Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted October 28, 2021 Popular Post Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, ksfisher said: Are you saying here that children aren't being hospitalized because of COVID? In my nation, the only data I can find relating to this matter cover 1 January through 31 August this year. During that period, children (age 0 to 19) comprised 23.8 per cent of all diagnosed Covid cases. During that same period, children comprised 5.58 per cent of all Covid-related hospitalisations but only 3.42 per cent of all Covid-related admissions to ICU. The hospitalisation rate for those 0 to 9 is slightly lower than for those 10 to 19, and none of the younger cohort was admitted to ICU. So whilst children are certainly hospitalised at much lower rates, it definitely happens. Edited October 28, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 6
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: Are you saying here that children aren't being hospitalized because of COVID? There aren't that many as far as I have seen. Do you have any statistics that can be verified regarding hospitalization of children because of covid?
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 29 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: In my nation, the only data I can find relating to this matter covers 1 January through 31 August this year. During that period, children (age 0 to 19) comprised 23.8 per cent of all diagnosed Covid cases. During that same period, children comprised 5.58 per cent of all Covid-related hospitalisations but only 3.42 per cent of all Covid-related admissions to ICU. The hospitalisation rate for those 0 to 9 is slightly lower than for those 10 to 19, and none of the younger cohort was admitted to ICU. So whilst children are certainly hospitalised at much lower rates, it definitely happens. Isn't this a disease of the older generation? -1
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said: There aren't that many as far as I have seen. Do you have any statistics that can be verified regarding hospitalization of children because of covid? Did you see my post right above this one? Those are statistics from my nation, and they clearly show that, in the first eight months of this year, 1 out of every 18 people hospitalised for Covid here was under the age of 20. 27 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said: Isn't this a disease of the older generation? Not exclusively, no. Did you just choose to ignore the data I have presented when you asked this question??? Where I live, the highest number of confirmed cases has been in the 20 to 29 cohort, the second highest has been in the 30 to 39 cohort, and the third highest has been in the 10 to 19 cohort. Deaths have been clustered heavily amongst those age 70 and over. Anecdotally, I just got a text from a sister in my ward. She and four of her five children were diagnosed with Covid about three weeks ago. They're all recovered except for the eldest son, who has now been admitted to ICU. He would be in his late 30s or early 40s. Edited October 28, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 3
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 36 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Did you see my post right above this one? Those are statistics from my nation, and they clearly show that, in the first eight months of this year, 1 out of every 18 people hospitalised for Covid here was under the age of 20. Not exclusively, no. Did you just choose to ignore the data I have presented when you asked this question??? Where I live, the highest number of confirmed cases has been in the 20 to 29 cohort, the second highest has been in the 30 to 39 cohort, and the third highest has been in the 10 to 19 cohort. Deaths have been clustered heavily amongst those age 70 and over. Anecdotally, I just got a text from a sister in my ward. She and four of her five children were diagnosed with Covid about three weeks ago. They're all recovered except for the eldest son, who has now been admitted to ICU. He would be in his late 30s or early 40s. Here are the stats from your government. Perhaps I am wrong but the chart shows the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations are among the elderly as has been common throughout the pandemic. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals -1
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said: Here are the stats from your government. Perhaps I am wrong but the chart shows the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations are among the elderly as has been common throughout the pandemic. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/hospitals a) That's not my government. Interesting bit from the link you provided, however: 'Hospital admissions are now 74% higher for those aged 5 to 14 years than in January 2021'. b) Yes, the majority of hospitalisations has been amongst the elderly, but 1 out of 18 Covid-related hospitalisations being children is nothing to be sniffed at. Here, between 1 January 2021 and 31 August 2021, more children age 0 to 9 were hospitalised from Covid than were people age 90+. The number of children age 0-19 who were hospitalised was 61 per cent of the number of people age 80+ who were hospitalised. Edited October 28, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan 2
