Covid III: Delta Force

[Peacefully]

17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Too personal.

I guess I’m not understanding. What is too personal?

[Hamba Tuhan]

The next few months here are going to be interesting Church-wise IMO. Saturday, the Elders asked if I could find a lift to sacrament meeting for a couple of less-active members (adult siblings) whom they have been working with. I then asked the bishopric for a list of people who were attending in person (we're currently limited to 25 in the congregation) and started ringing those who live near those seeking a lift. Question from every member I rang: Are they vaccinated?

I didn't know, nor did I want to ask. (Too personal!) I asked the Elders if they felt comfortable asking, and they said yes. No response. No lift.

We reached 89.3 per cent of our population age 12 and up fully vaccinated this morning. Businesses are touting fully vaccinated workforces. People who are doing the right things just aren't willing to intentionally expose themselves as 'close contacts' to those who aren't ... and it appears this includes all kinds of Church members as well.

I don't blame them. In fact, I feel the same way. But it's an awkward space to be in in a Church context.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

I wish in places where they had many Saints, they could for a time have optional first meeting of the day Sacrament Meetings of all vaccinated over age 12, wearing masks indoors, no singing and then last meeting of the day congregations for those who do not intent to be vaccinated and refuse to wear masks with the rest being wearing masks indoor, no singing, don’t care if vaccinated or not.

And then have other meetings by zoom…but logistics would be a nightmare I am guessing.

[Hamba Tuhan]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

I wish in places where they had many Saints, they could for a time have optional first meeting of the day Sacrament Meetings of all vaccinated over age 12, wearing masks indoors, no singing and then last meeting of the day congregations for those who do not intent to be vaccinated and refuse to wear masks with the rest being wearing masks indoor, no singing, don’t care if vaccinated or not.

This reminds me of an Anglican priest I met as a missionary. She boasted to my companion and me that she held three services each Sunday: one for people who were die-hard believers, one for those who were more 'progressive' but unoffended by an occasional reference to the Bible, and one that skipped scripture altogether and just focussed on pure 'social justice'.

I'm not sure we want to go that route ...

[The Nehor]

44 minutes ago, Calm said:

I wish in places where they had many Saints, they could for a time have optional first meeting of the day Sacrament Meetings of all vaccinated over age 12, wearing masks indoors, no singing and then last meeting of the day congregations for those who do not intent to be vaccinated and refuse to wear masks with the rest being wearing masks indoor, no singing, don’t care if vaccinated or not.

And then have other meetings by zoom…but logistics would be a nightmare I am guessing.

Yeah. The question of who is in charge of the meeting would hit and if all the bishops and the their counselors are vaccinated……..

[Tacenda]

15 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I guess I’m not understanding. What is too personal?

I thought this was a topic that should leave personal stories out concerning covid. I just mentioned that I was exposed recently when my son got a high fever and we were on vacation together as a family, and he let me know yesterday that he tested positive. So I reached out to find out what I, a vaccinated person, should do to isolate and how long etc. 

[Tacenda]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

Tacenda, asking for advice on personal situations dealing with Covid is very appropriate for this thread. I started these for that reason, to help people make the personal decisions. 

Great, I just replied to Peacefully. Thanks, I thought this was for stats etc. and didn't want to take the thread down another road. Good to know, thanks again Calm!

Edited October 26, 2021 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

15 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Guidelines if you live in Utah.

Read the entire page, but the following may answer your questions:

 

Awesome! You saw my post before I deleted. Appreciate the info. I had looked up things before but it felt like it was info that I'd see at the start of the pandemic and was wondering if there is more updated information. I'll look over the link you provided Hamba, thank you. 

[bsjkki]

 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Great, I just replied to Peacefully. Thanks, I thought this was for stats etc. and didn't want to take the thread down another road. Good to know, thanks again Calm!

The stats and medical info is meant to help people make the best decisions for keeping themselves and their loved ones safe.

[bsjkki]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/1-in-4-hospitalized-covid-patients-who-lack-vitamin-d-die-israeli-study/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

 

[Calm]

I really need to take my vit d supplement, but it has the weird side effect of making me depressed rather than the reverse which is what it is supposed to do, vit bs make me anxious…again the reverse for why they were recommended.

[bsjkki]

 

[Peacefully]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I thought this was a topic that should leave personal stories out concerning covid. I just mentioned that I was exposed recently when my son got a high fever and we were on vacation together as a family, and he let me know yesterday that he tested positive. So I reached out to find out what I, a vaccinated person, should do to isolate and how long etc. 

