Hamba Tuhan Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) FWIW, our missionaries are still actively visiting people in their homes and in public places, with emphasis on hygiene and social distancing. We have been instructed to have small baptismal services, and the mission president can authorise font-side confirmation. Edited March 18, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan
Kenngo1969 Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 42 minutes ago, bsjkki said: Give it two weeks, and they will all be sent home. It's not getting better out there. Better to send them home, quarantine them here for 2 weeks as they arrive before they go home to their families. Stateside should just go home. Pray...it's going to get rough. You may very well be right, and, certainly, it's not my intent to minimize something as serious as COVID-19. But things don't happen until they do. I think it's possible to overreact, even to something as serious as COVID-19, and I think that, in some ways, the overreaction is worse than the disease. (Sending all missionaries home might be such an overreaction.)
mfbukowski Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 11:58 AM, Kenngo1969 said: Well, now that you mention it, actually, s/he does, since s/he's incognitus. https://worldofdictionary.com/dict/latin-english/meaning/incognitus No, I think he's just in the suburbs, toward the south I think it's called South Cog-neato, but it has been years since I passed through there 1
Tacenda Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 https://www.Mormon*******.***/podcast/mormon-church-please-quarantine-your-missionaries-patriarchs-members-etc-from-covid-10-coronavirus-they-are-not-safe-and-they-could-become-carriers/ I guess it's business as usual according to these reports, I wonder what is going on.
The Nehor Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: Give it two weeks, and they will all be sent home. It's not getting better out there. Better to send them home, quarantine them here for 2 weeks as they arrive before they go home to their families. Stateside should just go home. Pray...it's going to get rough. Assuming they can get home. I just got a digital missionary meal calendar. Tempted to sign up but I still have these allergies and I hate making people be around me because it just causes more worry for them. Of course I could also be asymptomatic and actually have the virus but that is true of almost everyone. 1
The Nehor Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tacenda said: https://www.Mormon*******.***/podcast/mormon-church-please-quarantine-your-missionaries-patriarchs-members-etc-from-covid-10-coronavirus-they-are-not-safe-and-they-could-become-carriers/ I guess it's business as usual according to these reports, I wonder what is going on. There would be a huge problem getting missionaries back out when this blows over if everyone is sent home. Right now it is basically agreed that planes and airports are the quickest way to get infected. Close quarters, recycled air. They are generally about as safe where they are in the field as they would be at home. Sending them home is also likely to cause lots of people to want to visit to see them again and the last thing a returning missionary wants to do is infect grandma and then the virus kills her because he was an asymptomatic carrier and caught the virus on the way home. I would avoid flying right now if at all possible. I am worried for my brother who is set to fly home tomorrow from a work thing that probably won't matter in a week. He and his family will probably be fine but my mom and dad will want to keep visiting the kids. They are over 60 but both still work out and are very healthy so hopefully it will be okay. 1
bsjkki Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) Https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/17/politics/americans-stranded-in-peru/index.html?espv=1Peru shut down their borders. Americans are trapped in Peru. Can you imagine being quarantined with a bad companion? Torture. 😬 Edited March 18, 2020 by bsjkki 1
Calm Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: You may very well be right, and, certainly, it's not my intent to minimize something as serious as COVID-19. But things don't happen until they do. I think it's possible to overreact, even to something as serious as COVID-19, and I think that, in some ways, the overreaction is worse than the disease. (Sending all missionaries home might be such an overreaction.) With some countries closing borders to any infected, even their own citizens, makes sense to me to send everyone to their own country at least, especially if a country has limited health care and may require foreigners to pay high amounts. 1
Calm Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: There would be a huge problem getting missionaries back out when this blows over if everyone is sent home. Right now it is basically agreed that planes and airports are the quickest way to get infected. Close quarters, recycled air. They are generally about as safe where they are in the field as they would be at home. Sending them home is also likely to cause lots of people to want to visit to see them again and the last thing a returning missionary wants to do is infect grandma and then the virus kills her because he was an asymptomatic carrier and caught the virus on the way home. I would avoid flying right now if at all possible. I am worried for my brother who is set to fly home tomorrow from a work thing that probably won't matter in a week. He and his family will probably be fine but my mom and dad will want to keep visiting the kids. They are over 60 but both still work out and are very healthy so hopefully it will be okay. Have them sit outside to visit and no hugging.
