Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[Harry T. Clark]

I think Mr. Nehor either works for the Pharma industry or gets his compensation via a company connected to the Pharma industry.  Is this true Mr. Nehor?  You are very good at pushing the Pharma narrative and if you don't work for them, then perhaps you should apply in their narrative control department?

[Ipod Touch]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

As to the endless "gotcha" pics about masks we see? What does that prove? Seriously. What? That someone forgot or messed up? That someone got lazy? What does it establish other than that it must be a slow news day?

Read the article genius.  It is pics, videos etc...  But keep carrying water for the elitists.  Do what they say, not what they do.  Obama's party was not "scaled back."  And literally no one was wearing masks.  Literally no one.

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I agree with her statement. I even said it back then. If a vaccine came through during the Trump administration (or any for that matter) over the objections of the professionals I would not take it

And yet you pour constant derision on folks who distrust the vaccine now.  Thanks for allowing us to see your true colors.  You are a partisan hack and you are using this opportunity to take a dump on conservatives. 

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

How is Dr. Malone a quack?  For those not aware, Nehor loves to label and name-call without evidence to back it up.  My guess is that it might lead to a discussion that may put "safe and effective" into question and that would be tantamount to murder in his mind.  FYI, Dr. Malone took the Moderna vaccine in the spring of this year.  Hardly something a supposed quack would do.

The evidence was in the post. I don't feel the need to repeat it.

Lots of prominent anti-vaxxers got the vaccine. The propaganda against it is for the masses. Why would they risk their lives? Many of them aren't high on their own supply.

14 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Please elaborate on how Dr. Yeadon is not credible.  He worked for Pfizer for years and is pro-vaccine, just not this one.  Maybe you can convert a misguided soul?

Repeatedly claiming the pandemic is over way before it is over? I already explained that. There is more but I don't want to do a deep dive into his online ravings.

15 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

As for liability, there needs to be some sort of check on for profit institutions and the legal system is good for doing this.  Does anyone remember Purdue Pharma?  If you don't, they just settled with 15 states over oxycontin.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/purdue-pharma-and-states-agree-to-dollar45-billion-oxycontin-settlement/ar-AALVIkP  Seems they didn't care much for how this powerful opioid ravaged communities across the nation.  They fled to BK Court in hopes of limiting the results of their actions. 

Johson & Johnson, a vaccine maker, is settling as well.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/johnson-and-johnson-3-drug-distributors-to-settle-opioid-lawsuits-for-dollar26-billion/ar-AAMmvfA

Of course, when it comes to vaccines, just leave the victims to the vaccine court that will only give out pennies and where the government, who should be regulating, actually represents the pharmaceutical company against the victim.  https://uscfc.uscourts.gov/vaccine-programoffice-special-masters

Take it up with Reagan and Congress from the 80s. Or take it up with the anti-vaxxers that made it necessary with their pointless lawsuits that wasted time, money, and resources to the point it was necessary. It is also worth noting that the suits back then had no merit and the claims about vaccine side-effects were all false.

All I said was that Pfizer did not set it up. It is the way it is for a reason. I didn't argue the law was good. I just pointed out that you were wrong and were either deceived or were lying when you said Pfizer demanded this immunity. That is still true. Somehow the goal posts suddenly sprinted down the field.

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Do don't sit here and tell us that the vaccinnes are just perfect, no problems. 

CFR that I said this. I have repeatedly acknowledged that there are side-effects and even fatalities.

Goal posts are off yet again running down the field.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I think Mr. Nehor either works for the Pharma industry or gets his compensation via a company connected to the Pharma industry.  Is this true Mr. Nehor?  You are very good at pushing the Pharma narrative and if you don't work for them, then perhaps you should apply in their narrative control department?

I have called for nationalizing the most flagrantly cost-raising pharma companies as an example to the rest. I despise many of their practices. I despise the movement you are parroting even more. I almost wrote in a previous post that I felt like I needed a shower after potentially making pharma companies look good. Then I realized it was in comparison to anti-vaxxers and realized it is true.

5 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

Read the article genius.  It is pics, videos etc...  But keep carrying water for the elitists.  Do what they say, not what they do.  Obama's party was not "scaled back."  And literally no one was wearing masks.  Literally no one.

And therefore.....what? Does this change the science? Reveal some flaw in pandemic strategy?

No. It means some people are not following guidelines they support. It doesn't discredit vaccines. All it does is prove that politicians are not always sincere. 

REALLY????? STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!

