Yet Another Lawsuit Against the Church

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, provoman said:

[From the Complaint] ... 78. The Church built a luxurious Conference Center, with a stand that rises above the congregation, so that its leaders have their own "Rameumpton, which, being interpreted, is the holy stand." (BOM; Alma 31:21.)

 

9 minutes ago, Traela said:

???  Have they never actually been in the Conference Center?  A majority of the congregation looks down on the stand.

 

And, by the way, what's a "Rameumpton"?  The word is Rameumptom.

When these people give themselves away as being barely literate in "Church-speak" (have they even read the Book of Mormon?), it's hard to take them seriously.

P.S.:  One would think, even if they've never read the Book of Mormon, if they wanted to come across as more than barely literate, they could at least bother to do a ten-second Google search.  Even the misspelling brought up the correct spelling.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[JAHS]

 

7 minutes ago, provoman said:

Have you read the full complaint? I could not find reference to it from the washington post, only what smac posted and a reddit post.

No. Earlier you said PACER is free but the site I went to costs to look at lawsuit files. 

[provoman]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

 

No. Earlier you said PACER is free but the site I went to costs to look at lawsuit files. 

PACER charges quarterly, and it is my experience that one is charged only after a certain amount of page views. For the most part I have only paid for one quarter in the last 20 months.

Edited February 18, 2020 by provoman

[Thinking]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s clear from the fact that they’re doing this pro se that they’re trying to do it on the cheap. 

Or they couldn't find any attorneys to take the case.

[provoman]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

And, by the way, what's a "Rameumpton"?  The word is Rameumptom.

When these people give themselves away as being barely literate in "Church-speak" (have they even read the Book of Mormon?), it's hard to take them seriously.

P.S.:  One would think, even if they've never read the Book of Mormon, if they wanted to come across as more than barely literate, they could at least bother to do a ten-second Google search.  Even the misspelling brought up the correct spelling.

Will have to check the spelling in the complaint. Text recognition was used to copy and paste, the recognition isn't accurate at times.

[rockpond]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Second, all bishops are being told they are not doing enough to seek out the poor and the needy! The Church wants storehouse disbursements to go up! This has been true for at least the past 4 years!

I've been in two bishoprics over the past four years and haven't heard this instruction but I haven't been a Bishop either (just a counselor and exec sec).

[provoman]

Another tid bit, "On January 20, 2020, Plaintiffs offered to settle this matter with the Church, so that the Church could avoid this lawsuit and any subsequent publicity."

Edited February 18, 2020 by provoman

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Traela said:

???  Have they never actually been in the Conference Center?  A majority of the congregation looks down on the stand.

 

True.  And that is just a weird complaint.  It's a pulpit on a rostrum.  Most churches put their pulpit in a place where it is raised and can be seen by the entire congregation.

And not just churches.  The conference center is built like most large performing venues with a raised stage and audience seating that cascades upward.  There really is nothing "rameumpton" about it.  Isn't the most prominent feature the choir seats with the organ pipes behind them?

[JAHS]

25 minutes ago, rockpond said:

2 hours ago, Traela said:

Have they never actually been in the Conference Center?  A majority of the congregation looks down on the stand.

 

True.  And that is just a weird complaint.  It's a pulpit on a rostrum.  Most churches put their pulpit in a place where it is raised and can be seen by the entire congregation.

And not just churches.  The conference center is built like most large performing venues with a raised stage and audience seating that cascades upward.  There really is nothing "rameumpton" about it.  Isn't the most prominent feature the choir seats with the organ pipes behind them?

Regardless of whether it is a Rameumptom or not, regardless of how it is made, what is more important is what is preached from it. Church leaders are preaching of Christ whereas those in the Book of Mormon were denying the Christ.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Or they couldn't find any attorneys to take the case.

Very possible. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

And, by the way, what's a "Rameumpton"?  The word is Rameumptom.

When these people give themselves away as being barely literate in "Church-speak" (have they even read the Book of Mormon?), it's hard to take them seriously.

P.S.:  One would think, even if they've never read the Book of Mormon, if they wanted to come across as more than barely literate, they could at least bother to do a ten-second Google search.  Even the misspelling brought up the correct spelling.

Stay tuned for another episode of the Beverly Hillbillies Go to Court. 

