Lent

[Stargazer]

25 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think even Ahab knows we're dealing with homophones here.

I agree, but it's fun to play around with word games sometimes!

 

[bluebell]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

NyQuil...one of the worst nights of my life, bouncing off walls.  Ticks me off because my kids and husband can knock themselves out when sick and sleep through it.  Isn't that like 25%? 

The old NyQuil with sudafed in it did this to me.  Turns out I react very badly to that stuff.  But since they took that out a few years ago I can use it no problem, which is nice.  I take the pills though; I can't imagine being sick enough to want to drink it.  

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think even Ahab knows we're dealing with homophones here.

I must admit I am a little homophonbic myself.

And that is not a phonebook for the LGBGTQ+ community either

 

[Ahab]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, I think it was you stating unequivocally that low alcohol wine and beer are fine under the Word of Wisdom.

Do tell!

In another thread, perhaps.  One that deals more with the Word of Wisdom. This one is about Lent and you seemed to think I was throwing a bomb when I said what I said so maybe we need to throw this bomb into another thread now.  About the Word of Wisdom.  Again.

[Ahab]

15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Um, beer or wine with any amount of alcohol are not OK to drink, mission rules or not. 

In your opinion.  I gave mine. So there.

Root beer.  Ginger beer.  Cream soda.  Wine made from grapes.  All homemade from scratch using natural ingredients including grains and fruit while trying to not let it all sit around for very long before drinking it up.  

What you think of  beer may not be what I think of beer.  And wine too.  Remember, you need to try to make sure we are talking about the same thing when using the words we are using.

 

[Ahab]

14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

 Well there goes the 5 years without a sin.

Not when I am drinking what I make it as I make it, and some store bought stuff is pretty good too.

[Ahab]

12 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

@Ahab - I am dying of laughter with this comment. My wife probably thinks I've gone mad I'm laughing so hard.

Honestly, there are days where I wonder if you aren't just a professional troll. In nearly every thread you manage to say something that gives me pause.

Do you really drink low alcohol beverages some times? How much alcohol in wine is okay (and when is it no longer wine but grape juice)? Or are you just pulling our legs?????

Yes I drink what are considered non-alcohol versions of wine and beer sometimes which sometimes actually have very small amounts of alcohol in them.  You might be surprised how quickly grains and fruits will ferment when combined with yeast and sugar, so quickly that even if you were to drink it almost immediately after making the drink, classified as either wine or beer, there would already be some fermenting going on and thus some alcohol in them.  The store bought stuff that is labeled as non-alcoholic actually has a small amount of alcohol in it too, but only very small amounts.  Similar to what you would get in some cough syrups and other similar medicines.  What I consider to be very mild drinks, which the Spirit has told me are good and okay to drink.

Some people either just don't understand me or they understand me and still don't agree with me anyway.  Oh well.  It's not like I am the only person on the planet other people do not believe is telling the truth.

[Ahab]

9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Is that what they call "near beer"?  I've never seen it, but somebody told me about it when I was a kid.

When I lived in Israel, one of my hosts gave me a non-alcoholic beer.  It tasted pretty good.

At Mexican stores, you can purchase a non-alcoholic Caribbean malta (try Goya brand).  Get a six-pack.  Very healthy stuff.  Will get you side glances from your ministers or your bishop.

I am impervious to side glances so they can look as much as they want.  I get those looks whether I am drinking store bought root beers with the labels right on them or the beers I make myself in those same color bottles. 

Brown bottles and green bottles seem to get the most looks.  It's the appearance of evil, they have often told me.  Oh well.  I usually just don't drink it around them because I don't want them to think I am an evildoer.

[Ahab]

9 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Is that what they call "near beer"?  I've never seen it, but somebody told me about it when I was a kid.

When I lived in Israel, one of my hosts gave me a non-alcoholic beer.  It tasted pretty good.

At Mexican stores, you can purchase a non-alcoholic Caribbean malta (try Goya brand).  Get a six-pack.  Very healthy stuff.  Will get you side glances from your ministers or your bishop.

I have no problem saying it is actual beer.  It just doesn't have much if any alcoholic in it as most often beers do.  I like it because it's hearty, made from grains and yeast and some sugar.  Soda pop like Dr. Pepper and Coca-Cola are okay, sometimes, too, but I usually prefer a more hearty drink especially with pizza and burgers.  And I like low or no alcohol versions of wine with pasta and pretty much anything Italian or Mediterranean.

[Ahab]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I think even Ahab knows we're dealing with homophones here.

Even me, huh.  Yeah, I do know that.

