cacheman Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 15 hours ago, JAHS said: ....So most are welfare farms but it looks like the big one Deseret Cattle and Citrus (and perhaps a few others) is more of a commercial investment. Do you have a reference for the bolded portion? I can't seem to find any published numbers comparing the two. But, I'm aware that the church has significantly decreased the number of welfare farms over the last 30 years. At the same time, it seems that we're hearing more frequently of new for-profit farms being purchased (this is not confirmed, but just based on my personal impressions).
MiserereNobis Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 8 hours ago, mfbukowski said: That should be the name of my new blog. "Indelible Mark" How about “inedible Mark”? 1
JAHS Posted February 14, 2020 Author Posted February 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, cacheman said: Do you have a reference for the bolded portion? I can't seem to find any published numbers comparing the two. But, I'm aware that the church has significantly decreased the number of welfare farms over the last 30 years. At the same time, it seems that we're hearing more frequently of new for-profit farms being purchased (this is not confirmed, but just based on my personal impressions). Don't have any references for that. It's probably based on my experience of having worked on so many different welfare farms in the past.
cacheman Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Ahab said: One of the benefits of raising cattle on land that isn't good for farming is that the cows will eventually make that land good for farming. Lots of cow poo will do that. One of the best fertilizers and things to add for doing that job. Lots and lots of cow poo. The more the better. And until then it helps the grass to grow better too until the land can eventually also be used for farming. If only it were that simple. Keep in mind that the only organisms in this scenario that can create biomass out of thin air are the plants. When a cow eats a plant, a portion of the nutrients and energy are used by the cow for growth and metabolism. The other portion is deposited as processed grass microbes. This adds nutrients and organic matter to the soil, but not as much as the cow took. The only way to improve that soil would be to being in external inputs. You could either overstock it and bring in feed that was produced elsewhere, or you could bring in manure or other organic material from off site. Simply grazing rangeland or pasture doesn't build soil. It is, however a way to maintain soil with reduced inputs. Edited February 14, 2020 by cacheman Autocorrect error 1
cacheman Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, JAHS said: Don't have any references for that. It's probably based on my experience of having worked on so many different welfare farms in the past. The welfare farms that I worked on in the 80's are all privately owned now. I'm just basing my claim that the number of welfare farms is decreasing on news stories where church officials provide the number of farms. In the 80's they talk about 150 welfare farms, where now they are saying approximately 50 farms. I can find references when I'm near a computer if you'd like.
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: I have a memory of my grandfather telling me President Romney used to say it and he was in a position to know. It is possible I conflated that with reading you saying it here somehow. Memory is weird. It is also possible that stake president got it from President Romney or someone who said it to him first. If my memory is right President Romney did not coin the phrase but quoted it. Then again I thought I remembered reading it in an old General Conference talk but I cannot find it. Then again it is odd that the commodity was the exact same thing to draw out that exact same quote which makes me doubt my memory. I was active in at least one of the threads in which you said it and I did not mention the memory and I think I would have because I overshare a lot. So what did my grandpa actually say? I think I wrote it in my mission journal which predates learning it from you. I may have a lot of reading ahead of me to find it what it was.....assuming I remember right that I wrote it down. I apologize if I did steal it from you. No apologies needed!!! I would be very interested if it is a Romneyism. Edited February 14, 2020 by Bernard Gui
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, cacheman said: The welfare farms that I worked on in the 80's are all privately owned now. I'm just basing my claim that the number of welfare farms is decreasing on news stories where church officials provide the number of farms. In the 80's they talk about 150 welfare farms, where now they are saying approximately 50 farms. I can find references when I'm near a computer if you'd like. We used to have a cattle ranch here in Puyallup WA. Part of it was sold (to the school district IIRC), and part of it is now a large recreation property attached to a stake center. I’ve worked on several welfare farms that raised sugar beets (Utah), corn and asparagus (Illinois), apples (New Mexico), and potatoes (Washington). Thinning the sugar beets is awful work. Once in a while the Seattle temple has vegetables in the temple gardens. Edited February 14, 2020 by Bernard Gui 1
bluebell Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, cacheman said: The welfare farms that I worked on in the 80's are all privately owned now. I'm just basing my claim that the number of welfare farms is decreasing on news stories where church officials provide the number of farms. In the 80's they talk about 150 welfare farms, where now they are saying approximately 50 farms. I can find references when I'm near a computer if you'd like. The church's welfare farm that was in my home stake is now owned by Kanye West and Kim Kardashian.
rockpond Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, bluebell said: The church's welfare farm that was in my home stake is now owned by Kanye West and Kim Kardashian. Seriously? That's funny.
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: How about “inedible Mark”? Not if one is a humanitarian.