Boanerges Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) I just learned this yesterday, but in our mission the missionaries have been to to remain in their apartments for at least the next two weeks. They can contact via phone, Facebook, etc., and they can have discussions that way as well but they're supposed to remain in their apartments except for needed trips for shopping. Thinking back to my own days as a missionary I'd have gone stir crazy and probably gotten into trouble (probably homicide). I did just read an article this morning that all non-native missionaries in the Philippines are being sent other places or home. Edited March 18, 2020 by Boanerges
rongo Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: There would be a huge problem getting missionaries back out when this blows over if everyone is sent home. I wonder about the long-term effect on senior couples this will have, too. I think that psychologically, some who were on the fence or a little iffy may decide not to. The 21 month mission length just imposed on North America is to make room for the missionaries from Asian countries who need to be placed stateside. Interesting that they didn't form some new missions as was done during the "surge." I wonder how long it will take (or if) to get missionary numbers back up in Asian countries.
The Nehor Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 6 hours ago, Calm said: Have them sit outside to visit and no hugging. Many would not follow such a rule.
Ginger Snaps Posted March 18, 2020 Posted March 18, 2020 Ours are business as usual as far as I can tell. They wanted to come over Sunday night to give us a message, but one of my kids is sick with a terrible cough so we declined.
bsjkki Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 The State department is readying guidelines. I’m sure the church will comply with this edict. https://www.the-sun.com/news/561689/coronavirus-state-department-travel-america/ Rumors are the state department will ask Americans to come home and also that American do not travel abroad. It was asked about in today’s briefing. The State department will make the announcement when it is ready. Australia closed borders today. 1
rongo Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) Oh, I hope not! Or, I hope that missions take the option to "shelter in place" rather than send the Americans home. Our son doesn't hit his one year mark in Norway until July. ETA: If we're really terrified of spreading this virus or bringing it here, does it make sense to fly tens of thousands of missionaries home from abroad? Doesn't it make more sense to hunker down there? It's things like this that make me tend towards wearing a tin foil hat, and wondering whether this is an exercise in control and martial law. Edited March 19, 2020 by rongo
bsjkki Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, rongo said: Oh, I hope not! Or, I hope that missions take the option to "shelter in place" rather than send the Americans home. Our son doesn't hit his one year mark in Norway until July. ETA: If we're really terrified of spreading this virus or bringing it here, does it make sense to fly tens of thousands of missionaries home from abroad? Doesn't it make more sense to hunker down there? It's things like this that make me tend towards wearing a tin foil hat, and wondering whether this is an exercise in control and martial law. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/19/coronavirus-travel-advisory-level-four-137227?espv=1 The problem is tourists who get stuck in these closed border countries. Tourists are stuck in Peru and want the State department to rescue them. It makes sense to encourage Americans to come home before borders shut down. Some missionaries may find it difficult to come home at all. ”The advisory, which appears to be unprecedented, would instruct all Americans abroad to either return to the United States or prepare to shelter in place, given the global threat of the coronavirus outbreak. Americans also would be instructed not to travel abroad.” Edited March 19, 2020 by bsjkki 1
The Nehor Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bsjkki said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/19/coronavirus-travel-advisory-level-four-137227?espv=1 The problem is tourists who get stuck in these closed border countries. Tourists are stuck in Peru and want the State department to rescue them. It makes sense to encourage Americans to come home before borders shut down. Some missionaries may find it difficult to come home at all. ”The advisory, which appears to be unprecedented, would instruct all Americans abroad to either return to the United States or prepare to shelter in place, given the global threat of the coronavirus outbreak. Americans also would be instructed not to travel abroad.” I admit to a lack of sympathy for those in Peru that are stuck there. What possessed you to go play tourist in the middle of a pandemic? 59 minutes ago, rongo said: Oh, I hope not! Or, I hope that missions take the option to "shelter in place" rather than send the Americans home. Our son doesn't hit his one year mark in Norway until July. ETA: If we're really terrified of spreading this virus or bringing it here, does it make sense to fly tens of thousands of missionaries home from abroad? Doesn't it make more sense to hunker down there? It's things like this that make me tend towards wearing a tin foil hat, and wondering whether this is an exercise in control and martial law. Ideally there will be quarantines like there were early on. I wonder how much longer we will keep planes flying as well. Even if the government does not do anything the airline unions are bound to start justifiably striking over how much unnecessary danger their people are being put in. As to tinfoil hat do you think this is a fake being perpetuated by every news organization on the planet? Edited March 19, 2020 by The Nehor
