Is Sacrament That Important Right Now?

[MustardSeed]

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 
 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

[JAHS]

5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 
 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

You can certainly feel free to do so. My grand kids love doing it so we will continue. 

[bsjkki]

If you have a stay at home order, stakes are asking members not to bring the Sacrament to others homes and have banned one on one in person interviews. Could be a Stake thing or letters go out to areas. Not sure.

I got a letter from the Stake through my Bishop.

Edited March 26, 2020 by bsjkki

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 
 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

I suppose it is all in how we see the importance of the sacrament personally.

We can only answer that question for ourselves

For me it is crucial to my sanity, and shocking that anyone would see it otherwise. 

Were I an old lady instead of an old man, AND there was no one to come over to help me, to tell the truth, I would get out DC 20 and bless my own sacrament, and I would see it as a "valid" renewal of my covenants- but not a valid "ordinance" - as if "the priesthood" did it.

And doubly so if I happened to be endowed.  I suppose that is controversial.  To me it is common sense.  And I would not doubt that God would allow me to renew my covenants and it would be as "valid" as any personal prayer taking on my own personal covenants with my Lord and Creator.  

Our baptismal covenants - hopefully- were just as much a personal decision as blessing the sacrament in such a situation would be. 

EVERY covenant we make with the Lord is a PERSONAL commitment - so why can't we re-affirm a PERSONAL commitment PERSONALLY?  I need no one else to make a commitment to the Lord.

Remember sister Snow and the ox.

"Give it a rest"???

Not as long as I can breathe.

Edited March 26, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

40 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I suppose it is all in how we see the importance of the sacrament personally.

We can only answer that question for ourselves

For me it is crucial to my sanity, and shocking that anyone would see it otherwise. 

Were I an old lady instead of an old man, AND there was no one to come over to help me, to tell the truth, I would get out DC 20 and bless my own sacrament, and I would see it as "valid" as if "the priesthood" did it.

And doubly so if I happened to be endowed.  I suppose that is controversial.  To me it is common sense.  And I would not doubt that God would allow me to renew my covenants and it would be as "valid" as any personal prayer taking on my own personal covenants with my Lord and Creator.  

Our baptismal covenants - hopefully- were just as much a personal decision as blessing the sacrament in such a situation would be. 

EVERY covenant we make with the Lord is a PERSONAL commitment - so why can't we re-affirm a PERSONAL commitment PERSONALLY?  I need no one else to make a commitment to the Lord.

Remember sister Snow and the ox.

"Give it a rest"???

Not as long as I can breathe.

I see your point, but I have to respectfully disagree. This could not be done with any other priesthood ordinance.

[Nacho2dope]

49 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

If you have a stay at home order, stakes are asking members not to bring the Sacrament to others homes and have banned one on one in person interviews. Could be a Stake thing or letters go out to areas. Not sure.

I got a letter from the Stake through my Bishop.

Do you know if they will be doing any temple recommend interviews?

[Raingirl]

56 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 
 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

I didn’t feel any pressure whatsoever. It was offered clearly as an option if I wanted it. 

If someone is not comfortable having other people in their home at this time - whoever that someone might be - they can simply not invite anyone in. 

[mfbukowski]

27 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I see your point, but I have to respectfully disagree. This could not be done with any other priesthood ordinance.

I did not mean to imply  it would be a valid "ordinance".  I have edited that statement, that made it sound as if that is what I meant.  Thanks for pointing it out.

 I am saying it would be a valid "renewal of covenants" made in one's own heart by reviewing the words and meditating on their meaning in a serious way.

As a temple worker, I have the endowment memorized (pretty much- they keep changing the presentation though!).   Since I cannot attend the temple, I review those words in my mind on occasion and meditate on them.  No it is not an "ordinance"- for me OR for a dead person- yet I can go over it and meditate on it and re-live my own endowment.

But thanks for bringing up the distinction which I did not mention.

Edited March 26, 2020 by mfbukowski

[bsjkki]

25 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

Do you know if they will be doing any temple recommend interviews?

