Calm Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 https://www.deseret.com/2019/8/16/20807538/the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-mormon-lds-russell-m-nelson-full-name some highlights for me... Quote A survey of recent headlines shows news outlets continue to use the terms Mormon and LDS. Tompkins said journalists have a duty to use the proper name to be accurate. “The closest thing we have to this is what we have when sports teams change the naming rights at a stadium,” he said. “When we talk about going to a Tampa Bay Rays game at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, we don’t say we are going to Rays Stadium. You may say, ‘Wait, who are you to tell me what to call it?’ I’m only telling you to call it what it is, what the proper noun of it is. Who am I (as a journalist)? I’m here to identify you. If it’s your name, it’s your name.” Word counts and headlines create different pressure for journalists, Tompkins said. National news outlets also might have a concern that viewers or readers don’t know the church by its full name, he added, “but I have no quibble with the request to use a proper noun, particularly on first reference. This is an issue of accuracy, an issue of clarity and in some ways an issue of respect. What’s accurate is, when you’re talking about a proper noun, you use the proper noun. Maybe you use it with an aka or another term in parentheses.” Quote The next big signal the church would persist was the costly, exhaustive move of migrating all of its content from the official website lds.org to ChurchofJesusChrist.org. The church has corrected the faith’s name in the email addresses of 33,000 leaders and employees, updated 300 web-based apps and acquired 800 domain names in the United States and around the world for use of the full church name, said Elder Gerrit W. Gong of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. To date, 95% of the church’s outward-facing references now have been updated, he said. Church leaders believed, Elder Gong said, “that if we would do our homework first, and change ourselves, then we could legitimately ask others to follow our example.” Quote I have never known the commandment, whether it’s a biblical one or a more recent one, to ever be intended to be used as weapons against each other,” Evans said. “If somebody doesn’t use the full name of the church, I can’t really hold it against them, but I do think that correction once in a while is a good thing. I think there’s some people who go a little too far and try to use that as some sort of litmus test for faithfulness. That’s not what it’s meant to be.” And more stuff to read for those interested in the subject.... 2
Popular Post california boy Posted August 20, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 20, 2019 The thing that stood out the most for me about the article is that as far as I could tell, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not use the full name of the Church that was given to them by God a SINGLE time in all of the internet name changes. They are basically switching one nickname of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to another. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints might like the newer nicknames better because the new nicknames at least have the name of Christ in them. But they are still nicknames and not the name the Savior asked the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to use. From an outsider's point of view, it may seem a bit like a PR campaign to make it appear that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is somehow trying to be the real Church of Christ, which most everyone outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don't believe, rather than a commitment to call the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by it's proper name. I wonder how all the other Church of Jesus Christ feel about this and if there are any legal issues. Quote Church of Jesus Christ–Christian, a white-supremacist church founded by Ku Klux Klan organizer Wesley A. Swift Church of Jesus Christ at Armageddon, commonly known as the Love Family, a communal church founded in 1968 by Love Israel Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar, the national church of Madagascar and the country's second-largest Christian denomination Church of Jesus Christ, known as Harshmanites, a small pacifist church in Illinois with Methodist origins A number of churches with a shared heritage in the Latter Day Saint movement: Church of Christ (Latter Day Saints), the original Latter Day Saint church which for a short period of time was called "The Church of Jesus Christ" The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) the largest denomination within the Latter Day Saint movement Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite), a church consisting of a single branch in Independence, Missouri Church of Jesus Christ (Drewite), a church founded in 1965 by Theron Drew as a schism from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite) Church of Jesus Christ (Original Doctrine) Inc., a Bountiful, British Columbia FLDS Church-offshoot based on the teachings of Winston Blackmore, who split with the FLDS Church after concluding that Warren Jeffs, had exceeded his authority and become too dictatorial. Church of Jesus Christ (Zion's Branch), a Missouri church founded in 1986 by former members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Church of Jesus Christ of the Children of Zion, a short-lived denomination of Rigdonites, founded in 1845 and dissolved by 1847 Church of Jesus Christ Restored 1830, a church founded in the mid-1980s by dissenting members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Church of Jesus Christ, the Bride, the Lamb's Wife, a church founded in 1842 by George M. Hinkle and other excommunicated Latter Day Saints Holy Church of Jesus Christ, a church founded in 1964 by Alexandre Caffiaux as a schism from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite) Primitive Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), a church that was formed in 1914 by dissenters from the Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite) Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), a