I am not defending Democrats. I am defending the vaccine.

7 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

And yet you pour constant derision on folks who distrust the vaccine now.  Thanks for allowing us to see your true colors.  You are a partisan hack and you are using this opportunity to take a dump on conservatives. 

I do. I think that a vaccine that was pushed through for political purposes to have it show up before an election to score political points would be dangerous if pushed through without professionals saying the testing is complete. The testing was completed and the vaccine came out. I do pour derision because the excuses being pandered by the anti-vaxxers are lunacy. The concern I had was plausible and realistic and was a worry that the actual data would not be followed. The current anti-vaxxers rely on pseudoscience and ignore the real data. There is no equivalency between the positions. Plausible doubts are not the same as believing implausible conspiracies and mass suppression.

You assume I am a partisan hack yet somehow you jump to thinking Democrats acting like fools will be something that I feel obligated to defend. I do not. I am defending the vaccine because I want this pandemic to end.

Anyone reading this. Please don't be swayed by these bozos repeating stories planted by fools and Russian bots. Get vaccinated. Choose life. Lost someone else I care about today.

[strappinglad]

" My link/study can beat up your link/study so there ... nyah,nyah " 

Anybody remember the consensus around ' thalidomide ' ? If you think long covid has bad side effects...

Until there are effective treatments for covid variants , this will be an uphill battle. 

In my area the health leader has decided that human resources are better used in hospitals rather than chasing contacts and testing asymptomatics. We will soon see.  

[Harry T. Clark]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The evidence was in the post. I don't feel the need to repeat it.

Lots of prominent anti-vaxxers got the vaccine. The propaganda against it is for the masses. Why would they risk their lives? Many of them aren't high on their own supply.

Repeatedly claiming the pandemic is over way before it is over? I already explained that. There is more but I don't want to do a deep dive into his online ravings.

Take it up with Reagan and Congress from the 80s. Or take it up with the anti-vaxxers that made it necessary with their pointless lawsuits that wasted time, money, and resources to the point it was necessary. It is also worth noting that the suits back then had no merit and the claims about vaccine side-effects were all false.

All I said was that Pfizer did not set it up. It is the way it is for a reason. I didn't argue the law was good. I just pointed out that you were wrong and were either deceived or were lying when you said Pfizer demanded this immunity. That is still true. Somehow the goal posts suddenly sprinted down the field.

1. Every suit had no merit and the claims about vaccine side-effects were all false?  How do you know that?  Come on, you work for Pharma directly or get your pay from someone related to them.

2. You really don't think that Pfizer, et al didn't lobby the Trump Admin to make the declaration under the Prep Act?  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-08040/amendment-to-declaration-under-the-public-readiness-and-emergency-preparedness-act-for-medical

3. Incidentally, what to do you make of the PCR test change?  It seems the PCR test couldn't distinguish between Sars-Cov-2 and the Flu.  https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

I love this quote from the Lab Alert: "CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season."

So, does this mean that the sars-cov-2 numbers last year were exaggerated and that the flu never left last year as claimed?  I wonder how many flu cases were mislabeled?  How many deaths were really flu deaths?

[Ipod Touch]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I do. I think that a vaccine that was pushed through for political purposes to have it show up before an election to score political points would be dangerous if pushed through without professionals saying the testing is complete.

Do you remember how Pfizer announced the vaccine the day after the election.  I do.  November 9th.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against

Don't talk to me about politicizing the vaccine.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Ipod Touch

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

1. Every suit had no merit and the claims about vaccine side-effects were all false?  How do you know that?  Come on, you work for Pharma directly or get your pay from someone related to them.

All the suits where there was no real connection with the vaccine i.e. based on the pseudoscience. Yeah, they pay me to come to an obscure Mormon board to win over a few dozen people. I make six figures and get a company car.

4 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

2. You really don't think that Pfizer, et al didn't lobby the Trump Admin to make the declaration under the Prep Act?  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-08040/amendment-to-declaration-under-the-public-readiness-and-emergency-preparedness-act-for-medical

The vaccines were always covered and it was just reiterated. The main purpose of that change is it shields from liability any treatment method used against Covid. So there would be more reason for the people who make hydrochloroquine and Ivermectin to be lobbying for it. It was designed to make sure we could use medication to experiment in fighting Covid without huge liability concerns.

7 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

3. Incidentally, what to do you make of the PCR test change?  It seems the PCR test couldn't distinguish between Sars-Cov-2 and the Flu.  https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

I love this quote from the Lab Alert: "CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season."