Calm Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 The US has had around 700 children die of Covid, I haven’t been able to find numbers for hospitalization, just rates. https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/ 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Calm said: The US has had around 700 children die of Covid, I haven’t been able to find numbers for hospitalization, just rates. From your CDC: Quote This analysis uses Coronavirus Disease 2019–Associated Hospitalization Surveillance Network (COVID-NET) data to describe COVID-19–associated hospitalizations among U.S. children and adolescents aged 0–17 years. During March 1, 2020–August 14, 2021, the cumulative incidence of COVID-19–associated hospitalizations was 49.7 per 100,000 children and adolescents. The weekly COVID-19–associated hospitalization rate per 100,000 children and adolescents during the week ending August 14, 2021 (1.4) was nearly five times the rate during the week ending June 26, 2021 (0.3); among children aged 0–4 years, the weekly hospitalization rate during the week ending August 14, 2021, was nearly 10 times that during the week ending June 26, 2021. During June 20–July 31, 2021, the hospitalization rate among unvaccinated adolescents (aged 12–17 years) was 10.1 times higher than that among fully vaccinated adolescents. 2
bsjkki Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/95284
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 11 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said: Isn't this a disease of the older generation? Not any more. They are all vaccinated. I just read this in the news this morning. It is one of the saddest cases I have heard. Unfortunately, these types of cases are not rare enough and are happening all over the country, and world: Quote Just two weeks after testing positive for COVID-19, Marcus Rittmanic, 28, lost his battle with the virus in the ICU. SALT LAKE CITY — Just two weeks after testing positive for COVID-19, Marcus Rittmanic, 28, lost his battle with the virus in the ICU. His wife, Ashlyn, said he developed pneumonia and his breathing was so labored she took him to the hospital within a week of contracting the virus. "He had a couple up-and-down days and then the last two days he was in the ICU and things went downhill pretty fast," she said. Rittmanic said her husband had no pre-existing health conditions and thought his hospital stay would be a short one. The couple was excited to welcome their first child in the spring. Ashlyn said while in the hospital her husband learned they were having a boy. "He was on oxygen, but he was able to open the gender and show me via FaceTime," she said. "I will cherish that moment for the rest of my life because it was just amazing. Not quite what we had planned for our gender reveal, but I'm so glad we got to do it." Marcus died two days later. "I'm still in shock and trying to process what's happening this week." https://www.ksl.com/article/50271246/dad-to-be-loses-battle-with-covid-19-after-living-life-to-the-fullest 1
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said: There aren't that many as far as I have seen. Do you have any statistics that can be verified regarding hospitalization of children because of covid? There are around 100 hospitalized children (0-18 years old) PER WEEK in the US. Usually between around 40-50 of those are under the age of 5. See second graph: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network In regards to this being a disease of the elderly - currently school age children have the highest rates per 100,000. See graph/page 2. 65+ age group have the lowest incidence. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime Thanks to the vaccine protecting the elderly, when we are talking total numbers - there are currently as many people in the 18-49 age group being hospitalized as there are in the 65+ age group. See graph 2: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network Deaths per/100,000 are still highest in the 65+ age group, but the vaccine has really narrowed the gap significantly with that age group. Se graph 6: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographicsovertime Edited October 28, 2021 by pogi 3
bsjkki Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 53 minutes ago, pogi said: Not any more. They are all vaccinated. I just read this in the news this morning. It is one of the saddest cases I have heard. Unfortunately, these types of cases are not rare enough and are happening all over the country, and world: I wish we were pushing the early treatments for everyone. Patients seem to get no treatment until they are sick enough to get hospitalized. We know early interventions can prevent hospitalization and death. I wonder how they treated this young man early on or assumed he would not have a severe case. My brother started worsening at 2 weeks and it was scary. We now are at the waning immunity threshold of double vaxxed heading into winter. I hope we get it together with therapeutics. 1
Tacenda Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, pogi said: Not any more. They are all vaccinated. I just read this in the news this morning. It is one of the saddest cases I have heard. Unfortunately, these types of cases are not rare enough and are happening all over the country, and world: Heartbreaking, and this hit close to home having my son getting covid. You just never know who is going to get picked to die by this horrible virus. I'm going today to get my covid test but don't have any symptoms so far. I was recently with my son and took care of him while on vacation when he had a high fever but the next day he said he was fine and then later had a positive covid test. I guess the immunity is great when you get covid, as long as you live through it. Edited October 28, 2021 by Tacenda
