"We're threatened with the prospect of a Mormon mayor." - Rocky Anderson

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

Major click bait win for the Trib.  

Kudos to the author for writing it and the Tribune for publishing it. But the stupid remark from Anderson was such an easy mark that anybody could have done it. 

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, aussieguy55 said:

When I did a search for the most gerrymandered states in the US  Utah was among them.  https://rantt.com/the-top-10-most-gerrymandered-states-in-america/   America is a democracy?. Yes right.

We're not a democracy.  We are a Democratic Republic.  The founding fathers specific chose not to do a democracy, seeing as how it's basically just mob rule and turned out really poorly for the Greeks.

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

My favorite line from him was when he said smoking marijuana must have put Kamala Harris in a space-time warp. It was in reference to the interview she did wherein she was cackling about smoking weed while listening to two rappers whom she named. Thing is, the rappers weren’t even around at the time she said she was doing the weed. 

She and Joe Biden have been everywhere, it seems, including in various time warps!   

    

[MiserereNobis]

53 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

She and Joe Biden have been everywhere, it seems, including in various time warps!   

    

"Let's do the time warp again!"

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

She and Joe Biden have been everywhere, it seems, including in various time warps!   

    

😂

[Scott Lloyd]

I didn’t realize a “Mormon mayor” of Salt Lake City had become such an outlandish prospect. If it is enough to send the likes of Anderson into a tizzy, I say it’s high time we had one, just to keep him and his ilk humble. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Hi SLC!  I see you're still SLC.

Whiplash time: Over here in Colorado, we had not just a Mayor, but an entire Governor of the whole state run, campaign, and get elected, before anyone even realized he was gay and had a husband.  Seriously - I found out the week after the election when "US elects first gay governor" made international news.  I had no clue, and I had friends and sources on both sides of the political aisle to argue and debate with in the months leading up to the election.  Neither side made an issue out of it.

Can you imagine what it would be like, to see that sort of intentional "we don't care"-ism applied to someone's membership in the restored church in Utah?

[Jake Starkey]

We are a secular nation, and this religion bashing is not worthy of our heritage.

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, aussieguy55 said:

When I did a search for the most gerrymandered states in the US  Utah was among them.  https://rantt.com/the-top-10-most-gerrymandered-states-in-america/   America is a democracy?. Yes right.

Countries who elect their highest official (prime minister) through a system where a mere 83 people get to decide who that will be isn't really in a position to criticize US political organization on the basis of how democratic it is. So, how many people actually voted for Scott Morrison in 2018?  If I am not mistaken, 45 voters made Morrison Prime Minister of Australia.  Where's the democracy in that?  Yes, I get it that there was a national election in 2019 that made it possible for him to remain PM, but how many people actually got to cast a direct vote in 2019 for the leader of Australia, a country of over 25 million people?  An interestingly small number: 107,000.  The number of electors who reside in Morrison's constituency in New South Wales.

By the way, I am not endorsing gerrymandering.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Stargazer

[aussieguy55]

The PM is elected by the party that wins most seats in Parliament. The Liberal party won a one or two seat majority and the over all two party preferred vote was 51% for the Liberals across Australia  and 49% for the Labor Party. If the PM plays up the party can replace him by simply having a party room vote. The districts are drawn up by an independent commission. Morrison can be replaced as PM.He represents a seat which he will not lose unless voted out by those who voted in that seat. We do not have anything like the electoral college.

[Stargazer]

18 minutes ago, aussieguy55 said:

The PM is elected by the party that wins most seats in Parliament. The Liberal party won a one or two seat majority and the over all two party preferred vote was 51% for the Liberals across Australia  and 49% for the Labor Party. If the PM plays up the party can replace him by simply having a party room vote. The districts are drawn up by an independent commission. Morrison can be replaced as PM.He represents a seat which he will not lose unless voted out by those who voted in that seat. We do not have anything like the electoral college.