Only by video. They are encouraging people to wait until this is over.

1. For those individuals who have expiring temple recommends and have a tremendous desire to renew them before they expire I am authorized to do the interview over the phone, or some other technology. I can sign my portion of the recommend, but we may have to wait a few weeks for you, the member, to physically sign your portion of the recommend.  This being said, if your recommend expires during this stay at home order, the stake and the bishopric encourage all members to wait and renew their recommends in person once the temples begin to open again.

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I did not mean to imply  it would be a valid "ordinance".  I have edited that statement, that made it sound as if that is what I meant.  Thanks for pointing it out.

 I am saying it would be a valid "renewal of covenants" made in one's own heart by reviewing the words and meditating on their meaning in a serious way.

As a temple worker, I have the endowment memorized (pretty much- they keep changing the presentation though!).   Since I cannot attend the temple, I review those words in my mind on occasion and meditate on them.  No it is not an "ordinance"- for me OR for a dead person- yet I can go over it and meditate on it and re-live my own endowment.

But thanks for bringing up the distinction which I did not mention.

If, (consistent with your own hypothetical)  you truly felt you could mentally renew your own covenants without having a priesthood holder present to administer the sacrament to you, couldn’t you do that anyway without going through the motions of sacrament administration? Why not simply do it through an earnest personal prayer instead of play-acting, as it were, an ordinance performance you admit would not be valid anyway?

[The Nehor]

We were told to discontinue taking the sacrament to others when the county gave shelter at home directions

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 
 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

This goes back to the earlier report about some stake president somewhere who said he wasn’t going to allow it in his stake because it created a “haves and have-nots” situation. A couple of us responded that it doesn’t make sense to make everybody a “have-not” just because you’re afraid of making some few self-identify as such. Instead, we are making every effort to see that all who want it receive it safely and, consistent with First Presidency direction, at least once a month. 
 

If the sacrament were not “that important,” I suppose we could concede that it was just that much empty ritual and dispense with it in our meetings. But we have been commanded in scripture to engage in sacrament observance on the Lord’s day (see Doctrine and Covenants 59) and to partake of it worthily. The Lord Himself, while in mortality, instituted it, and we honor Him by observing it as a replacement for the sacred feast of the Passover that Israel observed for thousands of years. 
 

I haven’t noticed a pressing problem with “old ladies” feeling pressured to have people come over to provide the sacrament. If anything, it’s just the opposite: They would feel deprived and perhaps slighted if there weren’t anyone coming to do that. 

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

We were told to discontinue taking the sacrament to others when the county gave shelter at home directions

Told by whom?

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Seriously, can we just let go of the need to promote sacrament at home? Old ladies especially don’t need to be feeling any pressure to invite priesthood over for sacrament yet. 

We should give it a rest already. Imo. 

I'm not sure how much "promot[ion]" has been going on, but our bishop instructed our EQ president the other day to send out an email reminding everyone that the goal has always been that we would make the sacrament available to everyone at least once per month. So, if you have had someone bring the sacrament to you in the last couple of weeks, you are good until mid-April. 

I guess I kind of think of this as being a little bit like temple attendance. It's unquestionably a good thing, and it's great if you can participate frequently, but if not - the world won't end.

So, if circumstances permit you to participate every week, great! Go for it, and enjoy the blessings that come with.

But if not, there's nothing wrong with that, and you shouldn't feel judged for not wanting to have people over to your house every single week. 

 

[Duncan]

Isn't it once a month now? Two weeks ago our EQ Pres. put out an appeal for people who wanted the sacrament, mass email. We got some responses and took care of it but now we are getting calls and emails, it was as if they didn't get the email. Like 😣😣😣😣😣 now it's a big deal? where you for two weeks? two weeks? it has to be done now or heaven will fall!!!! So, we're trying to get out to people as quick as we can

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If, (consistent with your own hypothetical)  you truly felt you could mentally renew your own covenants without having a priesthood holder present to administer the sacrament to you, couldn’t you do that anyway without going through the motions of sacrament administration? Why not simply do it through an earnest personal prayer instead of play-acting, as it were, an ordinance performance you admit would not be valid anyway?