pogi Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, bsjkki said: The State department is readying guidelines. I’m sure the church will comply with this edict. https://www.the-sun.com/news/561689/coronavirus-state-department-travel-america/ Rumors are the state department will ask Americans to come home and also that American do not travel abroad. It was asked about in today’s briefing. The State department will make the announcement when it is ready. Australia closed borders today. American's already are not traveling abroad. In a matter of weeks my schedule went from being booked out 6 weeks with pre-travel visits to being completely open and empty today and for the rest of the foreseeable future. The county will likely close down our department if/when this picks up more in Utah and move us to epidemiology or emergency response roles. I agree with Rongo though, "hunker down" makes more sense from an infectious disease control standpoint. The only people that they should be encouraging to come home are those in a high-risk category in a developing country. I would hate to be an 80 year old with diabetes stuck in a developing country with sub-par medical care and resources during this pandemic! 1
rongo Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: As to tinfoil hat do you think this is a fake being perpetuated by every news organization on the planet? I was being facetious. Kind of. Stores are out of tin foil, but otherwise, I would . . . I think the media outlets are feeding into the hysteria (willingly --- that is, they buy into it; they aren't crossing their fingers behind their backs). It's just that the forced shortages, approaching martial law conditions, etc. seem out of whack in proportion to the actual amount of sickness and risk to hospital infrastructure. It seems more and more like this is a fire drill for population and economic manipulation. I read yesterday in sources like the MIT Review that we should expect this to continue for eighteen months (which I don't think people would stand for, personally, without firsthand evidence of the need), and that we should implement a system of rolling shutdowns in proportion to ICU capacity (schools closed, now school open. Okay, shut 'em down again . . .). https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/ It seems like this is more about control than it is about curbing an extremely dangerous pandemic. The Church, under governmental advice, pulled all American missionaries out of Africa. Africa and the U.S. (with the exception of Seattle, the Bay Area, and New York City) and South America are the places most **untouched** by Corona. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
pogi Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I admit to a lack of sympathy for those in Peru that are stuck there. What possessed you to go play tourist in the middle of a pandemic? Many were there (including missionaries) before the pandemic began, or before it hit anywhere in South America. Lots of business travelers, humanitarians, researchers, students, etc. it is not just tourists. 2
rongo Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, rongo said: The Church, under governmental advice, pulled all American missionaries out of Africa. Africa and the U.S. (with the exception of Seattle, the Bay Area, and New York City) and South America are the places most **untouched** by Corona. A Canadian elder from Alberta we had over for dinner Tuesday told us that everyone in Alberta had been tested, while very few in the U.S. had, which is why Alberta has a high number of confirmed cases. I agree that the real numbers are a function of testing everyone, but I'm not convinced that even that is necessary. The vast majority of people who get it are fine --- the stories in the media are of those who go pneumonic. I've had pneumonia three times in my life; it can happen to anyone, but the elderly and young people are especially prone. Surprisingly, the young and the very young are relatively untouched by this. Rather than uproot and destroy civilization and the world economy over this, wouldn't it make more sense to invest in mobile hospital unit capabilities specializing in respiratory distress (to help with overloaded hospitals)? There would still be the problem of qualified personnel to man them, but maybe the military could be used to train and deploy people for this. I'm just looking at four years' of record wealth accumulation (a paper tiger, granted) destroyed and annulled over one week.