[Ahab]

7 hours ago, Stargazer said:

This seems to be technically possible, actually.

If one can reduce acts of sin to a defined list -- and if you can't, then you're basically saying that you have no way of knowing what is a sin and what isn't -- then it seems possible that through determination one can eventually be able to avoid sinning. Doesn't mean that one is perfect, naturally, since previous sins would have taken you over the edge into being a sinner, and no amount of repentance can remove that fact.

But I wonder how it would work, in general. Because Christ's atonement only kicks in after we have repented, and each new sin we commit erases that forgiveness, and we must repent once again.  So unless we can say "I'm currently in the state of having committed no sin since [this date]" then we are not forgiven.  I am at this moment trying to determine when was the last time I sinned, and whether I have repented of it yet. Hmmm.

Yes, finally, I'm thankful someone actually caught on to the idea I was trying to share and consider that it is at least possible to not be committing any sins, which in other words would mean they were currently not doing anything their conscious or the Spirit told them was bad.

Once we can get to that point and be good for an hour and then several hours and then a day and days and then a week and then several weeks and a month and several months and then a year and then several years, we're on our way to being eternally good.

Which would still not mean we are perfect.  It's not enough to not do anything bad and to do only good things.  We need to get to the point where we do better and even the best of things including some good things that we may have never done before, or even heard of before.

[MiserereNobis]

13 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

Honestly, there are days where I wonder if you aren't just a professional troll.

I've said this many times: he's the perfect troll because I sincerely believe he doesn't realize he's trolling  

[Tacenda]

I think people are too stressed out as it is to have to think that everything they do might be a sin. Who knows what God believes are sins. I think I understand a little of what Ahab is thinking here, if I'm not right, sorry Ahab.

I think following the first two commandments help with doing the rest. If we follow those then we'll follow the rest. If we are worrying everyday of sinning, those little so-called sins, we will create a person to have high anxiety. I think we should go by our internal moral compass, most have this. 

Edited February 27, 2020 by Tacenda

[Ahab]

43 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I've said this many times: he's the perfect troll because I sincerely believe he doesn't realize he's trolling  

I say provocative things, sometimes, is all.  I am very passionate about what I believe and I share my thoughts and feelings openly and without hesitation mostly because I believe what I believe is good and true and worth sharing with other people and I want others to think about what I am saying and give it some thought.  In some circles I am admired for my teaching methods.  I have been frequently called upon as an instructor in the priesthood quorums I have attended and that is one of my current callings.  Without money, and without price., and you can have all that you want and there will still be plenty left over.  You give the impression that someone like me should be considered a troll.  Eh, if only all trolls were like me. I've heard from some that I think should hide under a bridge and would likely scare some people.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ahab

[Anonymous Mormon]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I say provocative things, sometimes, is all.  I am very passionate about what I believe and I share my thoughts and feelings openly and without hesitation mostly because I believe what I believe is good and true and worth sharing with other people and I want others to think about what I am saying and give it some thought.  In some circles I am admired for my teachings methods.  I have been frequently called upon as an instructor in the priesthood quorums I have attended and that is one of my current callings.  Without money, and without price., and you can have all that you want and there will still be plenty left over.  You give the impression that someone like me should be considered a troll.  Eh, if only all trolls were like me. I've heard from some that I think should hide under a bridge and would likely scare some people.

Well Ahab, I for one appreciate your comments and from what I can tell they are sincere.

One of the things I like best about this board is it gives a wide-variety of opinions from people trying their best to live the gospel (and also a few people who are actively trying to tear it down). I enjoy having your opinion as one of those on the spectrum to consider.

[mfbukowski]

40 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I've said this many times: he's the perfect troll because I sincerely believe he doesn't realize he's trolling  

There is a kind of innocent super egotistical solipsism there that's hard to peg.

It would be rude to talk about him this way but he doesn't notice his own rudeness, so it seems like he is just impervious to rudeness.  He doesn't see it, as if he is blind to it.

Makes me want to keep experimenting, to see if ANYTHING gets through.  Not good, I suppose, to keep poking.

Odd experience 

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

There is a kind of innocent super egotistical solipsism there that's hard to peg.

It would be rude to talk about him this way but he doesn't notice his own rudeness, so it seems like he is just impervious to rudeness.  He doesn't see it, as if he is blind to it.

Makes me want to keep experimenting, to see if ANYTHING gets through.  Not good, I suppose, to keep poking.

Odd experience 

Interesting that people who talk like you did in this post about me think I am rude when you make these comments yourself. I don't think I've ever said you are rude, not because I think you never have been, but because I think that would be a rude thing to say.

