Status of church

[Raingirl]

44 minutes ago, e-eye said:

If I was high risk with either,  age, weight or some other underlying condition I would vax up, mask up, and probably stay home.  Masks and social distancing do not stop this thing.  I'm not sure if you stated your situation but if you feel that prompting to stay home or if you are high risk stay safe because it's a matter of time before you get it.  For a majority of people Covid isn't that bad, or maybe a week of being sick.

While it’s true that some people experience mild symptoms with Covid, for many it’s a devastating illness with long term damage. Then there are the many thousands who don’t survive.  You can’t predict the outcome in any given individual.  Some who are considered high risk have relatively mild cases, some who are young, healthy, and in shape don’t survive.  It’s naive and ignorant to act as if getting Covid is no big deal. 

[Peacefully]

49 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

While it’s true that some people experience mild symptoms with Covid, for many it’s a devastating illness with long term damage. Then there are the many thousands who don’t survive.  You can’t predict the outcome in any given individual.  Some who are considered high risk have relatively mild cases, some who are young, healthy, and in shape don’t survive.  It’s naive and ignorant to act as if getting Covid is no big deal. 

I tend to think it is more of a cavalier attitude than naivety or ignorance but maybe that is the cynic in me. 

[Raingirl]

10 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I tend to think it is more of a cavalier attitude than naivety or ignorance but maybe that is the cynic in me. 

I actually agree with you. I was trying to be charitable, but I think my charity is misplaced when it comes to Covid.  

[Sam Thorne]

2 hours ago, Raingirl said:

Nope. Don’t have to give your opinion the same weight as posters who have an established track record.  Especially when your opinions put lives in danger. 

Wow. It's a good thing you're not in charge of the country. You'd probably be rounding up and probably throwing people in prison, especially if their "opinions put lives in danger". Heard of the Taliban, recently?

[Peacefully]

22 minutes ago, Sam Thorne said:

Wow. It's a good thing you're not in charge of the country. You'd probably be rounding up and probably throwing people in prison, especially if their "opinions put lives in danger". Heard of the Taliban, recently?

A bit too dramatic, I think. 

[Sam Thorne]

Perhaps, but to say that my opinion puts lives in danger? Also a bit too dramatic, I think. When, at least in America, did it change from being judged by our actions to being judged by our opinions?

[MustardSeed]

Sounds like you are saying that your behavior does not match your opinions. 

[Sam Thorne]

I'm only saying that I should be able to hold a different opinion or thought or idea without being told I'm putting lives in danger simply by expressing them. My original post was about how taking sides in the mask/maskless debate was dividing our peoples (which it is). It's was derailed very quickly into a different subject altogether.

[BlueDreams]

2 hours ago, Sam Thorne said:

I'm only saying that I should be able to hold a different opinion or thought or idea without being told I'm putting lives in danger simply by expressing them. My original post was about how taking sides in the mask/maskless debate was dividing our peoples (which it is). It's was derailed very quickly into a different subject altogether.

If your opinion is "I think I drive pretty safely drunk" that would be an opinion that puts lives in danger. Likewise certain covid related "opinions" definitely do put lives at risk. It's quite simple, certain preventative and slowing measures are needed to slow down the spread just enough to at least allow our hospitals to better manage and in the case of vaccines reduce the likelihood of hospitalizations all together. Each person infected with covid and particularly the delta variant continues to spread the disease in communities and increase the rate of variants. If no measures are taken or only taken by a few in society then the numbers of people with long-term side effects, chronic illness, and hospitalizations go up. When the hospitilzations massively spike, the system gets overwhelmed and other non-covid deaths go up. That's a description of much of the south right now. 

Part of me empathized with the first part of your quote. I got vaxxed and when the CDC changed advice to match new data rolling in about the spread of the delta variant, my first reaction was hesitation and resistance. I didn't care about protecting the unvaccinated because they had an open option to go get the vax and I would likely get a glorified cold. What convinced me was my daughter, who's young and has an underlying health condition. I remembered that many people like her could also unknowingly get sick if I was infected and didn't know it. So I put a solid mask back on and I started curtailing activities. The one time we've made a big exception was because we went to a place that heavily enforced masking.