church that was formed in 1907 by dissenters from the Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite) Restoration Church of Jesus Christ (Gay Mormon Church), a church formed in 1985 by Antonio A. Feliz and other LGBT Latter Day Saints Restored Church of Jesus Christ, a church founded in 1980 by Eugene O. Walton and based in Independence, Missouri The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite), an international church headquartered in Monongahela, Pennsylvania True Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite), a now-defunct Cutlerite sect that existed from 1853-69, based in Clitherall, Minnesota. Has the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints come up with a name to replace Mormonism? Because that is a problem for news organizations and anyone trying to describe a belief system. Finally, I have written out the full name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints each time I needed to identify the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this post. How many of you were annoyed? I certainly was annoyed just having to write it out. The text becomes almost unreadable. I know that I could have sometimes used the generic Church, but when writing an article about different Churches, you can not do that. There are fundamental problems with this goal that can not be fixed with more time and money. 10 years from now, is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints justo going to end up with a mish mash of various iterations of it's name? 7
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 5 hours ago, california boy said: The thing that stood out the most for me about the article is that as far as I could tell, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not use the full name of the Church that was given to them by God a SINGLE time in all of the internet name changes. They are basically switching one nickname of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to another. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints might like the newer nicknames better because the new nicknames at least have the name of Christ in them. But they are still nicknames and not the name the Savior asked the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to use. From an outsider's point of view, it may seem a bit like a PR campaign to make it appear that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is somehow trying to be the real Church of Christ, which most everyone outside the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don't believe, rather than a commitment to call the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by it's proper name. I wonder how all the other Church of Jesus Christ feel about this and if there are any legal issues. Has the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints come up with a name to replace Mormonism? Because that is a problem for news organizations and anyone trying to describe a belief system. Finally, I have written out the full name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints each time I needed to identify the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this post. How many of you were annoyed? I certainly was annoyed just having to write it out. The text becomes almost unreadable. I know that I could have sometimes used the generic Church, but when writing an article about different Churches, you can not do that. There are fundamental problems with this goal that can not be fixed with more time and money. 10 years from now, is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints justo going to end up with a mish mash of various iterations of it's name? Are you seriously, after all this time, unacquainted with the guideline that a shortened form, Church of Jesus Christ, is acceptable on second reference or when it is clear from context what you are referring to? No one has told you that you should write out the entire name each time you refer to the Church rather than using a shortened form when necessary. That's your own misapprehension. 1
JAHS Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I know that I could have sometimes used the generic Church, but when writing an article about different Churches, you can not do that But, how many times is someone or news agency really going to write about the different churches using a similar name? And copy and paste can still be used in such cases.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 20, 2019 Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, JAHS said: But, how many times is someone or news agency really going to write about the different churches using a similar name? And copy and paste can still be used in such cases. And as a career writer myself, I can say there are ways to resolve these little complaints — for one who is writer enough to do so.
Popular Post phaedrus ut Posted August 21, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 21, 2019 Quote “The closest thing we have to this is what we have when sports teams change the naming rights at a stadium,” he said. “When we talk about going to a Tampa Bay Rays game at Tropicana Field in St. Petersburg, we don’t say we are going to Rays Stadium.' Not a great analogy because it's understood that sports stadiums change names and do it often. A better analogy would be when Snoop Dogg changed his name after 20 years to Snoop Lion or when Prince changed his name into a symbol. Both were well know in the public space and had build a brand and image under that name. If you only called them by their new name people are going to be confused. Neither name change lasted and I think everyone realizes this present focus is going to be about as successful as New Coke. Phaedrus 5
bluebell Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, phaedrus ut said: Neither name change lasted and I think everyone realizes this present focus is going to be about as successful as New Coke. Phaedrus Oh man, I hope not. It will really only fail if the members refuse to follow the counsel, and I hope that us members are made of tougher stuff than that. 2
MustardSeed Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 I still say LDS. People understand the words coming out of my mouth. I like that.
