Thinking Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Both the Deseret News and the Salt Lake Tribune reported about this. Read the articles for yourself. IMO the two articles paint different pictures of BYU's involvement.
Amulek Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 BYU has been involved in this competition for years, and they were committed to hosting the event again this year. However, roughly a month before registration was to begin, the NDCA changed their rules on how a "couple" is defined. Those weren't the rules back when the university agreed to host the event; the national dance organizations dropped that little change ex post facto and at the last minute. I can appreciate the difficult position the school was put in because of this, and I'm pleased to see that they were able to make things work. 3
Kenngo1969 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 "Hooray! We don't have to engage in actual lawfare to strong-arm organizations we don't like into changing their policies! Now, we can simply employ the mere threat of lawfare!" Or something. Of course, neither Brigham Young University nor the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are going to get any credit for this enlightened decision. Many opponents of the university and of the Church of Jesus Christ aren't likely to rest until the Church changes its doctrines on chastity and marriage.
katherine the great Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Of course, neither Brigham Young University nor the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are going to get any credit for this enlightened decision. Many opponents of the university and of the Church of Jesus Christ aren't likely to rest until the Church changes its doctrines on chastity and marriage. Lol! Ken! Many traditional cultures don't even allow men and women to dance together and I'm sure the dance team admin knows that. This isn't a matter of chastity or marriage. It was likely a practical decision given the short time frame and they will give it some more thought for the future after the competition is over. 3
The Nehor Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Tevye joined in defying tradition by dancing with his wife instead of another man. Now we defy tradition the other way. The world keeps on turning. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, katherine the great said: Lol! Ken! Many traditional cultures don't even allow men and women to dance together and I'm sure the dance team admin knows that. This isn't a matter of chastity or marriage. It was likely a practical decision given the short time frame and they will give it some more thought for the future after the competition is over. Largely, I agree, but I still don't think the university or its sponsoring institution is going to get any credit for the decision. And in today's culture of moral hyper-outrage, in which people and institutions must agree with me in every particular about absolutely everything, or those people and institutions must be marginalized, isolated, demonized, and hounded from "polite" society entirely, eventually, even arenas that don't have anything to do with same-sex relationships (such as sports) are going to be affected so that religiously-oriented schools such as BYU likely are going to have to leave organizations such as the National Collegiate Athletic Association and form their own similar association(s). Edited January 22, 2020 by Kenngo1969
katherine the great Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: religiously-oriented schools such as BYU likely are going to have to leave organizations such as the National Collegiate Athletic Association and form their own similar association(s). With all the money BYU football brings in to the school? And give up our revered rivalry against the U? Anything is possible but I admit that would surprise me.
let’s roll Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Is this thread an example of pettifogging? 😎 After all this is a dance competition, correct? How is this different from men’s doubles and women’s doubles in tennis?
strappinglad Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, let’s roll said: Is this thread an example of pettifogging? 😎 After all this is a dance competition, correct? How is this different from men’s doubles and women’s doubles in tennis? It may have to do with the amount of time they spend in each others arms. Similar efforts are aimed at professional ice skating competitions .
JAHS Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, let’s roll said: Is this thread an example of pettifogging? 😎 After all this is a dance competition, correct? How is this different from men’s doubles and women’s doubles in tennis? In doubles tennis you have no clue if they are gay or not. In ballroom dancing you can be about 100% sure they are gay and are expressing the behavior of being gay.
katherine the great Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, let’s roll said: Is this thread an example of pettifogging? 😎 After all this is a dance competition, correct? How is this different from men’s doubles and women’s doubles in tennis? My brother plays doubles. Just for fun, I'm going to recommend he dip and lift his partner in their next game! (thanks for the idea!)
katherine the great Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, strappinglad said: It may have to do with the amount of time they spend in each others arms. Hmmm. Does BYU have a wrestling team? 2
let’s roll Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, JAHS said: In doubles tennis you have no clue if they are gay or not. In ballroom dancing you can be about 100% sure they are gay and are expressing the behavior of being gay. And why would that make any difference? Would it give them a competitive advantage?