Yes, I am familiar with the Westminster system, including how it is organized in both the UK and Australia.  In 2019 the 107,000 electors in the Cook constituency in New South Wales got to vote on whether Scott Morrison should be Prime Minister.  Everyone else only had a voice in this by way of the party-line vote in their own districts.  As you know, the PM is always chosen based on how "safe" his or her seat is.  In effect, the PM comes from a highly gerrymandered electoral district -- simply because it would be very inconvenient if the party leader lost his own election in his own constituency.  If that happened, the national election would be up the spout, would it not?  Because the party leader would no longer be an MP.  I'm not claiming that the PM's district has salamander-shaped boundaries.  I'm just saying that there's no chance he or she is going to lose to another party in his or her own district.  Gerrymandering is the process of drawing electoral district borders so that a "safe" seat is created.  So a district that is naturally "safe" is effectively gerrymandered already.  Gerrymandering is actually only bad when it is used to disenfranchise certain segments of the population (which may be much of the time, admittedly). Gerrymandering could also be used to produce a district that might easily "swing" between different parties, too, though this isn't usually what happens.

In my opinion, what you have is worse than the electoral college -- which is not actually a bad system.  By and large, the outcome of the electoral college vote mostly accurately reflects the presidential popular vote.  And where it doesn't track it exactly, it isn't all that far off. Trump didn't get a majority of the popular vote in 2016, sure, but neither did Hillary.  She only got a plurality, i.e. marginally more than Trump.  The system has worked pretty well for over 200 years -- it only gets a bad rap when the losers can't handle their defeat.

I do like it that Australia has instant run-off voting, by the way!  I'd like to see that happen in the US for many elections.

But this "party room vote" is exactly what I was talking about when I wrote that 45 people put Morrison into office in 2018.  And likewise in the UK in this current year, 92,000 people made Boris Johnson the leader of the UK government. All without a national election.  Which is quite amazingly undemocratic. In my humble opinion.

[Robert F. Smith]

14 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

It didn't work too well for Hillary either.

This will be an interesting election 

Yeh, but who are the "deplorables" this time around?

[stemelbow]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I didn’t realize a “Mormon mayor” of Salt Lake City had become such an outlandish prospect. If it is enough to send the likes of Anderson into a tizzy, I say it’s high time we had one, just to keep him and his ilk humble. 

I think wishing for a non-Mormon mayor vs wishing for a Mormon one comes out of the same mode of thinking.  He might come back saying, "well the Mormon politicians aren't humble, so why would it keep me and my ilk humble if it hasn't kept them humble?" 

Whatever the case, he would have done much better in his response to admit the word choice was poor.  

Also, I'm sure you won't get any excoriating for the same sounding comment as he made, so you're good...at least around here.  

[Jake Starkey]

Rocky did not think what he said through before he said it.

And the rationale behind the statement is silly.  If I live in St. George, Utah, I would expect LDS candidates.  If in Baltimore, at least some Catholics.  Jasper, Texas it would be most Baptist or Methodist people.

[Scott Lloyd]

25 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I think wishing for a non-Mormon mayor vs wishing for a Mormon one comes out of the same mode of thinking.  He might come back saying, "well the Mormon politicians aren't humble, so why would it keep me and my ilk humble if it hasn't kept them humble?" 

Whatever the case, he would have done much better in his response to admit the word choice was poor.  

Also, I'm sure you won't get any excoriating for the same sounding comment as he made, so you're good...at least around here.  

Until I saw this remark from Anderson, I didn’t even care about the religious affiliation of the Salt Lake mayor. 

And I don’t truly care about it even now. It was just a sardonic comment I made in reaction to the bigotry in his remark. 

So no, it’s not the same mode of thinking on my part. 

[nuclearfuels]

On 9/5/2019 at 9:22 AM, smac97 said:

I did not know Rocky Anderson was . . . like this.

I think it is appropriate to push back about this sort of thing.  Not to incite an online Outrage Mob.  Not to virtue signal.  But publicly addressing and repudiating open bigotry is an appropriate thing to do.  Kudos to Michelle Quist (the author of the above opinion piece), and the Trib, for addressing it.