So you have given up on the vaccine and instead want to fight over test methods? I am not interested.

8 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

So, does this mean that the sars-cov-2 numbers last year were exaggerated and that the flu never left last year as claimed?  I wonder how many flu cases were mislabeled?  How many deaths were really flu deaths?

Go figure it out and then we can discuss it. I am not interested in answering your leading questions that have nothing to do with the vaccine. If you don't know what is there to discuss?

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It also wouldn't make any sense. Why ship people with Covid in? It was already here and spreading. It was also more likely to spread amongst those that were already here than amongst more insular immigrant communities. Plus any program of that size WOULD get caught. Too many people involved for a cover up to last.

Also McClellan? In Texas? The National Park?

Sorry. Wrong town, it's McAllen. It's in Yahoo news. I can't post a link without firing up the laptop. Google it.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Ipod Touch said:

Do you remember how Pfizer announced the vaccine the day after the election.  I do.  November 9th.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against

Don't talk to me about politicizing the vaccine.

Don't care. Maybe the people at Pfizer hate Trump? I don't blame them. After all, they had to meet with him. Don't care. If they included that he was the "smartest and bestest president ever" in the announcement I wouldn't care. The vaccine works and it saves lives. That is the message I care about. The date it was announced has no bearing on whether the vaccine works and it being announced on that date is not evidence that it does not work.

You keep bringing in non-vaccine gripes. It suggests they are all one glorious parts of some interconnected cause to you. They are really not. I would suggest you separate them.

Edited August 8, 2021 by The Nehor

[Harry T. Clark]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So you have given up on the vaccine and instead want to fight over test methods? I am not interested.

Go figure it out and then we can discuss it. I am not interested in answering your leading questions that have nothing to do with the vaccine. If you don't know what is there to discuss?

I haven't given up on talking about the vaccine.  There can't be more than one topic?  Also, the change in testing methods directly affects the vaccine push as perhaps the severity of the crisis was exaggerated that led us to pushing a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission and only lessens symptoms and causes deaths.  However, I get why you wouldn't want to discuss it.

Weren't you a contact tracer or was that Nurse Pogi?  Also, just answer yes or no to the questions regarding your employment.  Do you work for the Pharma industry?  Do you receive income from any person or entity that is related in any manner to the Pharma industry or receives anything of value from the Pharma industry?  I ask this because you seem too well versed in the narrative that big Pharma is pushing and everyone here deserves to know if you are compromised or if you just are a volunteer for your team.

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Harry T. Clark said:

FYI, Dr. Malone took the Moderna vaccine in the spring of this year.  Hardly something a supposed quack would do.

So he protects himself. That would be exactly something I would expect a quack to do, not wanting to take risks themselves.
 

Just commenting on that one point. It doesn’t prove he is a quack. 

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Sorry. Wrong town, it's McAllen. It's in Yahoo news. I can't post a link without firing up the laptop. Google it.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-border-town-struggles-under-101200363.html

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Lost someone else I care about today.

This is crushing. So sorry. 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

was that Nurse Pogi?  Also, just answer yes or no to the questions regarding your employment.

My thread, so I get to some extent decide the limits.

Pogi has shared he is the contact tracer. 
 

Pretty sure this would qualify as harassment by general board rules, no one is required to share personal information. 
 

Still just in case more is needed, me as thread starter, I am providing it:  STOP THIS IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT CONTINUE TO IMPLY THAT ANYONE HERE IS GETTING FINANCIAL BENEFITS FROM LYING AND RISKING PEOPLE’S LIVES AND QUALITY OF LIFE WHATEVER POSITION THEY HOLD.  I FIND THIS ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE BEHAVIOUR ON YOUR PART AND IF IT CONTINUES, I WILL DO MY BEST TO GET YOU BANNED FROM THE BOARD…not that I have that power, but my persistence and time available to try is significant. 

[Peacefully]

 

1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

Read the article genius.  It is pics, videos etc...  But keep carrying water for the elitists.  Do what they say, not what they do.  Obama's party was not "scaled back."  And literally no one was wearing masks.  Literally no one.

And yet you pour constant derision on folks who distrust the vaccine now.  Thanks for allowing us to see your true colors.  You are a partisan hack and you are using this opportunity to take a dump on conservatives. 

Please stop making this political and taking personal jabs at people. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Peacefully

[Harry T. Clark]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

So he protects himself. That would be exactly something I would expect a quack to do, not wanting to take risks themselves.
 

