want to get more information on the reaction in any case.

It must be rare enough for CDC to fly out to check her. Glad they are doing that. I think it's good for people to say what happens when they get the vaccine if it's severe or a long haul and shouldn't be fearful they'll be labeled anti-vaxer. Things need to be figured out and studied in order to conquer this deadly virus. 

[Chum]

5 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I will agree with the conclusion.

However, it is too early to tell at this point.

I didn't realize your conclusions had such a short half life.

[Metis_LDS]

This morning I had been assigned a talk at Church and spent the whole one hour meeting on the stand looking at the members faces,  my heart was broken.  The look of weariness was difficult to witness.   They were the same people but fewer and seemed stiffer than before covid in reactions to the talks. (I am not complaining)  IMO it was easy to discern that the Saints are suffering because of covid.  

[SeekingUnderstanding]

45 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Perhaps so, however, the data could mean that the vaccine isn't working as well as originally thought.  The N.Y. Times has an article that asks this question that we all should be asking.  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/science/covid-vaccine-israel-pfizer.html

Didn’t see a single question in the article, but lots of fantastic information. It’s now (since the article was published) become more clear that the delta variant is able to infect the vaccinated, though data still suggests good protection against severe disease. Some viruses mutate quickly and unfortunately this appears to be one of them. 

45 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Are the mRNA vaccines really safe and effective? 

 

All signs point to yes!

45 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Perhaps going with a new technology was a mistake?

All signs point to no. The speed and effectiveness of these vaccines is nothing short of breathtaking for anyone that isn’t pushing an agenda. 

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

spent the whole one hour meeting on the stand looking at the members faces,  my heart was broken.  The look of weariness was difficult to witness.

Before Covid, I often felt that prolonged wariness was too taboo to recognize.

[Harry T. Clark]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I didn’t make it about politics. Asking questions is good. Asking questions and pretending there are no answers or explanations is deceptive and a favored tactic of conspiracy theorists of every stripe. It is also, in this specific case, the kind of deception that gets people killed.

1. As long as the right conclusion is reached, correct?

2. Didn't do that.  It is too early to tell whether or not the mRNA vaccines will act as advertised and questioning their effectiveness is what I hope scientists everywhere are doing and not just trusting Pfizer, et al.

3. Please elaborate on this because I think this goes back to not being willing to ask questions and not being skeptical of pharmaceutical company claims.  You assume that the course taken is correct when it is still up in the air and should always be.  We should always be willing to admit mistakes and be willing to correct our course of action when deemed necessary.  You assume, almost with religious fervor, that the decisions and push for all to be vaccinated by the new, untested mRNA vaccines is the only course.  What about alternative treatments?  If there are alternatives to vaccines, shouldn't we be looking at them?  Ivermectin has proven to be safe and effective. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33592050/ ; https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html  Recently, researchers found that a cholesterol drug reduces covid by 70%.  https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-drug-sars-cov-infection-cent-reveals.html

In you mind, is the vaccine the only way to not promote getting people killed?  You know there have been a lot of reports on vaers of people dying from the vaccine.  Do you think those reports are all false? 

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

However, it is too early to tell at this point. 

No, it isn't.

6 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

There are a lot of adverse reactions to these and there hasn't been enough time to make an informed decision.

No, there are not. The reactions are about on par with other vaccines. It is just that so many people are getting these vaccines at the same time that it seems there are more.

8 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Most vaccines go through 10 years of study to see the long term effects. 

WRONG! FALSE! ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! It usually takes about ten years to create a new vaccine but that includes time spent researching the disease, how it works, and how it spreads. Then you develop the vaccine. No one was injected at the beginning of the ten year process with a vaccine that is approved at the end. Once the vaccine is developed and some animal safety testing (usually) is done you start with phase 1, 2, and 3 testing. You know, like we did. This is what happened. The early parts of the process were accelerated due to the whole thing being a pandemic and not a fringe disease that it would be nice to have a vaccine for.

So again, completely WRONG!

14 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

So, at this point, perhaps the narrative is correct regarding the mRNA vaccines but perhaps is isn't.

Your premises are false so your conclusion is false.

16 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

What will you do with the information if it turns out that the mRNA vaccines aren't as safe and effective as currently being advertised?