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I wish we were pushing the early treatments for everyone. Patients seem to get no treatment until they are sick enough to get hospitalized. We know early interventions can prevent hospitalization and death. I wonder how they treated this young man early on or assumed he would not have a severe case. My brother started worsening at 2 weeks and it was scary. We now are at the waning immunity threshold of double vaxxed heading into winter. I hope we get it together with therapeutics. There aren't any really good options for early treatment right now for people who are not at high risk. Remdisivir and monoclonal antibodies are both IV treatments and are only approved for people 12 and older at risk of developing severe symptoms. Even if there was a good option, most young and low risk individuals will not seek early IV treatment when symptoms are still mild - especially the ones who don't think the disease is a big enough risk to them to get vaccinated. Once someone is in bad enough condition to be hospitalized, it is usually too late for effective early treatment. Molnupiravir is a promising oral treatment for early Covid, but again, it is likely only to be recommended for people who are high risk for severe Covid. Aspirin is another option that has some promising preliminary evidence when taken low-dose before infection even begins. But it is not advised that people start taking low dose aspirin for prevention of covid due to bleeding risks. It has not been studied, that I am aware of, for treatment of early covid. There aren't any good options to push on low risk individuals that I can think of. Here's a good overview of treatments: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treatments-for-covid-19 2
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 48 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I wish we were pushing the early treatments for everyone. Patients seem to get no treatment until they are sick enough to get hospitalized. We know early interventions can prevent hospitalization and death. I wonder how they treated this young man early on or assumed he would not have a severe case. My brother started worsening at 2 weeks and it was scary. We now are at the waning immunity threshold of double vaxxed heading into winter. I hope we get it together with therapeutics. Wasn't the standard to not treat until the patient needed to be hospitalized?
bsjkki Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 13 minutes ago, pogi said: There aren't any really good options for early treatment right now for people who are not at high risk. Remdisivir and monoclonal antibodies are both IV treatments and are only approved for people 12 and older at risk of developing severe symptoms. Even if there was a good option, most young and low risk individuals will not seek early IV treatment when symptoms are still mild - especially the ones who don't think the disease is a big enough risk to them to get vaccinated. Once someone is in bad enough condition to be hospitalized, it is usually too late for effective early treatment. Molnupiravir is a promising oral treatment for early Covid, but again, it is likely only to be recommended for people who are high risk for severe Covid. Aspirin is another option that has some promising preliminary evidence when taken low-dose before infection even begins. But it is not advised that people start taking low dose aspirin for prevention of covid due to bleeding risks. It has not been studied, that I am aware of, for treatment of early covid. There aren't any good options to push on low risk individuals that I can think of. Here's a good overview of treatments: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treatments-for-covid-19 Which after two years is pretty sad. The SSRI is now another option. Vitamin D should be recommended for everyone. 1
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, pogi said: There aren't any really good options for early treatment right now for people who are not at high risk. Remdisivir and monoclonal antibodies are both IV treatments and are only approved for people 12 and older at risk of developing severe symptoms. Even if there was a good option, most young and low risk individuals will not seek early IV treatment when symptoms are still mild - especially the ones who don't think the disease is a big enough risk to them to get vaccinated. Once someone is in bad enough condition to be hospitalized, it is usually too late for effective early treatment. Molnupiravir is a promising oral treatment for early Covid, but again, it is likely only to be recommended for people who are high risk for severe Covid. Aspirin is another option that has some promising preliminary evidence when taken low-dose before infection even begins. But it is not advised that people start taking low dose aspirin for prevention of covid due to bleeding risks. It has not been studied, that I am aware of, for treatment of early covid. There aren't any good options to push on low risk individuals that I can think of. Here's a good overview of treatments: https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treatments-for-covid-19 You know there are doctors that have proposed early treatments using a combination of steroids, antivirals and antibiotics. They claim these treatments work and keep people out of the hospital. As long as no harm is done and the patient consents, why not try these? 1
bsjkki Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Which after two years is pretty sad. The SSRI is now another option. Vitamin D should be recommended for everyone. Data driven new options. Are doctors using them? Vitamin D levels, Aspirin, Famotidine, and Fluvoxomine. 1
