Lent

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

There is a kind of innocent super egotistical solipsism there that's hard to peg.

It would be rude to talk about him this way but he doesn't notice his own rudeness, so it seems like he is just impervious to rudeness.  He doesn't see it, as if he is blind to it.

Makes me want to keep experimenting, to see if ANYTHING gets through.  Not good, I suppose, to keep poking.

Odd experience 

I have a theory. Also, I can’t stop poking. I like saying outrageous things or provoking others to do so. I think it is my brain trying to keep from getting bored.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

In your opinion.  I gave mine. So there.

Root beer.  Ginger beer.  Cream soda.  Wine made from grapes.  All homemade from scratch using natural ingredients including grains and fruit while trying to not let it all sit around for very long before drinking it up.  

What you think of  beer may not be what I think of beer.  And wine too.  Remember, you need to try to make sure we are talking about the same thing when using the words we are using.

 

Everything authoritative I’ve seen from the Church regarding the Word of Wisdom as it pertains to alcoholic beverages indicates they are prohibited. So it is not just an opinion on my part. It is authoritative direction. 
 

If what you say is true, that a modicum of alcohol in beverages is permissible, what precisely is that level? And more to the point, what direction can you show from the Church to document it?

Edited February 27, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

My question is this: is being rude a sin?  If so, can you quote me chapter and verse?  Or is it even enumerable?  There are people who go around with long faces feeling guilty, and seem to be proud of it.

Ahab thinks he might not have committed any sins for a particular period of time -- is there something sinful in thinking this?

There's a difference between being rude and speaking one's mind. Those who disagree with someone's opinion might think the other person is being rude when they speak their mind, and is that a sin, too?  Like three fingers pointing back at the person pointing fingers?

The thing is, the Savior spoke his mind on topics the Pharisees had a very fixed notion about, and he disagreed with a lot they had to say. And sometimes he might have said it "rudely" to their way of thinking.  And he was without sin, so perhaps rudeness isn't really a sin.

 

 

 

Leaving Ahab out of it, couldn't the sin of rudeness (as in being discourteous to someone or showing a lack of consideration to another) be an aspect of breaking the 2nd greatest commandment?  

[MustardSeed]

imo Being rude is a sin. 
Also I completely reject the idea that identifying arrogance is an arrogant stance. 

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Everything authoritative I’ve seen from the Church regarding the Word of Wisdom as it pertains to alcoholic beverages indicates they are prohibited. So it is not just an opinion on my part. It is authoritative direction. 
 

If what you say is true, that a modicum of alcohol in beverages is permissible, what precisely is that level? And more to the point, what direction can you show from the Church to document it?

I suggest you seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit as you seek answers to these questions.  You can choose to accept whatever anyone says when they speak over a pulpit in a Church meeting, or more particularly General Conference addresses, or maybe depending on the office of the priesthood to which they have been called, but I suggest you run everything by the Spirit so that you will be getting your guidance directly from God rather than from some men who are sharing their perspectives, however they got them.

I would like you to understand what I am talking about, though.  I'm talking about making drinks using fresh grains and fruits and yeast and sugar, either making them yourself or finding store bought products that would make them like you would want them to be made.  I don't let them sit around to ferment for a long time, as most producers do when they want them to be fermented.  they just start fermenting on their own because of the yeast and sugar mixed together and I try to drink them as fresh as possible and preferably with no fermentation, but that is very difficult to achieve even with very fresh ingredients and drinking them soon after they are all mixed.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ahab

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Everything authoritative I’ve seen from the Church regarding the Word of Wisdom as it pertains to alcoholic beverages indicates they are prohibited. So it is not just an opinion on my part. It is authoritative direction. 
 

If what you say is true, that a modicum of alcohol in beverages is permissible, what precisely is that level? And more to the point, what direction can you show from the Church to document it?

I think he is playing word games again and meant he was talking about root beer. I hope not because that would be:

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

imo Being rude is a sin. 
Also I completely reject the idea that identifying arrogance is an arrogant stance. 

 Maybe but less of a sin than being boring.

[MustardSeed]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I suggest you seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit as you seek answers to these questions.  You can choose to accept whatever anyone says when they speak over a pulpit in a Church meeting, or more particularly General Conference addresses, or maybe depending on the office of the priesthood to which they have been called, but I suggest you run everything by the Spirit so that you will be getting your guidance directly from God rather than from some men who are sharing their perspectives, however they got them.

I would like you to understand what I am talking about, though.  I'm talking about making drinks using fresh grains and fruits and yeast and sugar, either making them yourself or finding store bought products that would make them like you would want them to be made.  I don't let them sit around to ferment for a long time, as most producers do when they want them to be fermented.  they just start fermenting on their own because of the yeast and sugar mixed together and I try to drink them as fresh as possible and preferably with no fermentation, but that is very difficult to achieve even with very fresh ingredients and drinking them soon after they are all mixed.

So like Kombucha? 

You do you.  That doesn’t fit within the letter of the law of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, but if I care about that then I’m a hypocrite. I have enough of my own daily sins to worry about to put any further energy into trying to get you to acknowledge your human flaws. 