Live with it. There is a very very very very (huge orders of magnitude) small chance that the vaccine might kill everyone in 20 years or something. On the other hand we are saving a lot of lives now and there is not a small chance of that. It is working. People who receive the vaccine are not dying. People of all ages who would have experienced long term side effects of surviving Covid that might have lasted the rest of their lives are not having to deal with a decrease in physical and mental ability.

So are you going to go back to the liars who were feeding you this tripe and tell them off? Or at least vow never to listen to or trust them again? Or will you continue to abase yourself before them and parrot their talking points in the hopes next time they won't be so completely wrong? More importantly are you okay with the idea that people who listen to and trust you may suffer or die because they did so?

[Harry T. Clark]

20 minutes ago, Chum said:

I didn't realize your conclusions had such a short half life.

Your comment is disingenuous but who's looking?

[Harry T. Clark]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it isn't.

No, there are not. The reactions are about on par with other vaccines. It is just that so many people are getting these vaccines at the same time that it seems there are more.

WRONG! FALSE! ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! It usually takes about ten years to create a new vaccine but that includes time spent researching the disease, how it works, and how it spreads. Then you develop the vaccine. No one was injected at the beginning of the ten year process with a vaccine that is approved at the end. Once the vaccine is developed and some animal safety testing (usually) is done you start with phase 1, 2, and 3 testing. You know, like we did. This is what happened. The early parts of the process were accelerated due to the whole thing being a pandemic and not a fringe disease that it would be nice to have a vaccine for.

So again, completely WRONG!

Your premises are false so your conclusion is false.

Live with it. There is a very very very very (huge orders of magnitude) small chance that the vaccine might kill everyone in 20 years or something. On the other hand we are saving a lot of lives now and there is not a small chance of that. It is working. People who receive the vaccine are not dying. People of all ages who would have experienced long term side effects of surviving Covid that might have lasted the rest of their lives are not having to deal with a decrease in physical and mental ability.

So are you going to go back to the liars who were feeding you this tripe and tell them off? Or at least vow never to listen to or trust them again? Or will you continue to abase yourself before them and parrot their talking points in the hopes next time they won't be so completely wrong? More importantly are you okay with the idea that people who listen to and trust you may suffer or die because they did so?

I think we need to put in caps that YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR OR SCIENTIST but act as though you are.  There are many actual scientists like Dr. Robert Malone and Dr. Michael Yeadon who give alternatives to the narrative. 

On another note, why do you think Pfizer, et al demanded to be relieved from any liability?  These vaccines are supposedly safe and effective and according to you, the adverse effects are negligible.  So why the need to be relieved from a liability that, seemingly by definition, won't ever accrue?  Would you support eliminating the immunity from suit for these companies, given how safe and effective the vaccines are? 

[rodheadlee]

So how many unvaccinated covid-19 infected immigrants have been shipped to Florida? And other red states? I read that 7k were found to have entered in McClellan, Texas in one week.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

1. As long as the right conclusion is reached, correct?

If by that you mean the correct conclusion than YES! If you view truth as a team sport where truth and error should both have an equal shot you are doing it wrong.

3 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

2. Didn't do that.  It is too early to tell whether or not the mRNA vaccines will act as advertised and questioning their effectiveness is what I hope scientists everywhere are doing and not just trusting Pfizer, et al.

It is not too early to tell. There are researchers pouring over all the data coming in. In this thread we had a story of a possible adverse reaction where the CDC flew the patient in to investigate. There is a vaccine side-effect database that is reviewed. No one is setting on their laurels. The people who are telling you this is the care are, again, LYING TO YOU.