But to you're point on division. Yes, of course there is. Again this is an issue that directly effects lives. it is nice to assume this is a free choice for everyone in an equal manner. But it's not. Other people's choices burden other sectors of society. Medical staff, support personnel, and everyday people like me. It's not simply that I choose to wear a mask or choose to stay home. I have to stay home more or restrict places I would love to go because I know many people in the area I live choose to not mask and choose to not vaccinate. And their reasons for doing so (I've listened and purposely sought out many) just fall super super flat in comparison. It's not an equal field of reasons, not an equal experience of burden, and inevitably not an equal consequence. That's going to naturally build resentment and disdain and frustration. I'm watching people choose to do what pleases them and act normally when I simply can't afford that choice....but that if they gave a little more consideration for others I could probably rejoin them. 

How am I and others not supposed to feel a sense of division when their choices unnecessarily burden me and keep me having to limit my interactions with them? that's a serious question I've had to wrestle with more than once. All I've got so far is actively practicing forgiveness...which has allowed me to feel compassion when say a man gets sick and dies leaving a wife and children behind because he refused to take this seriously. But it is constant WORK to check my anger and frustration with people in the Unmasked and especially unvaxxed categories. I'm constantly carrying a weight they refuse to fully acknowledge. We will not have peace when a group ignores and downplays the other groups pain, fears, and at times harm they may have unintentionally placed on others and continues to pretend that their choice is simply an individual decision that needs to be respected. 

 

With luv,

BD  

Edited August 31, 2021 by BlueDreams

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Sam Thorne said:

I'm only saying that I should be able to hold a different opinion or thought or idea without being told I'm putting lives in danger simply by expressing them. My original post was about how taking sides in the mask/maskless debate was dividing our peoples (which it is). It's was derailed very quickly into a different subject altogether.

Having to take responsibility for the results of what you say is too heavy a burden for you? You have a fundamental right to be wrong and/or lie?

This kind of whiny responsibility shifting is pathetic.

[Sam Thorne]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Having to take responsibility for the results of what you say is too heavy a burden for you? You have a fundamental right to be wrong and/or lie?

This kind of whiny responsibility shifting is pathetic.

I've never cared about having the last word, so I won't be replying to any further posts on this thread. It's clear to me that some "elderly" posters on this board may have a habit of dominating a conversation by quickly going to name calling, i.e. pathetic, and so on. This, sadly, is the state of many forums online. I appreciate the posts that expanded on some ideas with politeness and a sense of propriety. The others not so much. As I said, my part in this thread is now over. Any further name calling will just be spitting in the wind as far as I'm concerned. Thanks to the moderator for pointing out the one instance of me forgetting one of the rules.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Sam Thorne said:

I've never cared about having the last word, so I won't be replying to any further posts on this thread. It's clear to me that some "elderly" posters on this board may have a habit of dominating a conversation by quickly going to name calling, i.e. pathetic, and so on. This, sadly, is the state of many forums online. I appreciate the posts that expanded on some ideas with politeness and a sense of propriety. The others not so much. As I said, my part in this thread is now over. Any further name calling will just be spitting in the wind as far as I'm concerned. Thanks to the moderator for pointing out the one instance of me forgetting one of the rules.

I’ve never cared about having the last word but I want to rant real quickly about how evil my opponents are and lament how far the Internet forums have fallen that I cannot even defend misinformation that gets people killed without being called a bad person. Now I shall leave with my nose upturned high as I withdraw to discuss philosophy with the other intellectuals on 8chan and leave this den of perversity.

[The Nehor]

I checked in with how the center place of Zion is doing.

Zion is supposed to grow in beauty but scripture was silent about the deep sense of irony.

Also this is two weeks afterwards so……not particularly helpful either.

[mfbukowski]

21 hours ago, Sam Thorne said:

I came here because I wanted to comment on a post. You accuse me of "putting people down for acting responsibly in a pandemic". No where in any of my comments did I say anything that can be said to be "putting people down". This is a forum, and whether I've been here for years, or just signed on as a member, my opinion should be as equal to that of anyone else.

Just fyi- and welcome!