SettingDogStar Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) I also don't really believe its a "win for satan" when we use the name Mormons. The whole campaign for "I'm a Mormon" (which were great) and "Meet the Mormons" (which was alright) should show that if it truly was a win the 12 probably wouldn't have let it become so prevalent. Joseph Smith used the name, pretty often too, and even went to the extent of saying (even if it's an odd translation) that it meant "More Good!" I seriously don't think that if it was that much of a win for the Devil that all the prophets from Joseph would have been totally find using it. I do understand, however, where it's coming from. We need to remind people that we do believe in Christ and that we are church that worships Him and not any leader past or present. Though I suppose many sects can still say "you believe in a different Jesus" they won't have much ground, if the campaign is successful, in saying you out right worship "Joe Smith." Of course there is always a little bit of hero worship popping up here and there, but it will hopefully be quelled with the new campaign. Edited August 21, 2019 by SettingDogStar 1
ALarson Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I still say LDS. People understand the words coming out of my mouth. I like that. I agree. I've found most members still say "LDS" or "Mormon". It's like they took note and tried when it was first announced, but then continued using those terms to identify (themselves and others). I also still hear "Mormon church" as often as I did before. We try very hard when conducting a meeting or speaking to use the full name of the church and also in writing. But I have to admit that even the leaders still use "LDS", "Mormon" and "Mormon church" I think we've seen the same thing happen with the press. At first we saw a change and an effort, but now it's back to using those names/terms when writing a story about us..... Edited August 21, 2019 by ALarson 2
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted August 21, 2019 Popular Post Posted August 21, 2019 I think the hardest one is Mormonism, referring not just to the organization, but also to the beliefs, the culture, the practices, the history, the traditions, the worldview, on and on. Think of what "Catholicism" encompasses. What is a simple replacement for Mormonism? 5
SettingDogStar Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I think the hardest one is Mormonism, referring not just to the organization, but also to the beliefs, the culture, the practices, the history, the traditions, the worldview, on and on. Think of what "Catholicism" encompasses. What is a simple replacement for Mormonism? Brighamites? I know that's not perfect either, but that would at least seperate us from the other break offs. Maybe Grantites would work best since that's after polygamy (and thus avoiding confusing us with polygamists) and during the time the WoW become more prominent in mormon thought. Not sure that would ever work though haha 1
cinepro Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 If I were in the IT Department for the Church, I would just install this plugin on President Nelson's computer and call it a day... Frankly, I find this whole name-change thing to be silly and wasteful of both time and resources. But if this is the price we had to pay to get two hour church, I will pay it. (Not that I've stopped using the word "Mormon". I meant I would pay the price in tolerating people pretending like it's a thing, until eventually everyone gives up.) 1
Tacenda Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 I have wondered if it is because of the many podcasts that have mormon in it, like mormon stories, mormon discussion podcast, and a new one I saw, mormon talk. Each of them not on the faithful side.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, phaedrus ut said: Not a great analogy because it's understood that sports stadiums change names and do it often. A better analogy would be when Snoop Dogg changed his name after 20 years to Snoop Lion or when Prince changed his name into a symbol. Both were well know in the public space and had build a brand and image under that name. If you only called them by their new name people are going to be confused. Neither name change lasted and I think everyone realizes this present focus is going to be about as successful as New Coke. Phaedrus Not a great analogy either. President Nelson has made it clear the directive is not about “branding” or “marketing” in the commercial or worldly sense. It is about following the commandment of the Savior regarding the name of His Church and conveying the message to the world that it is indeed His Church. Furthermore, it is my opinion that President Nelson has been unprecedentedly stringent on this matter because the people have been slow to hearken to it in the past. We’re still seeing a lot of murmuring about it even now, but that won’t change what the Lord has impressed upon the mind of His spokesman. 1
phaedrus ut Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Not a great analogy either. President Nelson has made it clear the directive is not about “branding” or “marketing” in the commercial or worldly sense. It is about following the commandment of the Savior regarding the name of His Church and conveying the message to the world that it is indeed His Church. Furthermore, it is my opinion that President Nelson has been unprecedentedly stringent on this matter because the people have been slow to hearken to it in the past. We’re still seeing a lot of murmuring about it even now, but that won’t change what the Lord has impressed upon the mind of His spokesman. Nelson also declared on multiple occasions that the November policy for children of same sex couples was direct revelation from the lord. They haven't used the "R" word for the name preference yet so reversing course will be easy when it happens. I think that the best evidence that the institutional church knows the change is temporary is the recent round of cease and desist letters Intellectual Reserve have been sending out to websites using the name "Mormon" in their title. And regarding the savior and the name of his church we all know that has changed multiple times since it was first revealed and we all know his name isn't Jesus Christ. If you saw him walking down the street and said "Hey Jesus" he would go "Who?". If god is offended by the name Mormon I would expect that he would really be offended we have been calling him by the wrong name all these years. Phaedrus