4 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

3. Please elaborate on this because I think this goes back to not being willing to ask questions and not being skeptical of pharmaceutical company claims.  You assume that the course taken is correct when it is still up in the air and should always be.  We should always be willing to admit mistakes and be willing to correct our course of action when deemed necessary.  You assume, almost with religious fervor, that the decisions and push for all to be vaccinated by the new, untested mRNA vaccines is the only course.  What about alternative treatments?  If there are alternatives to vaccines, shouldn't we be looking at them?  Ivermectin has proven to be safe and effective. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33592050/ ; https://www.thedesertreview.com/news/national/ivermectin-obliterates-97-percent-of-delhi-cases/article_6a3be6b2-c31f-11eb-836d-2722d2325a08.html  Recently, researchers found that a cholesterol drug reduces covid by 70%.  https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-drug-sars-cov-infection-cent-reveals.html

Ivermectin HAS NOT been found to be safe and effective. The first study that was done involved made up data so of course wackjobs promoted it as yet another miracle cure. If someone has a generally effective method of preventing Covid they need to step up and share. It is not Ivermectin. Garbage like this is why you have people buying horse medicine and measuring out doses for themselves. People are going to die from this misinformation if that hasn't already started. It is amazing that you trust the web's tabloid journalists who are advising that people take snake oil to cure Covid. Sorry, not snake oil. Horse paste. I have been watching message boards explode with "experts" giving the right dosages of horse anti-worm medication people are feeding their kids. I wish we would sic CPS on these people. Poison yourselves if you must but leave your kids alone.

The coming data on statins (cholesterol medication) is interesting. It does appear to reduce the severity of Covid in those with underlying conditions such as high blood pressure and some heart conditions. There is not enough information to show it will help with someone without those conditions but it is being studied. This is just a decrease in severity and not a preventative. It won't replace the vaccine. Hopefully it will be found to assist in severe cases across the board and can be used in treatment. I wouldn't count on it though.

Some people are going to die taking the vaccine. That number is orders of magnitude lower than the number who will die if the vaccine is not used. The numbers are not even close.

Please stop trusting liars.

[Harry T. Clark]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Ivermectin HAS NOT been found to be safe and effective. The first study that was done involved made up data so of course wackjobs promoted it as yet another miracle cure. If someone has a generally effective method of preventing Covid they need to step up and share. It is not Ivermectin. Garbage like this is why you have people buying horse medicine and measuring out doses for themselves. People are going to die from this misinformation if that hasn't already started. It is amazing that you trust the web's tabloid journalists who are advising that people take snake oil to cure Covid. Sorry, not snake oil. Horse paste. I have been watching message boards explode with "experts" giving the right dosages of horse anti-worm medication people are feeding their kids. I wish we would sic CPS on these people. Poison yourselves if you must but leave your kids alone.

 

Here is a meta analysis of ivermectin studies:  https://ivmmeta.com/

Another study is underway and these scientists are taking the "horse paste" seriously.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34076901/

Real scientists would disagree with you.  But please continue to rant.  That's what this thread is for.

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I think we need to put in caps that YOU ARE NOT A DOCTOR OR SCIENTIST but act as though you are.  There are many actual scientists like Dr. Robert Malone and Dr. Michael Yeadon who give alternatives to the narrative. 

For those not aware Dr. Malone is a quack who peddles vaccine skepticism who asserted at one point he was "the inventor of mRNA vaccine" and used that credential to try to discredit the vaccine. He did not invent these vaccines nor was he involved in their development in any way. He has admitted this when pinned down on it.

Yeadon is a weird case. Initially he supported vaccine development. Then suddenly he started doing the bit about how the virus would fade away. There was similar misinformation coming from prominent sources in America. In September 2020 he declared the pandemic over. In November he said it again. He declared at one point, without evidence, that the vaccine would harm women's fertility. The man is not credible.

There is a sick irony in you making an appeal to authority and ranking me below quack doctors while ignoring the broad medical consensus. It is almost as if authority only matters to you when you think it helps.

42 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

On another note, why do you think Pfizer, et al demanded to be relieved from any liability?  These vaccines are supposedly safe and effective and according to you, the adverse effects are negligible.  So why the need to be relieved from a liability that, seemingly by definition, won't ever accrue?  Would you support eliminating the immunity from suit for these companies, given how safe and effective the vaccines are? 

WRONG! AGAIN! FALSE! BAD! LIARS!

They did not demand to be relieved of liability. Back in the 70s and 80s there was an anti-vaxx movement that started suing vaccine producers for alleged side effects that were proven to be false. These suits were all beaten but the cost of defending against these frivolous lawsuits made vaccine production fiscally unwise. Most producers stopped producing that vaccine. There was only one left and they were about to shut down. So Congress with the support of the Reagan Administration passed a law making vaccine producers immune to liability lawsuits for any unintentional side effects. The federal government set up a program in which people who suffer actionable injuries from a vaccine can be compensated for the government.