[MustardSeed]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 Maybe but less of a sin than being boring.

Boring is the WORST. 

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

So like Kombucha? 

You do you.  That doesn’t fit within the letter of the law of the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, but if I care about that then I’m a hypocrite. I have enough of my own daily sins to worry about to put any further energy into trying to get you to acknowledge your human flaws. 

Ahem, show some respect. Ahab has assured us that he has been sinless for years now. Suggesting Ahab has flaws. Ridiculous.

Edited February 27, 2020 by The Nehor

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I think he is playing word games again and meant he was talking about root beer.

Root beer is made with yeast too.  And usually some type of sugar.  So even fresh homemade root beer can ferment a little bit, or a lot, depending on how long you leave the yeast in it.  Here is a typical recipe:

Non-Alcoholic Root Beer #1
WHAT YOU'LL NEED	OPTIONAL ADD-INS
3 cups Sassafras Root Bark 3 teaspoons wintergreen leaf 3 pounds sugar (unrefined organic cane sugar or brown sugar preferred) 2 cups molasses 2 ounces vanilla extract (adjust to 1 ounce if desired) 5 gallons water A neutral ale yeast (if bottle carbonating)	4-6 cinnamon sticks 3 teaspoons licorice root 0.5 teaspoon of coriander and allspice 0.5 teaspoon nutmeg

Add your Sassafras Root, wintergreen, vanilla extract, and optional herbs to five gallons of water. Using a cheesecloth or herb sack is recommended.

1. Bring to a boil.
2. When boil is reached, reduce heat and add sugar and molasses. Stir thoroughly.
3. Allow mixture to simmer for 30 minutes.
4. Cut heat and allow to cool, or cool as you would a wort.
5. Pitch yeast, stir gently, then immediately bottle, leaving about two inches of head space at the top of each bottle.
6. Store bottles at room temperature, ideally around 75 degrees or so. If bottling into glass (which I recommend you avoid), check after two days for carbonation, then check every six hours until your desired carbonation is reached. Once reached, immediately refrigerate (colder temperatures preferred). If bottling into plastic, after 48 hours squeeze bottles to check carbonation. Repeat every 12 hours. When the bottles are firm with little to no give, they have reached proper carbonation. Refrigerate immediately.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Ahem, show some respect. Ahab has assured us that he has been sinless for years now. Suggesting Ahab has flaws. Ridiculous.

Thank you.  Thank you.  But in all honesty, I do have flaws.  I just haven't sinned in a while, which is not the same thing as being perfect.

[MustardSeed]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 Maybe but less of a sin t

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Root beer is made with yeast too.  And usually some type of sugar.  So even fresh homemade root beer can ferment a little bit, or a lot, depending on how long you leave the yeast in it.  Here is a typical recipe:

Non-Alcoholic Root Beer #1
WHAT YOU'LL NEED	OPTIONAL ADD-INS
3 cups Sassafras Root Bark 3 teaspoons wintergreen leaf 3 pounds sugar (unrefined organic cane sugar or brown sugar preferred) 2 cups molasses 2 ounces vanilla extract (adjust to 1 ounce if desired) 5 gallons water A neutral ale yeast (if bottle carbonating)	4-6 cinnamon sticks 3 teaspoons licorice root 0.5 teaspoon of coriander and allspice 0.5 teaspoon nutmeg

Add your Sassafras Root, wintergreen, vanilla extract, and optional herbs to five gallons of water. Using a cheesecloth or herb sack is recommended.

1. Bring to a boil.
2. When boil is reached, reduce heat and add sugar and molasses. Stir thoroughly.
3. Allow mixture to simmer for 30 minutes.
4. Cut heat and allow to cool, or cool as you would a wort.
5. Pitch yeast, stir gently, then immediately bottle, leaving about two inches of head space at the top of each bottle.
6. Store bottles at room temperature, ideally around 75 degrees or so. If bottling into glass (which I recommend you avoid), check after two days for carbonation, then check every six hours until your desired carbonation is reached. Once reached, immediately refrigerate (colder temperatures preferred). If bottling into plastic, after 48 hours squeeze bottles to check carbonation. Repeat every 12 hours. When the bottles are firm with little to no give, they have reached proper carbonation. Refrigerate immediately.

Game playing.  If you say you like beer and wine, with trace alcohol, own it.  Say what you mean , mean what you say. I’m done here,  not interested. 

[The Nehor]

Just now, MustardSeed said:

Game playing.  If you say you like beer and wine, with trace alcohol, own it.  Say what you mean , mean what you say. I’m done here,  not interested. 

I don’t think you get the whole Ahab thing.

[Teancum]

20 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Gotta say my least favorite thing to contemplate is my sinful nature. 
 

On an only slightly related note, I just watched a news conference with President Trump on the coronavirus. The news anchor on Fox had this very distracting black mark on his forehead. I only wondered for a moment before I Googled “Ash Wednesday” and learned that it is today. 

