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Yet Another Lawsuit Against the Church


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Posted
Quote

the poorest of the poor to support a church that actually perpetuates poverty

Would they have to prove this claim?

Eons ago I believe I read a study that demonstrated converting to the Church was correlated to increase in income, likely imo from the emphasis on education and self reliance while coupled with a strong welfare program aimed at getting people financially stable that includes job training.  

Not sure I could find it, but if my memory is accurate it would indicate they can’t actually prove this. 
 

Posted

It is curious that someone can do enough research to file a lawsuit, but then at the same time not come across something that about Separation of Church and State, especially that Courts/Government shy away from  compelling a religion.

Posted

I would sooooo love to read this entire complaint!

I'm sure it would be good for one of these!  :D:rofl::D

Posted
2 minutes ago, PacMan said:

The court should sanction them. Enough is enough. 

Can it?

Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I would sooooo love to read this entire complaint!

I'm sure it would be good for one of these!  :D:rofl::D

 

45 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Oh geez, this is embarrassing for those people.  

 

33 minutes ago, PacMan said:

The court should sanction them. Enough is enough. 

If for no other reason than the deterrence factor. It costs the Church time, energy and money to defend against these frivolous actions, meritless though they may be. Maybe if there were a punitive cost to the plaintiffs, it might hinder if not altogether stop this rash of them. 
 

Edited to add: It’s clear from the fact that they’re doing this pro se that they’re trying to do it on the cheap. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Posted

In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, "It's NOT a tumor RICO!"

It's lawsuits like this that make me wish Utah had enacted much stronger anti-SLAPP laws. 

 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Amulek said:

In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, "It's NOT a tumor RICO!"

It's lawsuits like this that make me wish Utah had enacted much stronger anti-SLAPP laws. 

 

Schwarzenegger? “Not a tumor”? “Anti-SLAPP laws”? You do love sending me to Google, don’t you?

Posted
27 minutes ago, Amulek said:

In the words of Arnold Schwarzenegger, "It's NOT a tumor RICO!"

It's lawsuits like this that make me wish Utah had enacted much stronger anti-SLAPP laws. 

 

Actually it's pronounced "TOO-Mah"

Posted

Case filed 02/10/2020, on 02/11/2020 Judge David Barlow recused himself - this same David Barlow recused, within the last few weeks, himself from another lawsuit where in the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the defendant.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I would sooooo love to read this entire complaint!

I'm sure it would be good for one of these!  :D:rofl::D

Sign up for PACER, it is "free" (yes quotes needed) depending on your usage. Below are some of the things listed in the FACTS section

14. FURTHERMORE, the Church has amassed billions of dollars in savings and investment portfolios, which further proves that tithing and offerings are not being used as the Church claims to its members.

15. The Church forces members to do genealogy work as doctrine and a commandment from God, which is condemned in the BOM as "the things which are pleasing unto the world [but not] unto God and those who are not of the world." (BOM; 1Nephi6:5.)

16. Members are deceived by the Church into believing that genealogy work is necessary to "redeem the dead" (part of the Church's alleged mission), who have died "without law" (Doctrine and Covenants, section 76, verse 72) (i.e., those who have not accepted the Church's doctrine and ordinances while alive).

17. Redemption of the dead is a doctrine that is clearly condemned in the BOM as a "mockery before God" and "putting trust in dead works." (BOM; Moroni 8:23.)

 

73. The Church falsely claimed that it used the tithing and offerings "in worldwide efforts to love God and

neighbor." (20 December 2019 Salt Lake City News Release: "How the Church of Jesus Christ Uses Tithes and

Donations.")

74. The Church falsely claimed that it "is committed to helping the poor and the needy." (Id.)

75. The Church falsely claimed that it had "a global program that primarily benefits those who are not Latter-day Saints," partnering "with many global organizations like the Red Cross to provide assistance." (ld.)

 

78. The Church built a luxurious Conference Center, with a stand that rises above the congregation, so that its
leaders have their own "Rameumpton, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand." (BOM; Alma 31 :21.)

Edited by provoman
Posted

Doesn't sound like this will go anywhere, especially without an attorney representing the plaintiffs.

Claiming that the church is guilty of "racketeering" seems ridiculous.

If a church misleading its members regarding its finances is a crime, they might have case (but I don't think it is).

Posted
4 hours ago, Calm said:

Would they have to prove this claim?

No.  The case will be dismissed.

 

Posted
15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

No.  The case will be dismissed.

 

But if for some reason there was a part of lawsuit against the Church that was deemed significant to go to trial, if the plaintiffs wanted to include a claim like that, would they have to prove it rather than the Church disprove it?

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, provoman said:

17. Redemption of the dead is a doctrine that is clearly condemned in the BOM as a "mockery before God" and "putting trust in dead works." (BOM; Moroni 8:23.)

Wow. That scripture is referring to faith without works being dead (James 2: 17) or performing works without faith. It can also refer to works that are no longer valid like the laws of Moses or laws not supported by God like baptism of infants.  Not redemption of the dead.

As bad as their "facts" are it's hard to believe they are really serious about this lawsuit. I see no other mention of it in the news, so I don't think anyone else is taking it seriously.

Edited by JAHS
Posted
1 hour ago, rockpond said:

Doesn't sound like this will go anywhere, especially without an attorney representing the plaintiffs.

Claiming that the church is guilty of "racketeering" seems ridiculous.

If a church misleading its members regarding its finances is a crime, they might have case (but I don't think it is).

However, there are religious organizations which do engage in racketeering and other major crimes.  However, even in such cases, the govt is very hesitant to go after them.  That was tried on Scientology, and the result was that the govt was penetrated and forced to drop the matter by Scientology operatives.  Religions often get away with organized criminal activity.

Posted
Just now, Traela said:

???  Have they never actually been in the Conference Center?  A majority of the congregation looks down on the stand.

 

I thought the same thing. 

Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Wow. That scripture is referring to faith without works being dead or performing works without faith. (James 2: 17) Not redemption of the dead.

As bad as their "facts" are it's hard to believe they are really serious about this lawsuit. I see no other mention of it in the news, so I don't think anyone else is taking it seriously.

Have you read the full complaint? I could not find reference to it from the washington post, only what smac posted and a reddit post.

Edited by provoman
Posted
42 minutes ago, Calm said:

But if for some reason there was a part of lawsuit against the Church that was deemed significant to go to trial, if the plaintiffs wanted to include a claim like that, would they have to prove it rather than the Church disprove it?

Yes, the plaintiff would have the burden of proof.

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