Pfizer did not request anything. It was already in place. I would not remove the liability because the conditions that led Reagan and Congress to make this change are more prevalent today. I could see mass lawsuits for every ill someone who took the vaccine experiences going forward and killing off the companies producing the vaccines. In other words the reason they are shielded from liability is that there are a lot of people like you. So, that is on you guys.

Well, let us see what ammo your puppetmasters give to you next. Maybe this time it won't all be a pack of lies.................

*chuckle* Nope, I could not keep a straight face.

Edited August 8, 2021 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

24 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

So how many unvaccinated covid-19 infected immigrants have been shipped to Florida? And other red states? I read that 7k were found to have entered in McClellan, Texas in one week.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It also wouldn't make any sense. Why ship people with Covid in? It was already here and spreading. It was also more likely to spread amongst those that were already here than amongst more insular immigrant communities. Plus any program of that size WOULD get caught. Too many people involved for a cover up to last.

Also McClellan? In Texas? The National Park?

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Here is a meta analysis of ivermectin studies:  https://ivmmeta.com/

LOL

Okay.

"Different websites (such as https://ivmmeta.com/, https://c19ivermectin.com/, https://tratamientotemprano.org/estudios-ivermectina/, among others) have conducted meta-analyses with ivermectin studies, showing unpublished colourful forest plots which rapidly gained public acknowledgement and were disseminated via social media, without following any methodological or report guidelines. These websites do not include protocol registration with methods, search strategies, inclusion criteria, quality assessment of the included studies nor the certainty of the evidence of the pooled estimates. Prospective registration of systematic reviews with or without meta-analysis protocols is a key feature for providing transparency in the review process and ensuring protection against reporting biases, by revealing differences between the methods or outcomes reported in the published review and those planned in the registered protocol. These websites show pooled estimates suggesting significant benefits with ivermectin, which has resulted in confusion for clinicians, patients and even decision-makers. This is usually a problem when performing meta-analyses which are not based in rigorous systematic reviews, often leading to spread spurious or fallacious findings."

17 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Another study is underway and these scientists are taking the "horse paste" seriously.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34076901/

There have been studies of Ivermectin's effects on Covid since at least the beginning of the year. We are testing all kinds of things. The horse paste comment is about the people taking it now. You need a prescription to get the real stuff. People are instead buying horse meds in bulk because of lying like in that "meta study" you posted. Maybe the human anti-parasitic will help in some cases. I wouldn't hold my breath. It is likely to be hydroxychloroquine all over again.

21 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Real scientists would disagree with you.  But please continue to rant.  That's what this thread is for.

I'm countering misinformation that might get people hurt or killed. You are spreading the misinformation that might get people hurt or killed.

REAL scientists would with over 90% agreement tell everyone to take the stupid vaccine! Don't pretend you are on their side.

[Ipod Touch]

"Hey Siri, why don't people trust their leaders when they tell them to wear masks?"

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9872643/No-fly-zone-set-Obamas-12M-Marthas-Vineyard-mansion-Alicia-Keys-sing-Happy-Birthday.html

Defend this, @The Nehor.  You keep telling us this is all the fault of conservatives.  You are lying.

Is it unreasonable to think that the same people who lie to us about masks, the lab-leak theory etc. would lie about the safety of a vaccine?  The answer is no.  And so I don't blame anyone for being a vaccine skeptic just like Harris and Biden were last year:

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Ipod Touch

[Harry T. Clark]

40 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

For those not aware Dr. Malone is a quack who peddles vaccine skepticism who asserted at one point he was "the inventor of mRNA vaccine" and used that credential to try to discredit the vaccine. He did not invent these vaccines nor was he involved in their development in any way. He has admitted this when pinned down on it.

Yeadon is a weird case. Initially he supported vaccine development. Then suddenly he started doing the bit about how the virus would fade away. There was similar misinformation coming from prominent sources in America. In September 2020 he declared the pandemic over. In November he said it again. He declared at one point, without evidence, that the vaccine would harm women's fertility. The man is not credible.