Scott Lloyd Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said: Nelson also declared on multiple occasions that the November policy for children of same sex couples was direct revelation from the lord. They haven't used the "R" word for the name preference yet so reversing course will be easy when it happens. I think that the best evidence that the institutional church knows the change is temporary is the recent round of cease and desist letters Intellectual Reserve have been sending out to websites using the name "Mormon" in their title. And regarding the savior and the name of his church we all know that has changed multiple times since it was first revealed and we all know his name isn't Jesus Christ. If you saw him walking down the street and said "Hey Jesus" he would go "Who?". If god is offended by the name Mormon I would expect that he would really be offended we have been calling him by the wrong name all these years. Phaedrus He said the Lord had “impressed upon [his] mind” the need for a correction in how the Church of Jesus Christ is identified. He was very clear about it. To me that’s as good as saying it is revelation. Besides, it is a reiteration of what was already in scripture. And no one ever said God is offended by the name Mormon. I don’t know why you critics keep repeating that straw man. Rather, what has been said is that He is offended by the removal of His name from His Church. Edited August 21, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 1
JulieM Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, ALarson said: I agree. I've found most members still say "LDS" or "Mormon". It's like they took note and tried when it was first announced, but then continued using those terms to identify (themselves and others). I also still hear "Mormon church" as often as I did before. We try very hard when conducting a meeting or speaking to use the full name of the church and also in writing. But I have to admit that even the leaders still use "LDS", "Mormon" and "Mormon church" I think we've seen the same thing happen with the press. At first we saw a change and an effort, but now it's back to using those names/terms when writing a story about us..... This is what I am seeing too. I still try to remember, but I’m again hearing Mormon church or “she’s a Mormon” or “they’re LDS”. I’ve noticed in my presidency meetings (YW), we’re back to using those names too. It’s not anything rebellious or being purposely disobedient, it’s just being human I think and habit. It will be interesting to see what we are saying in 10 years from now (which name said in common usage). Either way, our church still has the correct name as Pres. Nelson desires and we are more aware of how strongly he feels about it as our Prophet. Edited August 21, 2019 by JulieM
Scott Lloyd Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: I think the hardest one is Mormonism, referring not just to the organization, but also to the beliefs, the culture, the practices, the history, the traditions, the worldview, on and on. Think of what "Catholicism" encompasses. What is a simple replacement for Mormonism? I agree that’s the hardest part. But as I said earlier, I believe one who is writer enough can find a concise but acceptable replacement, even if it takes more than one word. Question to ponder: How does one boil down “the beliefs, culture, practices, history, traditions, worldview, etc. of the Seventh Day Adventists” into an accurate, one-word noun? Sincere question, because I really can’t think of a way to do it offhand. 1
ALarson Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, JulieM said: This is what I am seeing too. I still try to remember, but I’m again hearing Mormon church or “she’s a Mormon” or “they’re LDS”. I’ve noticed in my presidency meetings (YW), we’re back to using those names too. It’s not anything rebellious or being purposely disobedient, it’s just being human I think and habit. It will be interesting to see what we are saying in 10 years from now (which name said in common usage). Either way, our church still has the correct name as Pres. Nelson desires and we are more aware of how strongly he feels about it as our Prophet. I agree. As for how it'll be in 10 years....who knows? It may depend on who the Prophet is and if it's something they feel as strongly about as Pres. Nelson does. It was obvious for some time that this was a pet peeve of his or something he wanted to change.
ksfisher Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said: If you saw him walking down the street and said "Hey Jesus" he would go "Who?". This is the same God who knew when the woman with the issue of blood touched the border of His garment. (Luke 8:43-48) I think He knows who is speaking to Him. I realize that's a side issue to the main point, but you seem to be suggesting that the Savior doesn't know when we are speaking to Him. If He is aware of someone touches His clothing, I think we can take comfort in knowing that, regardless of location or circumstance, He knows when we speak to Him. 4
Scott Lloyd Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, SettingDogStar said: Brighamites? I know that's not perfect either, but that would at least seperate us from the other break offs. Maybe Grantites would work best since that's after polygamy (and thus avoiding confusing us with polygamists) and during the time the WoW become more prominent in mormon thought. Not sure that would ever work though haha If “Mormons” is unacceptable, “Brighamites” is downright offensive, not just because it goes back to separating the name of Christ from His Church, but because it historically has been used by those who aggressively dispute the truth claim of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as being the only Church today with authority stemming from the Restoration by Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, ALarson said: I agree. As for how it'll be in 10 years....who knows? It may depend on who the Prophet is and if it's something they feel as strongly about as Pres. Nelson does. It was obvious for some time that this was a pet peeve of his or something he wanted to change. By your logic, we would still be using the term “ward teaching,” even though the name has been changed twice now since the mid-‘60s.
ALarson Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: By your logic, we would still be using the term “ward teaching,” even though the name has been changed twice now since the mid-‘60s. Well...who knows? That may come back That would actually be a good term for any person (male or female) ministering to a family or single .....a ward teacher.
clarkgoble Posted August 21, 2019 Posted August 21, 2019 4 hours ago, ALarson said: I agree. I've found most members still say "LDS" or "Mormon". It's like they took note and tried when it was first announced, but then continued using those terms to identify (themselves and others). I also still hear "Mormon church" as often as I did before. We try very hard when conducting a meeting or speaking to use the full name of the church and also in writing. But I have to admit that even the leaders still use "LDS", "Mormon" and "Mormon church" I think we've seen the same thing happen with the press. At first we saw a change and an effort, but now it's back to using those names/terms when writing a story about us..... I've tried but find myself lapsing more and more. Since the Church really didn't offer a workable alternative that's short, I'm not surprised. 2
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