Just commenting on that one point. It doesn’t prove he is a quack. 

How do we define what is a quack?  Is it just someone who disagrees with the preferred narrative?  It cannot be just that.  Is it someone who uses "snake oil" as a cure when obviously "snake oil" doesn't cure anything?  Yes.  However, how do we define someone like Dr. Malone, a PhD with a medical degree, a person who worked at the prestigious Salk Institute.  Yes, he pushes back on the narrative so he is a quack?  Don't we as a society want smart people disagreeing with the narrative so that science progresses? 

Anyway, perhaps this has something to do with it?  https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/

It turns out that the spike protein itself damages cells and causes disease.  Yet, the mRNA vaccines cause cells to produce the spike protein in abundance.  Is this a nothing burger or is there more to this as in did we make a mistake in having the spike protein be the basis of the vaccines?  Should we have gone the normal route and used attenuated virus vaccines given how exposure to sars-cov-2 creates long lasting immunity?

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I haven't given up on talking about the vaccine.  There can't be more than one topic?  Also, the change in testing methods directly affects the vaccine push as perhaps the severity of the crisis was exaggerated that led us to pushing a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission and only lessens symptoms and causes deaths. 

Are more vaccinated areas, generally speaking, doing better than non-vaccinated areas in the latest spikes? Yes, they are. Vaccine is working. The testing is not relevant and your theory would fall apart on examination but I have not been following the various testing methods closely enough to point out why.

16 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

However, I get why you wouldn't want to discuss it.

Nice insinuation there. Very subtle.

17 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Weren't you a contact tracer or was that Nurse Pogi?

No, I was not.

17 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Also, just answer yes or no to the questions regarding your employment.  Do you work for the Pharma industry?  Do you receive income from any person or entity that is related in any manner to the Pharma industry or receives anything of value from the Pharma industry?

I do not work for a pharmaceuticals company. I am currently unemployed and am doing contract work. Not of that contract work is for the pharmaceuticals company. I got a free sample of some medication from my doctor a few times but I couldn't tell you what company makes that medication. 

19 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I ask this because you seem too well versed in the narrative that big Pharma is pushing and everyone here deserves to know if you are compromised or if you just are a volunteer for your team.

It is a team thing now? I am not on the side of pharma. I hate the state of the pharmaceuticals industry. They jack up prices, they are responsible for the opioid crisis, and they have been just gorging themselves on price hikes that exceed inflation for years. They lie and claim that they need the money for R&D ignoring that most of the R&D for their medication piggybacks on government funded science and private R&D firms. They pay pennies on the dollar to get what they need and then they rebrand and launch medication. They focus on palliatives at the expense of cures because the former are more profitable. What is the last major disease we found a cure for? Everything is just a treatment now. It is because that is what they are looking for. They feed opiates into communities and eat fines for bad behavior that come nowhere near the profits made on the violations. I say we nationalize the worst offenders to scare the others and if that does not work nationalize the entire industry. Taxpayer dollars are funding their research anyways. The government might as well get the patents too.

Since this is a team game now has Covid bribed you to help it wipe out more of humanity? Do you belong to the death cult that is doing everything they can to prevent any measures to mitigate the spread of Covid? Have you received any gifts from anyone in this death cult? I ask this because you seem to know all the fallacious death cult propaganda and everyone here deserves to know if you are an actual death cultist or are just a more casual covid fan.

[Harry T. Clark]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

My thread, so I get to some extent decide the limits.

Pogi has shared he is the contact tracer. 
 

Pretty sure this would qualify as harassment by general board rules, no one is required to share personal information. 
 

Still just in case more is needed, me as thread starter, I am providing it:  STOP THIS IMMEDIATELY. DO NOT CONTINUE TO IMPLY THAT ANYONE HERE IS GETTING FINANCIAL BENEFITS FROM LYING AND RISKING PEOPLE’S LIVES AND QUALITY OF LIFE WHATEVER POSITION THEY HOLD.  I FIND THIS ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE BEHAVIOUR ON YOUR PART AND IF IT CONTINUES, I WILL DO MY BEST TO GET YOU BANNED FROM THE BOARD…not that I have that power, but my persistence and time available to try is significant. 