Ok, I misunderstood and thought you were saying someone’s post was too personal. Never mind me, lol!

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Ok, I misunderstood and thought you were saying someone’s post was too personal. Never mind me, lol!

I don't explain good, it's not you, lol!

[Robert J Anderson]

19 hours ago, bsjkki said:

 

The rush to push these vaccines really bothers me.  Why would someone want to subject their kids to this experiment is hard to believe, unless that person isn't really looking into all the facts.  "We're never gonna learn about how safe the vaccine is until we start giving it."  Really?  That's the attitude of the regulators that are supposed to be protecting us and our children?  We were told initially that the vaccines would stop the spread and I got vaccinated to do my part.  Now, it slowly came out that it doesn't do well against Delta and that we will need a booster and probably an endless stream of boosters.  It's hard to discount an economic motive in all this.

I'm not going to have my children vaccinated for this.  Maybe in the future when more data come out, but not now.  Covid isn't a danger to them and the benefits of lowering their extremely small risk of death or complications from covid just isn't worth the unknown risks of the vaccine.

[ksfisher]

18 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

I'm not going to have my children vaccinated for this.  Maybe in the future when more data come out, but not now.  Covid isn't a danger to them and the benefits of lowering their extremely small risk of death or complications from covid just isn't worth the unknown risks of the vaccine.

We've had three families at church with COVID recently.  All believe they caught it from unvaccinated, asymptomatic children who likely picked up the virus at school. 

It's not always about whether it is a danger to you, but is it a danger to someone you could spread it to.

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said:

The rush to push these vaccines really bothers me.  Why would someone want to subject their kids to this experiment is hard to believe, unless that person isn't really looking into all the facts.  "We're never gonna learn about how safe the vaccine is until we start giving it."  Really?  That's the attitude of the regulators that are supposed to be protecting us and our children?  We were told initially that the vaccines would stop the spread and I got vaccinated to do my part.  Now, it slowly came out that it doesn't do well against Delta and that we will need a booster and probably an endless stream of boosters.  It's hard to discount an economic motive in all this.

I'm not going to have my children vaccinated for this.  Maybe in the future when more data come out, but not now.  Covid isn't a danger to them and the benefits of lowering their extremely small risk of death or complications from covid just isn't worth the unknown risks of the vaccine.

I can understand why someone might want to wait to vaccinate their child until it is further studied in that age group and FDA approved.  It is indeed an investigational medicine at this point.  Anyone who wants the vaccine for their child knows that and will have to sign for it.  That is not to say that it hasn't been studied in this age group and shown to be highly effective, and it is not to say that the benefits outweigh the risks based on the evidence we have.  It is important to understand that even after thorough and rigorous study required for FDA and CDC approval, no vaccine can be guaranteed to be without unknown risks.   The risks associated with Yellow Fever vaccine over the age of 60  were not known for years after it was approved and being used in the general public.  The same is true for a rotavirus vaccine for children - it went through full and rigorous large scale studies and received approval by FDA and CDC (not just EUA), and it was later discovered through VAERS that it rarely caused severe intestinal blockage and was removed from the market. 

There is nothing sinister or evil about getting a vaccine on the market before we know the larger picture of risk in the public.  There simply is no other way around it.  These processes reduce risk, but we never truly know what it is until it hits the market.  So, lets not take that comment to mean something it doesn't.  That comment is true for EVERY vaccine that has ever existed.  Yes, there is some inherent risk in accepting and receiving a brand new vaccine (even more so if it only has EUA approval).  While the risk of this disease is not as severe in children, there have been hundreds of deaths and thousands of hospitalizations in children and many cases of myocarditis and long-covid.   The greatest known risk with this vaccine is myocarditis in children.  We know that younger kids are at lower risk for that reaction in general, and that is shown to be true with this covid vaccines too.  The greatest risk is in the 18-24 year old age group, not younger kids.   The dose is also much lower than for adults. 

There are many parents anxiously waiting to vaccinate their children.  So, let me appeal to your sense of liberty for you liberty loving people out there who are decrying the EUA approved use of this vaccine and who generally disapprove of government agencies getting involved in anything.  Isn't giving the option to parents to assess their own risk tolerance levels (everyone is different) and allow them to make their own decision for their children - isn't that creating more liberty, not less?  It wasn't long ago that many on here were screaming "down with the FDA"  Down with the "CDC".  Now they are saying, "more regulations, more government oversight, not less".  You can't have it both ways.  (This comment is not directed at you specifically Robert)

I don't think it is being "pushed" on anyone.  If an investigational EUA vaccine is mandated for children in schools, I will be the first one to be picketing against it.  This gives parents the freedom to determine their own risk tolerance level and make their own decisions for their family.  Isn't that what any lover of liberty would want for families - less government oversight/intervention  and more freedom/liberty to choose what is best for your own family?  