My mind works quite differently than yours

I said without the priesthood there it would not be a "valid ordinance", but an earnest prayer and renewal of Covenants. 

Performing a liturgy is not the same as "play-acting" any more than telling your wife that you love her, for the four hundred-thousandth time is play acting.

I don't understand your objection to this.

Your statement doesn't say anything to tell me why I was wrong.

[Scott Lloyd]

33 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

My mind works quite differently than yours

I said without the priesthood there it would not be a "valid ordinance", but an earnest prayer and renewal of Covenants. 

Performing a liturgy is not the same as "play-acting" any more than telling your wife that you love her, for the four hundred-thousandth time is play acting.

I don't understand your objection to this.

Your statement doesn't say anything to tell me why I was wrong.

You admitted that in the hypothetical you presented (you being an old lady with no priesthood holder in the home), your personal and individual staging of a sacrament “ordinance” would have no validity per se, that the only purpose would be an occasion for you to mentally renew your covenants. I’m suggesting that if the purpose is to occasion the mental renewing of your covenants, just go ahead and do that through a personal prayer without tacking on what would amount to an invalid ritual. 
 

I agree with you, by the way, about the supernal importance of the sacrament and that one ought not take a cavalier, “give-it-a-rest” attitude toward it. But it is what it is and, like other priesthood ordinances, should be performed with exactness and honor. We even insist on word-perfect repetition of the sacrament prayers from priesthood holders who administer it. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Told by whom?

Our Stake Presidency.

[Maidservant]

While acknowledging others experiences in relationship to this quite uncertain time on this particular issue, I have to say that personally this moment has conspired to create possibly my most beautiful experiences with the Sacrament so far in my life. At this time, we live in a shared home. There is a couple in their sixties. Myself, my Teacher son, and my returned missionary Elder son (returned before this world situation). The Brother has explicit permission from the bishop to perform the Sacrament for the five of us, plus two specific single ladies (who came to the home the last two Sundays).

I know not everyone could possibly have this, but the Sister happens to have a "white" formal room--white carpet, walls, furniture, etc. This is where we have been holding our mini church service. When I first saw the white shrouded little table (covered Sacrament with white table cloth and white handkerchiefs) within that white room, setting before a bank of several tall windows letting in the light; wow. I felt like I was going to be taking the Sacrament in a/the temple.

And it has been something to watch my sons help bless the Sacrament (older) and then pass the Sacrament (younger). This is something they can do together (and they are very different people that have a hard time doing anything together without *cough* killing *cough* each other). But they afford the ceremony reverence. I'm also happy to see my younger son do this, since he has not been able to pass in the ward since he was a Deacon; and he does not have an affinity for the gospel or church in the way my older children have i.e. barring him having an epiphany between now and then, I'm sure that once he hits college he's done with the church; right now he does it only because it's a family and social thing for him. But I know that he takes joy in contributing, so being a part of contributing to the ritual of our religion to the joy and comfort of those in the room, I think is not lost on him; and seeing it in a different space and way and the hunger the rest of us had for doing this ritual, not only because of some weekly habit. Anyway, not sure if I'm making sense.

But I will always remember these Sacraments and am grateful they were one consequence of the turn of events. (We've had two, the last two weeks, since church was canceled; so far we are planning to continue having them.)

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You admitted that in the hypothetical you presented (you being an old lady with no priesthood holder in the home), your personal and individual staging of a sacrament “ordinance” would have no validity per se, that the only purpose would be an occasion for you to mentally renew your covenants. I’m suggesting that if the purpose is to occasion the mental renewing of your covenants, just go ahead and do that through a personal prayer without tacking on what would amount to an invalid ritual. 
 

I agree with you, by the way, about the supernal importance of the sacrament and that one ought not take a cavalier, “give-it-a-rest” attitude toward it. But it is what it is and, like other priesthood ordinances, should be performed with exactness and honor. We even insist on word-perfect repetition of the sacrament prayers from priesthood holders who administer it. 