But there I went and spoiled it by saying you were rude in that post.  Now I would also say that I have been rude, as I have just shown. But you were rude before I was and I was just pointing that out.  So there.  It's your fault and I was just responding to your rudeness.

I may not be a smart man but I do know what rude is.

 

edited to add:  while I am pointing that out, I might as well add that I feel the same way about arrogance.  I think any person who says someone else is arrogant is the one who is being arrogant.  I don't usually say things like that because I think that would be arrogant.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Ahab

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Yes, finally, I'm thankful someone actually caught on to the idea I was trying to share and consider that it is at least possible to not be committing any sins, which in other words would mean they were currently not doing anything their conscious or the Spirit told them was bad.

Once we can get to that point and be good for an hour and then several hours and then a day and days and then a week and then several weeks and a month and several months and then a year and then several years, we're on our way to being eternally good.

Which would still not mean we are perfect.  It's not enough to not do anything bad and to do only good things.  We need to get to the point where we do better and even the best of things including some good things that we may have never done before, or even heard of before.

As Dory said, "Just keep on swimming!"

This reminds me of the priesthood lesson last month, where the discussion was on being humble, and at some point the stake patriarch (who is in our ward) says something about having "superior humility" and I just lost it. It was apparently a ward "in-joke" and everyone else just gave it a chuckle, but I was nearly rolling on the floor laughing (still laughing about it as I type this). On the next week I was up for getting my temple recommend renewed and along the way I had to tell the stake president counselor that I had to repent from "loud laughter", which he thought was funny, but I wasn't so sure it was all that funny.  Well, no, it was funny. Thing is, I'm pretty sure I hadn't committed any sins for several weeks, and that broke my streak.  Or maybe the streak was just a couple of weeks. 

Or maybe that wasn't a sin.  What is "loud laughter" in the context of sin anyway?

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Or maybe that wasn't a sin.  What is "loud laughter" in the context of sin anyway?

Loud laughter is the hollow laugh, the bray, the meaningless laugh of the soundtrack or the audience responding to prompting cards, or routinely laughing at every remark made, no matter how banal, in a situation comedy. Note that “idle thoughts and . . . excess of laughter” go together in Doctrine and Covenants 88:69.

https://www.ldsliving.com/What-Does-It-Really-Mean-to-Avoid-Light-Mindedness-and-Loud-Laughter/s/90087

As to laughter, Joseph Smith had a hearty laugh that shook his whole frame; but it was a meaningful laugh, a good-humored laugh.

[mfbukowski]

35 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Interesting that people who talk like you did in this post about me think I am rude when you make these comments yourself. I don't think I've ever said you are rude, not because I think you never have been, but because I think that would be a rude thing to say.

But there I went and spoiled it by saying you were rude in that post.  Now I would also say that I have been rude, as I have just shown. But you were rude before I was and I was just pointing that out.  So there.  It's your fault and I was just responding to your rudeness.

I may not be a smart man but I do know what rude is.

 

edited to add:  while I am pointing that out, I might as well add that I feel the same way about arrogance.  I think any person who says someone else is arrogant is the one who is being arrogant.  I don't usually say things like that because I think that would be arrogant.

Well I have been accused of arrogance before, and yes, that is a SIN that I am working on, and I apologize sincerely if I offended you

It is just that I don't know where the limits are with you or where is the boundary is that gives you offence.

I also think you are sincere but just see the world differently than many others.

I only keep poking because I am trying to find that boundary.

I suppose I should stop that. It doesn't feel good to me, and I think maybe the spirit is suggesting to my ego that I am being cruel. Again I apologize.

[mfbukowski]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Loud laughter is the hollow laugh, the bray, the meaningless laugh of the soundtrack or the audience responding to prompting cards, or routinely laughing at every remark made, no matter how banal, in a situation comedy.

Good analogy. Those soundtracks drive me crazy. If you actually listen to them you realized instantly that they are exactly the same for every supposed joke.

[Stargazer]

40 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

There is a kind of innocent super egotistical solipsism there that's hard to peg.

It would be rude to talk about him this way but he doesn't notice his own rudeness, so it seems like he is just impervious to rudeness.  He doesn't see it, as if he is blind to it.

Makes me want to keep experimenting, to see if ANYTHING gets through.  Not good, I suppose, to keep poking.

Odd experience 

My question is this: is being rude a sin?  If so, can you quote me chapter and verse?  Or is it even enumerable?  There are people who go around with long faces feeling guilty, and seem to be proud of it.