You need to get out of Utah a bit more. 😉  I will oconfess the first time I saw the ashes on ash Wednesday while being new to an area with lots of Catholics I wondered what the heck was going on.

[Ahab]

15 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Game playing.  If you say you like beer and wine, with trace alcohol, own it.  Say what you mean , mean what you say. I’m done here,  not interested. 

No, not game playing.  I was just showing a root beer recipe that would result in fermentation. I do like root beer and it is a type of beer.  I also like other beers, too. 

Here is some more information about making other types of beer, which are technically considered non-alcoholic versions of beer, but which could still be fermented/have some alcohol in it even though you would be trying to make them non-alcoholic:

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/blogs/beer-making/how-do-you-make-non-alcoholic-beer

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ahab

[Ahab]

31 minutes ago, Teancum said:

You need to get out of Utah a bit more. 😉  I will oconfess the first time I saw the ashes on ash Wednesday while being new to an area with lots of Catholics I wondered what the heck was going on.

Wait until you hear where the ashes are supposed to come from.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I have a theory. Also, I can’t stop poking. I like saying outrageous things or provoking others to do so. I think it is my brain trying to keep from getting bored.

Yes I can understand that too.  This is kind of an alternative to video games for me but I consider it possibly valuable to someone and therefore a "better" choice.  Kind of like coconut oil is "healthy" but only really compared to something worse, like real butter. As far as a theory,  I asd myself, does the word "spectrum" seems to fit somewhere in that context ?  No typos, if you catch my drift.

😎

Edited February 27, 2020 by mfbukowski

[MiserereNobis]

I love the liturgical calendar. Having hours, days, and seasons symbolically connect to sacred events in the life of Christ and the Saints is a way to sanctify time. It reminds us consistently of the Divine. To prepare for the great feast of Easter, we spend 40 days in fasting, obviously derived from Christ's 40 days of fasting, so it reminds us of Him. Sundays during Lent do not count as part of Lent, because Sundays are always, no matter what, feast days that trump any fast day. That's also a wonderful reminder that we celebrate Christ's resurrection on Sunday, and that is such a blessed event that we truly celebrate through feast.

The cycle of feast days/seasons and fast days/seasons also reminds us of the truth that our spirituality ebbs and flows. Sometimes we are close to God, sometimes not. Sometimes He intentionally withdraws to teach us something: the dark night of the soul, the cloud of unknowing.

There should be an LDS liturgical calendar, marking the holy days of LDS history and Christianity  

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Leaving Ahab out of it, couldn't the sin of rudeness (as in being discourteous to someone or showing a lack of consideration to another) be an aspect of breaking the 2nd greatest commandment?  

I suppose. Maybe. But as somebody in this thread has pointed out, Jesus was extremely rude to the scribes and pharisees (called them names,: hypocrites; whited sepulchres; and so on),  but since he was without sin, being rude was obviously not sinful.

[MiserereNobis]

28 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Wait until you hear where the ashes are supposed to come from.

I also think that is a beautiful part of the liturgical tradition. The palm leaves from the previous year's Palm Sunday are burned to create ashes for Ash Wednesday. Again, it is the feast/fast cycle.

[mfbukowski]

25 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Wait until you hear where the ashes are supposed to come from.

Everybody knows that.

From the palm fronds you got last year on Palm Sunday.

And someone criticized the priest for not being more artistic and leaving a smudge instead of a clear cross.

I was an altar boy and "got to" observe this quite closely.   First stick your thumb into a container of ashes.  Then make a cross with your THUMB only, while re-dipping in ashes, 50- 100 times on people's foreheads, while mumbling some Latin, doing this at about a rate of one every two seconds so it doesn't take all day.

Best wishes on getting artistic with that thumb full of ashes.  

 

[Stargazer]

13 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

something worse, like real butter

Stop blaspheming!

Butter vs margarine: which is really healthier?

 

[mfbukowski]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I love the liturgical calendar. Having hours, days, and seasons symbolically connect to sacred events in the life of Christ and the Saints is a way to sanctify time. It reminds us consistently of the Divine. To prepare for the great feast of Easter, we spend 40 days in fasting, obviously derived from Christ's 40 days of fasting, so it reminds us of Him. Sundays during Lent do not count as part of Lent, because Sundays are always, no matter what, feast days that trump any fast day. That's also a wonderful reminder that we celebrate Christ's resurrection on Sunday, and that is such a blessed event that we truly celebrate through feast.

The cycle of feast days/seasons and fast days/seasons also reminds us of the truth that our spirituality ebbs and flows. Sometimes we are close to God, sometimes not. Sometimes He intentionally withdraws to teach us something: the dark night of the soul, the cloud of unknowing.

There should be an LDS liturgical calendar, marking the holy days of LDS history and Christianity  

Sounds good to me!

But remember "fasting" for you is not "fasting" for us

If we fasted for 40 days by our definition, Utah would look like an LA homeless camp with people falling down in the streets. 

 

[mfbukowski]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Stop blaspheming!

Butter vs margarine: which is really healthier?

 

Hey I just chug olive oil.