If you hit the "quote" notation at the bottom left of the post to which you are responding, as I just did, the next reader will know the content of the post to which you are responding.

Without that, no one knows to whom you are responding 

Just a tip!

 

[MustardSeed]

For the record, N did not call Sam any names.  He shared his opinion of behavior.  

That Sam chose not to respond at all to Bluedreams heartfelt and eloquent post is information. 

[provoman]

Today, the "mask & vaccinate" Fist Presidency letter was read. No second hour today.  Next week second hour will be virtual.  Bishop, Second Counselor are maksed, 1st Counselor is social distancing.

New cases were of such a concern at neighborhood school, that the County Health Department held an all day "covid-test-a-thon". This school in my wards boundaries, but serves the whole county.

[Ragerunner]

5 hours ago, provoman said:

Today, the "mask & vaccinate" Fist Presidency letter was read. No second hour today.  Next week second hour will be virtual.  Bishop, Second Counselor are maksed, 1st Counselor is social distancing.

New cases were of such a concern at neighborhood school, that the County Health Department held an all day "covid-test-a-thon". This school in my wards boundaries, but serves the whole county.

Would you be willing to say what state you are in?

[secondclasscitizen]

No masks at church today… except for a half dozen or so. It’s a super spreader except pretty much no one is getting it. That is my assumption as the same people are there sitting in their same reserved family pews they have been in for a few years now. 
 

the state of az overall is adding about 3500 ish cases daily which is about 25-30% of what it was this past Jan. We are over it here. Just went to a restaurant this am at work and it was packed. The non Mormons don’t care either. 

[Tacenda]

41 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

No masks at church today… except for a half dozen or so. It’s a super spreader except pretty much no one is getting it. That is my assumption as the same people are there sitting in their same reserved family pews they have been in for a few years now. 
 

the state of az overall is adding about 3500 ish cases daily which is about 25-30% of what it was this past Jan. We are over it here. Just went to a restaurant this am at work and it was packed. The non Mormons don’t care either. 

Are you being sarcastic?

[secondclasscitizen]

7 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Are you being sarcastic?

About what? This is my observation. I guess you could be more specific with what you think I may be sarcastic about. We are rolling along here like nothing is going on . You know- pre pandemic behavior. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

About what? This is my observation. I guess you could be more specific with what you think I may be sarcastic about. We are rolling along here like nothing is going on . You know- pre pandemic behavior. 

 

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

No masks at church today… except for a half dozen or so. It’s a super spreader except pretty much no one is getting it. That is my assumption as the same people are there sitting in their same reserved family pews they have been in for a few years now. 
 

the state of az overall is adding about 3500 ish cases daily which is about 25-30% of what it was this past Jan. We are over it here. Just went to a restaurant this am at work and it was packed. The non Mormons don’t care either. 

So better than in January? In Utah we're up to where we were I think, in January or even worse. 

So do you mean it's a super spreader and no one is getting it, like you mean no one is getting covid or no one is understanding how they should worry about a super spreader?

I'm sorry I'm slow today, it's been a very off day. First with the realization of climate change in a very big way and covid combined.

 

[provoman]

4 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

Would you be willing to say what state you are in?

Utah, Salt Lake Temple District - when it was open.

[secondclasscitizen]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

 

So better than in January? In Utah we're up to where we were I think, in January or even worse. 

better than January so far yes. 
 

 

So do you mean it's a super spreader and no one is getting it, like you mean no one is getting covid or no one is understanding how they should worry about a super spreader?

it’s a super spreader, no one cares and they are not getting COVID either. We have been like this since at least March. 
 

 

I'm sorry I'm slow today, it's been a very off day. First with the realization of climate change in a very big way and covid combined.

 

 

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

 

That's good to hear, and I thought Arizona was bad. But that was before I guess, and maybe high immunity rates helped.

[Rain]

9 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

it’s a super spreader, no one cares and they are not getting COVID either. We have been like this since at least March. 

Except by covid case numbers we are not. In March the numbers were about half or less than they are now and headed down off a steep peak.  Right now the numbers are still heading up a more gradual peak.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/arizona-covid-cases.html