The Nehor Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 I miss the welfare apple orchard we had in the area when I was a kid. 2
stemelbow Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 How many ranches across the country does the Church own now? A lot? I wonder if they are trying to monopolize the industry. Maybe the Church is trying to enforce upon humanity the eating meat sparingly teaching? It's not really buying up these ranches to make more money, but to shut down meat production? I'm just kidding. The Church would never put scriptural teaching above making money. We all know that.
The Nehor Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, stemelbow said: How many ranches across the country does the Church own now? A lot? I wonder if they are trying to monopolize the industry. Maybe the Church is trying to enforce upon humanity the eating meat sparingly teaching? It's not really buying up these ranches to make more money, but to shut down meat production? I'm just kidding. The Church would never put scriptural teaching above making money. We all know that. I am pretty sure you are not royalty so why are you using the royal “we”?
stemelbow Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I am pretty sure you are not royalty so why are you using the royal “we”? Don't be silly, The Nehor, you are very well aware the Church is not buying up these ranches to curb the production of meat, favoring latter-day scriptural teaching. Or do you really think the Church is buying these up to slow down or stop meat production? Do you really think they are sacrificing their money for a cause greater than making money?
bluebell Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 45 minutes ago, rockpond said: Seriously? That's funny. Seriously! It’s so weird!
cacheman Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: We used to have a cattle ranch here in Puyallup WA. Part of it was sold (to the school district IIRC), and part of it is now a large recreation property attached to a stake center. I’ve worked on several welfare farms that raised sugar beets (Utah), corn and asparagus (Illinois), apples (New Mexico), and potatoes (Washington). Thinning the sugar beets is awful work. Once in a while the Seattle temple has vegetables in the temple gardens. Maybe we worked on the same sugar beet farm in Utah (up north). I earned most of my mission money working for a former church welfare dairy/row crop farm that was sold to a private owner.
Kenngo1969 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: How about “inedible Mark”? He wouldn't want to become Hermano Bernardo, the Humanitarian's next meal! 1
mfbukowski Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: How about “inedible Mark”? 😜😂😆 Definitely too bitter! 1
JAHS Posted February 14, 2020 Author Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: We used to have a cattle ranch here in Puyallup WA. Part of it was sold (to the school district IIRC), and part of it is now a large recreation property attached to a stake center. I’ve worked on several welfare farms that raised sugar beets (Utah), corn and asparagus (Illinois), apples (New Mexico), and potatoes (Washington). Thinning the sugar beets is awful work. Once in a while the Seattle temple has vegetables in the temple gardens. I worked in the sugar beet fields, thinning beets and pulling weeds; picking corn; bottling honey, a chicken ranch(smelled awful), and a pig ranch (smelled even worse)
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, JAHS said: I worked in the sugar beet fields, thinning beets and pulling weeds; picking corn; bottling honey, a chicken ranch(smelled awful), and a pig ranch (smelled even worse) Yep! As a young girl during the Depression, my mother's job was to take care of the chicken coop and gather the eggs. She only had one pair of shoes that had to serve for daily wear, church, school, etc. So, she did her work in her bare feet. Not for the faint of heart. It steeled her for life.
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 2 hours ago, cacheman said: Maybe we worked on the same sugar beet farm in Utah (up north). I earned most of my mission money working for a former church welfare dairy/row crop farm that was sold to a private owner. We were in the Pleasant Grove area.
Bernard Gui Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: I miss the welfare apple orchard we had in the area when I was a kid. I lived in Los Alamos. The apple orchard was on the south side of Albuquerque, 110 miles away. Many times late frosts killed the blossoms, but we still had to drive down to weed, prune, and irrigate.
stemelbow Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 46 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: I lived in Los Alamos. The apple orchard was on the south side of Albuquerque, 110 miles away. Many times late frosts killed the blossoms, but we still had to drive down to weed, prune, and irrigate. We had two peach farms where we were, and I loved going and cleaning up, picking and helping out.
Tacenda Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: We used to have a cattle ranch here in Puyallup WA. Part of it was sold (to the school district IIRC), and part of it is now a large recreation property attached to a stake center. I’ve worked on several welfare farms that raised sugar beets (Utah), corn and asparagus (Illinois), apples (New Mexico), and potatoes (Washington). Thinning the sugar beets is awful work. Once in a while the Seattle temple has vegetables in the temple gardens. (bold mine) First paid job at 12, lol! Edited February 14, 2020 by Tacenda
JAHS Posted February 14, 2020 Author Posted February 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: We used to have a cattle ranch here in Puyallup WA. Part of it was sold (to the school district IIRC), and part of it is now a large recreation property attached to a stake center. I’ve worked on several welfare farms that raised sugar beets (Utah), corn and asparagus (Illinois), apples (New Mexico), and potatoes (Washington). Thinning the sugar beets is awful work. Once in a while the Seattle temple has vegetables in the temple gardens. I remember working what seemed like hour on a sugar beet row and I would look up and the end of my row was still a mile away. 2
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