I know you want to find a reason to ban me from this thread.  You are inventing something that did not happen.  Merely asking if someone works for the Pharma industry doesn't imply that they support risking people's lives, unless you think that this is what Pharma does.  However, before you ban me, please look at what Mr. Nehor has said about me.  He repeatedly implied that I support death because I question his narrative and yours.  Obviously that is fine with you.  However, this is simply projecting on your part.

Now you can ban me as you probably don't want to hear anything other than what your echo chamber delivers.

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

How do we define what is a quack?  Is it just someone who disagrees with the preferred narrative?  It cannot be just that.  Is it someone who uses "snake oil" as a cure when obviously "snake oil" doesn't cure anything?  Yes.  However, how do we define someone like Dr. Malone, a PhD with a medical degree, a person who worked at the prestigious Salk Institute.  Yes, he pushes back on the narrative so he is a quack?  Don't we as a society want smart people disagreeing with the narrative so that science progresses? 

Do you have answers to any of those questions. Nothing to discuss here.

6 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

Anyway, perhaps this has something to do with it?  https://www.salk.edu/news-release/the-novel-coronavirus-spike-protein-plays-additional-key-role-in-illness/

It turns out that the spike protein itself damages cells and causes disease.  Yet, the mRNA vaccines cause cells to produce the spike protein in abundance.  Is this a nothing burger or is there more to this as in did we make a mistake in having the spike protein be the basis of the vaccines?  Should we have gone the normal route and used attenuated virus vaccines given how exposure to sars-cov-2 creates long lasting immunity?

Do you know who else talks only in questions like this?

Is it possible that ancient aliens helped the Egyptians build the pyramids?

It is a rhetorical technique that implies it is likely but when called out on the person can do the "just asking questions" bit. In other words it is cowardly. You aren't taking any stands. Just insinuating. Why do you lack confidence in what you are saying?

[rodheadlee]

So with the CDC extending the moratorium on rental evictions against the ruling of the Supreme Court is the Constitution hanging by a thread now? Please no politics just a legal discussion.

[BlueDreams]

2 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

So with the CDC extending the moratorium on rental evictions against the ruling of the Supreme Court is the Constitution hanging by a thread now? Please no politics just a legal discussion.

They're assuming there's a more limited focus that may allow it to occur and fit in the parameters to SC set. So no. 

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, it isn't.

No, there are not. The reactions are about on par with other vaccines. It is just that so many people are getting these vaccines at the same time that it seems there are more.

WRONG! FALSE! ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE! It usually takes about ten years to create a new vaccine but that includes time spent researching the disease, how it works, and how it spreads. Then you develop the vaccine. No one was injected at the beginning of the ten year process with a vaccine that is approved at the end. Once the vaccine is developed and some animal safety testing (usually) is done you start with phase 1, 2, and 3 testing. You know, like we did. This is what happened. The early parts of the process were accelerated due to the whole thing being a pandemic and not a fringe disease that it would be nice to have a vaccine for.

So again, completely WRONG!

Your premises are false so your conclusion is false.

Live with it. There is a very very very very (huge orders of magnitude) small chance that the vaccine might kill everyone in 20 years or something. On the other hand we are saving a lot of lives now and there is not a small chance of that. It is working. People who receive the vaccine are not dying. People of all ages who would have experienced long term side effects of surviving Covid that might have lasted the rest of their lives are not having to deal with a decrease in physical and mental ability.

So are you going to go back to the liars who were feeding you this tripe and tell them off? Or at least vow never to listen to or trust them again? Or will you continue to abase yourself before them and parrot their talking points in the hopes next time they won't be so completely wrong? More importantly are you okay with the idea that people who listen to and trust you may suffer or die because they did so?

Good thing we didn't have his attitude when the polio vaccine was created.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Harry T. Clark said:

I know you want to find a reason to ban me from this thread.  You are inventing something that did not happen.  Merely asking if someone works for the Pharma industry doesn't imply that they support risking people's lives, unless you think that this is what Pharma does.  However, before you ban me, please look at what Mr. Nehor has said about me.  He repeatedly implied that I support death because I question his narrative and yours.  Obviously that is fine with you.  However, this is simply projecting on your part.

Now you can ban me as you probably don't want to hear anything other than what your echo chamber delivers.

Allow me to clarify. I am not implying. I am saying that your rhetoric will, if believed, increase the number of deaths in this pandemic. This isn't just a rhetorical game. It is not an intellectual exercise or a forum to win a few political points. It doesn't matter if people going one way or the other will hurt Trump's feelings or Biden's feelings. It has real irrevocable consequences. People will either live or die based on the decisions they make.