Oddly, I suppose to you, I believe in a God who hears all prayers, and that none are "invalid"

I said it would be a "prayer", not an ordinance.

I am no one's judge of which ordinances or prayers are valid or not. I can't conceive of prayers being invalid.

It appears we are not communicating on several levels. 

I repeatedly have made a distinction between ordinances and prayers and you don't seem willing to address that.

I think it's time agree to disagree although I don't even know precisely what we are disagreeing about. It has not been defined. From my side it appears you are not listening. I just don't want to waste time with this.

[mfbukowski]

18 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

While acknowledging others experiences in relationship to this quite uncertain time on this particular issue, I have to say that personally this moment has conspired to create possibly my most beautiful experiences with the Sacrament so far in my life. At this time, we live in a shared home. There is a couple in their sixties. Myself, my Teacher son, and my returned missionary Elder son (returned before this world situation). The Brother has explicit permission from the bishop to perform the Sacrament for the five of us, plus two specific single ladies (who came to the home the last two Sundays).

I know not everyone could possibly have this, but the Sister happens to have a "white" formal room--white carpet, walls, furniture, etc. This is where we have been holding our mini church service. When I first saw the white shrouded little table (covered Sacrament with white table cloth and white handkerchiefs) within that white room, setting before a bank of several tall windows letting in the light; wow. I felt like I was going to be taking the Sacrament in a/the temple.

And it has been something to watch my sons help bless the Sacrament (older) and then pass the Sacrament (younger). This is something they can do together (and they are very different people that have a hard time doing anything together without *cough* killing *cough* each other). But they afford the ceremony reverence. I'm also happy to see my younger son do this, since he has not been able to pass in the ward since he was a Deacon; and he does not have an affinity for the gospel or church in the way my older children have i.e. barring him having an epiphany between now and then, I'm sure that once he hits college he's done with the church; right now he does it only because it's a family and social thing for him. But I know that he takes joy in contributing, so being a part of contributing to the ritual of our religion to the joy and comfort of those in the room, I think is not lost on him; and seeing it in a different space and way and the hunger the rest of us had for doing this ritual, not only because of some weekly habit. Anyway, not sure if I'm making sense.

But I will always remember these Sacraments and am grateful they were one consequence of the turn of events. (We've had two, the last two weeks, since church was canceled; so far we are planning to continue having them.)

My sweetheart joyfully has been teary eyed throughout the length of our little services. It's actually been a wonderful experience, despite the tragic reason such services are necessary.

Edited March 27, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Navidad]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

EVERY covenant we make with the Lord is a PERSONAL commitment - so why can't we re-affirm a PERSONAL commitment PERSONALLY?  I need no one else to make a commitment to the L

This is what I do every Sunday in the Sacrament meeting! Neither do I need anyone else to make a commitment to the Lord!

[Navidad]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why not simply do it through an earnest personal prayer instead of play-acting, as it were, an ordinance performance you admit would not be valid anyway?

Play-acting the sacrament ordinance would be eating and drinking damnation to ones self. One would then be taking unworthily. Who is play-acting and how would you know anyone's heart so as to accuse them of play-acting? 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Navidad

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

But I know that he takes joy in contributing, so being a part of contributing to the ritual of our religion to the joy and comfort of those in the room, I think is not lost on him; and seeing it in a different space and way and the hunger the rest of us had for doing this ritual, not only because of some weekly habit. Anyway, not sure if I'm making sense

This is why I was disappointed that some bishops were requiring temple recommends for those providing the sacrament. You are making perfect sense to me. What a beautiful and sweet opportunity.

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Maidservant said:

But I will always remember these Sacraments and am grateful they were one consequence of the turn of events. (We've had two, the last two weeks, since church was canceled; so far we are planning to continue having them.)

I hope your son is touched by his participation in the sacrament and feels drawn back to the church because of it. I also hope he is drawn closer to his brother through the miracle of grace that is felt in that ordinance. Best to you!