There's only so much accomadating a person can give to the scum of the earth.

 

[Jake Starkey]

Oh, I don't think the Rocky people are the scum of the earth, nuclearfuels: that's kind of harsh, yes.

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said:

Oh, I don't think the Rocky people are the scum of the earth, nuclearfuels: that's kind of harsh, yes.

Amen.

[smac97]

Rocky Anderson just published a response in the Trib: 

Quote

Rocky Anderson: Concerns about special interest domination misrepresented as religious ‘bigotry’
By Rocky Anderson | Special to The Tribune  

Brigham Young, with the support of the Territorial Legislature, assumed autocratic control of Utah Territory under the guise of speaking on behalf of God.

Boy!  Yesterday Rocky was insisting that his remarks had "nothing to do with {religious} bigotry."

Today, he starts his article by criticizing the territorial governor who took office 168 years ago in 1851.

And this is relevant to the upcoming mayoral race, but not because of Brigham Young's religion.  

Clear enough!

Quote

At that time, the Legislature was all-Mormon, juries were all-Mormon, the courts assigned by the Legislature to hear all civil and criminal matters were all-Mormon (the federal judges sent to set things right having been run out of town), and non-Mormons were denied the right to own property.

Ah.  So this history lesson about the religious affiliations of 19th-century legislatures and juries is relevant to the upcoming mayoral race, but this still has "nothing to do with {religious} bigotry."

Got it.

Quote

When a “Gentile,” Dr. Robinson, sought to build a hospital, the police destroyed his workshop and he was later murdered at 300 South and Main Street. (Book suggestion: “Reminiscences of Early Utah” by Robert Baskin.)

Things have gotten better in some ways. Salt Lake City is now a far more diverse place. We haven’t had a Mountain Meadows Massacre since those days. The president of the Mormon Church is not advocating slavery as being divinely inspired, as Young did. And, now, only nine out of 10 members of the Utah Legislature are Mormons.

Again, none of this has to do with religious bigotry.

None of it.

Quote

Some things have become worse. Back then, courageous, independent journalists were publishing newspapers, challenging the nonsense being published by the Deseret News and the abuses and domination by the Mormon Church.

Wow.  He's practically foaming at the mouth.  

Quote

Now, what used to be our major independent newspaper has been decimated because of the conspiracy between the Deseret News and the greedy venture capitalists who owned The Salt Lake Tribune before selling the skeletal remains of the Tribune to its first and current Mormon owner, Paul Huntsman.

And now . . . conspiracy theories.

I'm just laughing at him now.

Quote

Recently I posted on Facebook about my concern that “Now, we’re threatened with the prospect of a Mormon mayor (Luz Escamilla), who seems willing to do the bidding of the church, the developers, and the bank where she has been employed (and which employs so many elected officials – and not because they’re bankers!).” I then provided concrete examples of Escamilla’s actions, about which anyone should be concerned.

Instead of reporting about my entire post, or even my entire first sentence, Michelle Quist (“Rocky throws a bigoted attack at a candidate for mayor”), twisted what I wrote out of context, labeling it religious bigotry. My obvious concern was not about religion. It was about continued domination of our government.

Um, yes, Rocky.  You "obvious concern" was about religion.

Quote

Quist’s big lie is that I attacked someone because of her religion. I don’t care about anyone’s religious affiliation.

Right.  That's why you specifically cited Escamilla's religious affiliation as the basis for her being illegally/unduly influenced by the Church.

That's why you started this article by railing against 19th-century Latter-day Saints.

That's why you are accusing the Trib of conspiring with the Church (through the D-News, apparently), and again doing so by specifically pointing to an individual's religious affiliation (Paul Huntsman).

This is you not "car{ing} about anyone's religious affiliation"?

Really?

Quote

The concern I expressed in my post was about the control of our government by special interests, contrary to the public interest. (Mayor DeeDee Corradini was not Mormon, but still caved to the church’s demand to purchase a block of our city’s Main Street.)