Ahab thinks he might not have committed any sins for a particular period of time -- is there something sinful in thinking this?

There's a difference between being rude and speaking one's mind. Those who disagree with someone's opinion might think the other person is being rude when they speak their mind, and is that a sin, too?  Like three fingers pointing back at the person pointing fingers?

The thing is, the Savior spoke his mind on topics the Pharisees had a very fixed notion about, and he disagreed with a lot they had to say. And sometimes he might have said it "rudely" to their way of thinking.  And he was without sin, so perhaps rudeness isn't really a sin.

 

 

 

[mfbukowski]

19 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

My question is this: is being rude a sin?  If so, can you quote me chapter and verse?  Or is it even enumerable?  There are people who go around with long faces feeling guilty, and seem to be proud of it.

Ahab thinks he might not have committed any sins for a particular period of time -- is there something sinful in thinking this?

There's a difference between being rude and speaking one's mind. Those who disagree with someone's opinion might think the other person is being rude when they speak their mind, and is that a sin, too?  Like three fingers pointing back at the person pointing fingers?

The thing is, the Savior spoke his mind on topics the Pharisees had a very fixed notion about, and he disagreed with a lot they had to say. And sometimes he might have said it "rudely" to their way of thinking.  And he was without sin, so perhaps rudeness isn't really a sin.

 

 

 

I guess as usual it's all in the context. That was the boundary I was trying to find with Ahab, and apparently crossed it.

But "whited sepulchers full of dead men's bones" ?

To their faces?

They must have deserved it big time.

Yet would president Nelson say that to an anti-mormon trying to trap him?

 

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Well I have been accused of arrogance before, and yes, that is a SIN that I am working on, and I apologize sincerely if I offended you

Someone offending someone else.  Is that what happens when someone goes on the offensive toward someone else, like when saying something critical, or when pointing out what is perceived to be a fault?  Were you doing that?  I think so.  Apology accepted.

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

It is just that I don't know where the limits are with you or where is the boundary is that gives you offence.

Anything that inspires me to think I should be defensive, as if someone is trying to attack me or my character, to which I feel as if maybe I should try to better explain myself or why I don't think I was doing anything worthy of being attacked.  To be offensive is to attack, is it not?

I usually notice when people are not saying nice things about me, usually when they think I have done something wrong or bad, to which they think they should say something offensive toward me.  I do notice things like that.  I usually just try to not let things like that bother me.

I know best about my intentions and what I had in mind when I do something, and if I feel someone's attack against me is unwarranted, I tend to try to ignore it and turn the other cheek.  And when I feel like I did something wrong, I try to correct that behavior.  That's it, from me.

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I also think you are sincere but just see the world differently than many others.

Definitely.  Than many, many others.  but I could probably say the same thing about you, or anyone else.  We are all different, in some ways, and we all see the world according to our own experiences and our own level of intellect, whatever that is.

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I only keep poking because I am trying to find that boundary.

Between knowing when I am being attacked and when I am not?  When you say nice things about me, with no mention of what you may see as a problem or fault that you think I have, personally, then I think you can feel safe in thinking you are not attacking me.

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I suppose I should stop that. It doesn't feel good to me, and I think maybe the spirit is suggesting to my ego that I am being cruel. Again I apologize.

Okay.  Apology accepted, again.

[Ahab]

27 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

My question is this: is being rude a sin?  If so, can you quote me chapter and verse?  Or is it even enumerable?  There are people who go around with long faces feeling guilty, and seem to be proud of it.

Ahab thinks he might not have committed any sins for a particular period of time -- is there something sinful in thinking this?

There's a difference between being rude and speaking one's mind. Those who disagree with someone's opinion might think the other person is being rude when they speak their mind, and is that a sin, too?  Like three fingers pointing back at the person pointing fingers?

The thing is, the Savior spoke his mind on topics the Pharisees had a very fixed notion about, and he disagreed with a lot they had to say. And sometimes he might have said it "rudely" to their way of thinking.  And he was without sin, so perhaps rudeness isn't really a sin.

 

 

 

Rudeness means different things to different people.  I think of it as being direct but only when being critical of someone else, personally.  I am usually blunt, and some people equate being blunt with rudeness.  I don't though, if while being blunt it was not being critical of someone else, personally.  I can't help if it someone takes offense at my words when I am speaking in general terms, like when a shoe fits and anyone who can wear it chooses to wear it.  Generally, I try to not say anything negative about anyone, personally, even when it seems to me that they have a lot of personal problems that they need to work on.