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Which after two years is pretty sad. The SSRI is now another option. Vitamin D should be recommended for everyone. Even though it feels like it has been around forever, lets not forget that this virus only started really picking up in the US about 1 year ago - the fact that we already have a promising effective antiviral against Covid in the works is miraculously to me. I don't think people realize what goes into developing and getting a medicine on the market. Viral infections are notoriously hard to treat with antivirals. There are not a lot of antivirals for that reason. The fact that Merck has already developed an effective antiviral is surprisingly great news. Not a lot of good data on Vitamin D to "push it"- Quote While these studies raised hopes among some researchers, others are skeptical, noting that most of these are observational studies, not the gold-standard randomized, controlled trials. Much of the available evidence only shows association — not causation — and even those results are mixed, said Walter Willett, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. "It would be one thing if we had very consistent evidence, but it's showing either some benefit or no benefit at all," Willett said. "At this point in time, we can't really draw any firm conclusions." Vitamin D And Fish Oil Supplements Mostly Disappoint In Long-Awaited Research Results SHOTS - HEALTH NEWS Vitamin D And Fish Oil Supplements Mostly Disappoint In Long-Awaited Research Results Indeed, some observational studies have found no significant associations when it comes to key questions around COVID-19 and vitamin D levels. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/14/985863133/a-year-in-heres-what-we-know-about-vitamin-d-for-preventing-covid See also: https://www.webmd.com/lung/vitamin-d-covid-19-what-to-know#1 https://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/channels/news/vitamin-d-may-not-protect-against-covid-19-previously-suggested-331358 2
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Data driven Not really. A lot of conflicting data and observational studies. Nothing to drive confidence enough to make nationwide recommendations on. Edited October 28, 2021 by pogi 2
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Robert J Anderson said: They claim these treatments work and keep people out of the hospital. A lot of doctors claim lots of things, some of these same doctors claim that semen from demons is responsible for disease in the world. There isn't a lot of good data to back up their claims. Observational studies. Preliminary studies. Conflicting studies. Again, we are talking about making nationwide recommendations for otherwise healthy and low risk individuals in the US. We don't start giving steroids and antibiotics as early treatment to the general public - that would be nuts. Edited October 28, 2021 by pogi 2
Robert J Anderson Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 39 minutes ago, pogi said: A lot of doctors claim lots of things, some of these same doctors claim that semen from demons is responsible for disease in the world. There isn't a lot of good data to back up their claims. Observational studies. Preliminary studies. Conflicting studies. Again, we are talking about making nationwide recommendations for otherwise healthy and low risk individuals in the US. We don't start giving steroids and antibiotics as early treatment to the general public - that would be nuts. Yes doctors do. Prior to the pandemic, if you went to see a doctor and had flu symptoms, you were prescribed various medicines. That's what my doctor friend did and my family physician growing up did. Yet, with covid, patients were turned away, telling them to stay at home unless they had difficulty breathing and then to go to the emergency room. Early treatment was actually discouraged for some reason.
pogi Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Robert J Anderson said: Yes doctors do. Prior to the pandemic, if you went to see a doctor and had flu symptoms, you were prescribed various medicines. That's what my doctor friend did and my family physician growing up did. Yet, with covid, patients were turned away, telling them to stay at home unless they had difficulty breathing and then to go to the emergency room. Early treatment was actually discouraged for some reason. The flu has been around forever. Covid has been around a little over 1 year. Of course doctors are going to have more options for treatment for flu! Despite flu being around forever, most flu treatments only treat symptoms (congestion, cough, fever, etc.). Those same drugs are also available and work for treating symptoms of Covid. Antiviral drugs have been around since 1963. It wasn't until 1999 that we received the first effective antiviral for flu, and that took 3 years to develop and get on the market. Before that, if you went to the doctor for flu, there were no treatments for flu - other than the over-the-counter symptomatic treatments. I think peoples expectations for instant early treatments that the government should be "pushing" for Covid are just a tad unrealistic. As I mentioned previously, the fact that we already have many vaccines, several effective IV treatments on the market, and one oral antiviral in production is completely miraculous. What the medical field and government have accomplished in just over 1 year is to be celebrated as a remarkable victory for medicine. Thank Goodness the CDC does not push antibiotics and steroids for early treatment in the general public as pushed by some antivaxers. You clearly don't understand how serious those drugs are if you think we should be recommending them for early treatment in the general public. Edited October 28, 2021 by pogi 3
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