That doesn't explain why Rocky specifically called out Escamilla's religious affiliation.

If he doesn't care about Escamilla's religious affiliation, why did he specifically and emphatically point to it in his Facebook post?

Quote

I don’t trust that a candidate like Escamilla will not continue to remain silent about such things as the cruelty and bigotry of her church toward members of the LGBTQ community.

Wow!  So he does "care about anyone’s religious affiliation" after all.

Read the whole thing for yourself.

I think he may be losing his grip.  Seriously.  He may be having some sort of breakdown.  A seasoned attorney/politician would not, I think, volitionally throw a public hissy fit in this way.  Nor, I think, would a seasoned attorney/politician have made such an obviously bigoted public remark in the first place (the FB post that started all this).

If Mr. Anderson has lost some control of his faculties/emotions, I hope he gets some help.

I also hope that he has lost control, since his statements yesterday, and now today, make him come across as an irrational anti-Mormon bigot of the first order.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 6, 2019 by smac97

[Calm]

I think there are plenty of politicians who say stupid things showing their prejudices when their buttons get pushed.  I don't think there is any need to suggest a breakdown...unless you want to start suggesting the President has been having one for awhile or Biden if you prefer.

[Jake Starkey]

Yea, Rocky melted down.  And, yes, Trump melts all the frickin' time.

[smac97]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think there are plenty of politicians who say stupid things showing their prejudices when their buttons get pushed.  I don't think there is any need to suggest a breakdown...unless you want to start suggesting the President has been having one for awhile or Biden if you prefer.

The suggestion was neither partisan nor malicious.

My perception of Rocky Anderson was previously that he is a formidably intelligent attorney and politician.  And also even-keeled, and perhaps even generally reasonable (though very hostile to the Church).

But perhaps my perception was in error.  If this is the real Rocky, if this is indicative of his regular demeanor and behavior, then . . . wow.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Kenngo1969]

I'm sure that Jackie Biskupski, Salt Lake City's outgoing mayor, has her share of issues with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and with some of its members.  I don't agree with everything that "Mayor Jackie" has said and done, and I have made that clear (though I also recognize that, largely, my opinion on such matters is irrelevant because I am not one of her constituents).  That said, if I were a voter registered in Salt Lake City and were faced with a choice between the two, I would vote for "Mayor Jackie" a thousand times over before I would ever vote for Mr. Anderson. 

And, Smac97, while I agree with you that Mr. Anderson is formidably intelligent, there are those who are capable of using formidable intelligence as an asset because, intelligence notwithstanding, they know "what they don't know" and, consequently, are able and disposed to delegate, to defer to others when deferral is warranted, and so on.  Conversely, there are those who, though, obviously, they are very intelligent, don't know "what they don't know" and who may well suffer from serious God Complexes as a result.  As someone who seems blindingly oblivious to what he doesn't know and who, as a result, thinks he knows far more than he does, I believe Mr. Anderson falls into the latter category.

There's an old saying that one "can't fix stupid."  Actually, not only is it possible to "fix stupid," only one condition is required to make doing so relatively easy:  The only thing that is required to do so is that one who lacks knowledge be willing to learn.  In some ways, for all of his intelligence, Rocky Anderson doesn't seem very smart.  He has always struck me as someone who felt that the "small stage" of Salt Lake City is beneath him.  At the same time, it was the only place where he ever had any real power.

That must be quite a dilemma for him.

[mfbukowski]

On 9/5/2019 at 2:37 PM, Calm said:

It looks like one of the least gerrymandered from the map so wondering about how they got to that conclusion.

Consider the site it was on.  That tells the tale.  Not exactly the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

[mfbukowski]

On 9/5/2019 at 3:05 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

My favorite line from him was when he said smoking marijuana must have put Kamala Harris in a space-time warp. It was in reference to the interview she did wherein she was cackling about smoking weed while listening to two rappers whom she named. Thing is, the rappers weren’t even around at the time she said she was doing the weed. 

Must have been a visionary moment, where past present and future become one.