JAHS Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, let’s roll said: 1 hour ago, JAHS said: In doubles tennis you have no clue if they are gay or not. In ballroom dancing you can be about 100% sure they are gay and are expressing the behavior of being gay. And why would that make any difference? Would it give them a competitive advantage? Not really. I am just referring to the policy in the Church that being gay is not a sin but acting on it is and in our culture two gay people dancing together might qualify as acting on it in some people's minds.
provoman Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) nvm Edited January 22, 2020 by provoman
provoman Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 24 minutes ago, JAHS said: Not really. I am just referring to the policy in the Church that being gay is not a sin but acting on it is and in our culture two gay people dancing together might qualify as acting on it in some people's minds. It does not matter what someone thinks. And two people of the same sex dancing together does not equal homosexual behavior. 2
JAHS Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, provoman said: It does not matter what someone thinks. And two people of the same sex dancing together does not equal homosexual behavior. Like I said "In some people's minds". Apparently not yours.
LoudmouthMormon Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, provoman said: And two people of the same sex dancing together does not equal homosexual behavior. Was I the only one who snorted out loud at this? [whispering] It depends on the sort of dancing... [/whispering] Edited January 22, 2020 by LoudmouthMormon
Tacenda Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 5 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Largely, I agree, but I still don't think the university or its sponsoring institution is going to get any credit for the decision. And in today's culture of moral hyper-outrage, in which people and institutions must agree with me in every particular about absolutely everything, or those people and institutions must be marginalized, isolated, demonized, and hounded from "polite" society entirely, eventually, even arenas that don't have anything to do with same-sex relationships (such as sports) are going to be affected so that religiously-oriented schools such as BYU likely are going to have to leave organizations such as the National Collegiate Athletic Association and form their own similar association(s). To the bold, just like they had to leave the BSA. Also, to the comment you said that you don't think BYU will get any credit for their decision, here's mine...hip, hip hooray!!👏
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, provoman said: And two people of the same sex dancing together does not equal homosexual behavior. I have lived places where Church-sponsored YSA dances consisted entirely of people dancing with partners of the same sex (for cultural reasons). I also lived in one area of the Church that was so predominantly male that single men at stake dances had two options: stand and watch the married couples or dance with each other. So we danced with each other. Edited January 23, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan 1
carbon dioxide Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 BYU honor code is for students and not visitors. We can pretty much say that most of the players from other college teams drink, have sex, and do other things that would violate the honor code. But they can come on campus and compete. I don't see anything big here. Now if BYU allowed students in a same sex dance, that would be news.
katherine the great Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Of course, neither Brigham Young University nor the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are going to get any credit for this enlightened decision. Many opponents of the university and of the Church of Jesus Christ aren't likely to rest until the Church changes its doctrines on chastity and marriage. It should please you to know that one of my high school friends who is now a respected biology professor (and apparently gay) posted an article about this on her facebook page with a big thumbs up. 😊 1
katherine the great Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said: BYU honor code is for students and not visitors. We can pretty much say that most of the players from other college teams drink, have sex, and do other things that would violate the honor code. But they can come on campus and compete. I don't see anything big here. Now if BYU allowed students in a same sex dance, that would be news. Not really the same thing as the honor code, but BYU ballroom dance team does have something of a costume "modesty" policy that they enforce for visiting dancers.
Kenngo1969 Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, katherine the great said: It should please you to know that one of my high school friends who is now a respected biology professor (and apparently gay) posted an article about this on her facebook page with a big thumbs up. 😊 It does, provided she does not expect the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to alter fundamental doctrine regarding chastity and marriage. Alas, I fear she is less the rule than she is the exception. While we used to live in a world in which a diversity of opinions regarding such things was not only tolerated but welcomed, that has become much less true in recent years than it was in the past. Edited January 23, 2020 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 8 hours ago, katherine the great said: With all the money BYU football brings in to the school? And give up our revered rivalry against the U? Anything is possible but I admit that would surprise me. I'm not saying that BYU, along with other religiously-oriented schools, will give up broader athletic competition opportunities of its own accord, I'm saying that, essentially, it will be forced to do so by the PC Police and their informants.
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