The Nehor Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, rongo said: I was being facetious. Kind of. Stores are out of tin foil, but otherwise, I would . . . I think the media outlets are feeding into the hysteria (willingly --- that is, they buy into it; they aren't crossing their fingers behind their backs). It's just that the forced shortages, approaching martial law conditions, etc. seem out of whack in proportion to the actual amount of sickness and risk to hospital infrastructure. It seems more and more like this is a fire drill for population and economic manipulation. I read yesterday in sources like the MIT Review that we should expect this to continue for eighteen months (which I don't think people would stand for, personally, without firsthand evidence of the need), and that we should implement a system of rolling shutdowns in proportion to ICU capacity (schools closed, now school open. Okay, shut 'em down again . . .). https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/ It seems like this is more about control than it is about curbing an extremely dangerous pandemic. The Church, under governmental advice, pulled all American missionaries out of Africa. Africa and the U.S. (with the exception of Seattle, the Bay Area, and New York City) and South America are the places most **untouched** by Corona. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 That 18 month setup is possible. That is a worst case and most serious scenarios predicting that come from the scary scenario that immunity to the virus is very short-lived. If it was about control surely they would have exercised some.....you know....control. Sealed the borders early, grounded flights, implemented quarantines, shut things down by government order (most shut downs have been voluntary). The US federal government largely stuck its fingers in its ears and closed its eyes and hoped the whole thing would go away. If this is a dry run for fascism they are doing it all wrong. We are about three weeks out from it being bad in a large part of the US. We'll know then. 5 minutes ago, rongo said: A Canadian elder from Alberta we had over for dinner Tuesday told us that everyone in Alberta had been tested, while very few in the U.S. had, which is why Alberta has a high number of confirmed cases. I agree that the real numbers are a function of testing everyone, but I'm not convinced that even that is necessary. The vast majority of people who get it are fine --- the stories in the media are of those who go pneumonic. I've had pneumonia three times in my life; it can happen to anyone, but the elderly and young people are especially prone. Surprisingly, the young and the very young are relatively untouched by this. Rather than uproot and destroy civilization and the world economy over this, wouldn't it make more sense to invest in mobile hospital unit capabilities specializing in respiratory distress (to help with overloaded hospitals)? There would still be the problem of qualified personnel to man them, but maybe the military could be used to train and deploy people for this. I'm just looking at four years' of record wealth accumulation (a paper tiger, granted) destroyed and annulled over one week. Projections range from around 200k dead to 1.7 million dead. These are guesswork as we still do not have really good lethality percentages but it is worth taking action to prevent. How in the world do you suggest they create mobile hospitals in two weeks? You need doctors. You cannot train someone to handle people in repiratory distress in two weeks and that assumes you have the equipment for the mobile hospitals which we really don't. The company I work for makes the breathing equipment we need but I expect the factories in Europe to go down soon. Virus just arrived in the city a few days ago. As to wealth evaporating I feel you. I am down almost $40k now and the bottom is probably still a long ways down. Still, at the base level the economy exists to serve us. Letting people die to save the economy is disturbingly like reading about Babylon in the book of Revelation. 2
The Nehor Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, pogi said: Many were there (including missionaries) before the pandemic began, or before it hit anywhere in South America. Lots of business travelers, humanitarians, researchers, students, etc. it is not just tourists. I know but still. The news was everywhere.
rongo Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 42 minutes ago, The Nehor said: If it was about control surely they would have exercised some.....you know....control. Sealed the borders early, grounded flights, implemented quarantines, shut things down by government order (most shut downs have been voluntary). Not if it is just a phase one run-through. In terms of testing overall responsiveness to "soft" governmental demands, I'd say it's been a success . . . We are about three weeks out from it being bad in a large part of the US. We'll know then. Nail on the head. We'll know more soon.
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