There is a sick irony in you making an appeal to authority and ranking me below quack doctors while ignoring the broad medical consensus. It is almost as if authority only matters to you when you think it helps.

WRONG! AGAIN! FALSE! BAD! LIARS!

They did not demand to be relieved of liability. Back in the 70s and 80s there was an anti-vaxx movement that started suing vaccine producers for alleged side effects. These suits were all beaten but the cost of defending against these frivolous lawsuits made vaccine production fiscally unwise. Most producers stopped producing that vaccine. There was only one left and they were about to shut down. So Congress with the support of the Reagan Administration passed a law making vaccine producers immune to liability lawsuits for any unintentional side effects. The federal government set up a program in which people who suffer actionable injuries from a vaccine can be compensated for the government.

Pfizer did not request anything. It was already in place. I would not remove the liability because the conditions that led Reagan and Congress to make this change are more prevalent today. I could see mass lawsuits for every ill someone who took the vaccine experiences going forward and killing off the companies producing the vaccines. In other words the reason they are shielded from liability is that there are a lot of people like you. So, that is on you guys.

Well, let us see what ammo your puppetmasters give to you next. Maybe this time it won't all be a pack of lies.................

*chuckle* Nope, I could not keep a straight face.

How is Dr. Malone a quack?  For those not aware, Nehor loves to label and name-call without evidence to back it up.  My guess is that it might lead to a discussion that may put "safe and effective" into question and that would be tantamount to murder in his mind.  FYI, Dr. Malone took the Moderna vaccine in the spring of this year.  Hardly something a supposed quack would do.

Please elaborate on how Dr. Yeadon is not credible.  He worked for Pfizer for years and is pro-vaccine, just not this one.  Maybe you can convert a misguided soul?

As for liability, there needs to be some sort of check on for profit institutions and the legal system is good for doing this.  Does anyone remember Purdue Pharma?  If you don't, they just settled with 15 states over oxycontin.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/purdue-pharma-and-states-agree-to-dollar45-billion-oxycontin-settlement/ar-AALVIkP  Seems they didn't care much for how this powerful opioid ravaged communities across the nation.  They fled to BK Court in hopes of limiting the results of their actions. 

Johson & Johnson, a vaccine maker, is settling as well.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/johnson-and-johnson-3-drug-distributors-to-settle-opioid-lawsuits-for-dollar26-billion/ar-AAMmvfA

Of course, when it comes to vaccines, just leave the victims to the vaccine court that will only give out pennies and where the government, who should be regulating, actually represents the pharmaceutical company against the victim.  https://uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Harry T. Clark

[Ipod Touch]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

No, there are not. The reactions are about on par with other vaccines. It is just that so many people are getting these vaccines at the same time that it seems there are more.

Get off your Remeumptom.  

My Aunt received the vaccine in March.  She immediately started feeling pain in the arm she received the shot.  To this day she has very limited range of motion in that arm.

Do don't sit here and tell us that the vaccinnes are just perfect, no problems.  Just fine.  People are suffering real side-effects.  I took the risk.  I figured the vaccine was less risky than me getting Covid.  But don't sit there with your disgusting imagined elitism lecturing others on what they should or should not do with their own bodies.

I'm pro-choice in every sense of the word.  You are a shameless elitist and clown.

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

"Hey Siri, why don't people trust their leaders when they tell them to wear masks?"

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9872643/No-fly-zone-set-Obamas-12M-Marthas-Vineyard-mansion-Alicia-Keys-sing-Happy-Birthday.html

Defend this, @The Nehor.  You keep telling us this is all the fault of conservatives.  You are lying.

Is it unreasonable to think that the same people who lie to us about masks, the lab-leak theory etc. would lie about the safety of a vaccine?  The answer is no.  And so I don't blame anyone for being a vaccine skeptic just like Harris and Biden were last year:

 

I agree with her statement. I even said it back then. If a vaccine came through during the Trump administration (or any for that matter) over the objections of the professionals I would not take it. That didn't happen. There were concerns it might.

As to the endless "gotcha" pics about masks we see? What does that prove? Seriously. What? That someone forgot or messed up? That someone got lazy? What does it establish other than that it must be a slow news day?