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Or they couldn't find any attorneys to take the case.

I wonder, why not?

P.S.: Kay Burningham already is busy, so ...

Edited February 18, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[The Nehor]

Awwwww.....how cute. Baby’s first litigation.

[hearserve]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

I've been in two bishoprics over the past four years and haven't heard this instruction but I haven't been a Bishop either (just a counselor and exec sec).

I was released as bishop just over two years ago, and we received that counsel from our SP back then.  

[smac97]

9 hours ago, rockpond said:

Quote

Second, all bishops are being told they are not doing enough to seek out the poor and the needy! The Church wants storehouse disbursements to go up! This has been true for at least the past 4 years!

I've been in two bishoprics over the past four years and haven't heard this instruction but I haven't been a Bishop either (just a counselor and exec sec).

Our ward's (now released) bishop attended an in-person training with an apostle a bit over three years ago and received this counsel.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited February 18, 2020 by smac97

[rockpond]

9 hours ago, hearserve said:

I was released as bishop just over two years ago, and we received that counsel from our SP back then.  

 

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Our ward's (now released) bishop attended an in-person training with an apostle a bit over three years ago and received this counsel.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Thanks.  That's great.  I'll assume my bishops received it as well.

[Amulek]

Quote

WHEREFORE, Plaintiffs pray for the following relief:

[...]

An order prohibiting the Church from claiming that the tithing and offerings members give to the Church have had any benefit for those who are not members of the Church.

Our stake recently changed assignments, and our bishop is now the transient bishop. I guess I should tell him we can stop helping people who walk in off the street now. 

 

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Our stake recently changed assignments, and our bishop is now the transient bishop. I guess I should tell him we can stop helping people who walk in off the street now. 

 

The transient bishop is such a cool thing.  Once when I was covering for my bishop, I got to take one of those calls.  It felt great to be able to go meet and help a church member who ran into some problems while passing through town.  I was able to use fast offering funds to put him into a motel for the night and give him money for food.

[topcougar]

I also read the complaint. I would summarize the complaint as 1)  doctrinally shallow and  2) woefully inadequate from a legal standpoint. This might obtain some exmo play from those who are not well versed in doctrine. They will get even less mileage in the Court. This complaint  as worded does not state a legally cognizable claim for relief. This will be another field day for Kirton McConkie or whatever firm ends up defending for the Church.

Edited February 18, 2020 by topcougar
LIkely different person.

[Amulek]

33 minutes ago, rockpond said:

It felt great to be able to go meet and help a church member who ran into some problems while passing through town.

I guess maybe it varies by region, but here in Texas I've only known a handful of circumstances where the person asking for assistance was a member. The overwhelming majority of cases I have seen have involved non members. 

 

[Thinking]

23 hours ago, smac97 said:

1. The three plaintiffs are Lynnette Cook (Orem), Rodney Jay Vessels (Orem), and Julie Little Taggart (Salt Lake City).

There is a Rodney Jay Vessels that graduated from the J. Reuben Clark Law School about 40 years ago. I wonder if he now lives in Orem.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Thinking

[hearserve]

In our area, we have multiple bishops assigned as transient bishops, with a former bishop who screens incoming calls and requests, and forwards the calls to one of the bishops on call.  The bishop assigned from our stake told me he would get a dozen or more calls a night that he had to handle.  This on top of his own ward responsibilities.  The assigned bishops rotated their schedules, something like two weeks on, one week off.  He told me before his last rotation he had a full blown anxiety attack due to the stress of handling so many needs.  A large percentage of calls was from non- members.

[topcougar]

A further update. The plaintiffs are all followers of Chris Nemelka. https://www.cityweekly.net/utah/sealed-fate/Content?oid=2152358&storyPage=3 

[topcougar]

19 minutes ago, Thinking said:

There is a Rodney Jay Vessels that graduated from the J. Reuben Clark Law School about 40 years ago. I wonder if he now lives in Orem.

Mr. Vessels has previously represented Chris Nemelka. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, topcougar said:

A further update. The plaintiffs are all followers of Chris Nemelka. https://www.cityweekly.net/utah/sealed-fate/Content?oid=2152358&storyPage=3 

That puts a different spin on it and explains the use of the BoM.