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by pogi

[Peacefully]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't explain good, it's not you, lol!

Lol:)

[bsjkki]

38 minutes ago, pogi said:

I can understand why someone might want to wait to vaccinate their child until it is further studied in that age group and FDA approved.  It is indeed an investigational medicine at this point.  Anyone who wants the vaccine for their child knows that and will have to sign for it.  That is not to say that it hasn't been studied in this age group and shown to be highly effective, and it is not to say that the benefits outweigh the risks based on the evidence we have.  It is important to understand that even after thorough and rigorous study required for FDA and CDC approval, no vaccine can be guaranteed to be without unknown risks.   The risks associated with Yellow Fever vaccine over the age of 60  were not known for years after it was approved and being used in the general public.  The same is true for a rotavirus vaccine for children - it went through full and rigorous large scale studies and received approval by FDA and CDC (not just EUA), and it was later discovered through VAERS that it rarely caused severe intestinal blockage and was removed from the market. 

There is nothing sinister or evil about getting a vaccine on the market before we know the larger picture of risk in the public.  There simply is no other way around it.  These processes reduce risk, but we never truly know what it is until it hits the market.  So, lets not take that comment to mean something it doesn't.  That comment is true for EVERY vaccine that has ever existed.  Yes, there is some inherent risk in accepting and receiving a brand new vaccine (even more so if it only has EUA approval).  While the risk of this disease is not as severe in children, there have been hundreds of deaths and thousands of hospitalizations in children and many cases of myocarditis and long-covid.   The greatest known risk with this vaccine is myocarditis in children.  We know that younger kids are at lower risk for that reaction in general, and that is shown to be true with this covid vaccines too.  The greatest risk is in the 18-24 year old age group, not younger kids.   The dose is also much lower than for adults. 

There are many parents anxiously waiting to vaccinate their children.  So, let me appeal to your sense of liberty for you liberty loving people out there who are decrying the EUA approved use of this vaccine and who generally disapprove of government agencies getting involved in anything.  Isn't giving the option to parents to assess their own risk tolerance levels (everyone is different) and allow them to make their own decision for their children - isn't that creating more liberty, not less?  It wasn't long ago that many on here were screaming "down with the FDA"  Down with the "CDC".  Now they are saying, "more regulations, more government oversight, not less".  You can't have it both ways.  (This comment is not directed at you specifically Robert)

I don't think it is being "pushed" on anyone.  If an investigational EUA vaccine is mandated for children in schools, I will be the first one to be picketing against it.  This gives parents the freedom to determine their own risk tolerance level and make their own decisions for their family.  Isn't that what any lover of liberty would want for families - less government oversight/intervention  and more freedom/liberty to choose what is best for your own family?  

 

The fear is they will mandate it. I agree completely parents should be able to make this choice for their kids.  Adults too. 

[pogi]

43 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

The fear is they will mandate it. I agree completely parents should be able to make this choice for their kids.  Adults too. 

I don't think it would hold up in courts with EUA approval only.  I don't see how any school or government could get away with mandating an investigational medicine on any population, let alone one that is relatively low risk.  

Once it has full FDA approval, I fully anticipate and expect it to be mandated in schools.  If Hep A is mandated for schools (kids are almost entirely asymptomatic and only have very mild symptoms if they do present), they dang well better mandate Covid.  

[bsjkki]

 

[Robert J Anderson]

6 hours ago, ksfisher said:

We've had three families at church with COVID recently.  All believe they caught it from unvaccinated, asymptomatic children who likely picked up the virus at school. 

It's not always about whether it is a danger to you, but is it a danger to someone you could spread it to.

It's almost impossible to prove where you get a cold or covid, regardless of belief.  Also, I as a vaccinated person can just as easily spread the virus as anyone.  The vaccines were never meant to stop the spread, just keep a higher percentage out of the hospital, something children don't face.

[Hamba Tuhan]

35 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said:

I as a vaccinated person can just as easily spread the virus as anyone.

Only if you become infected, and as the data above from the Oregon Health Authority make very clear, the worst performing vaccine in America is helping prevent infection in 98.2 per cent of recipients.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said:

just keep a higher percentage out of the hospital, something children don't face.

Are you saying here that children aren't being hospitalized because of COVID?