Satanic Ritual Abuse: Barbara Snow Research Paper

[cinepro]

Hi everybody.  Some of you may recall that a few weeks ago, we had a spirited discussion about the accusations currently being leveled against Barbara Miles, President Nelson's daughter, which are a resurrection of charges that were first leveled back in the mid-1980s. 

The thread was closed (perhaps mercifully), but I did want to share that I've found the research paper Barbara Snow published in 1990, wherein she attempts to present her theories in a clinical way.

For those who aren't up to speed, in the mid-1980s, several children in the neighborhood (and ward) of President Nelson's daughter and her husband (the Miles) were taken to see therapist Barbara Snow, and after several visits they began making accusations of weird sex parties against the Miles and others.  These accusations were following a pattern set in previous years by other kids that were seeing Snow, with one "ring" resulting in over 30 adults in the neighborhood being accused.  No evidence of the abuse was ever found, but two men were sent to prison based on the accusations (and Snow's insistence the kids were reliable).

The entire story is told here.

Now that we're all back up to speed, I'll share Snow's research paper.  It's attached.  Please read it.

These are the points I found most interesting:

- Snow repeatedly points out that none of the children ever showed evidence of abuse or made accusations in their initial visits.  It always took a while.

- Snow acknowledges that in most cases, the parents who were accused were actually the ones who had brought the children in for counseling and evaluation to discover if they were being abused! (p.478) She presents several theories as to why abusers might act so illogically, none of which are "the parents were innocent and it was the therapist who gave the kids the idea and prompted them to make the accusations."

- The Case Example on p.479 appears to be the Carstensen/Miles case.  She notes that the abuse by one of the parents was revealed after nine months of counseling, and that until then the parent had been "conscientious, concerned and supportive" with the counseling.

- The paper describes five different neighborhood sex rings in Utah in the 1980s, and explains that in four of the cases, there were first accusations made against local teenagers, and then only after counseling did the accusations expand to include the adults. (p.479) Oddly, it doesn't appear that any of the teenagers thought to accuse their co-molesting adults once they were dragged in by law enforcement.

- She acknowledges the "tremendous duplicity" among the adults.  "The overwhelming majority of known offenders were active members of the predominant religion in the neighborhood.  Several held high profile church and community leadership positions.  They were typically in marital relationships that non offending partners described as stable and low in conflict.  Most were respected parents with positive family images.  Many were recognized in their various areas of employment, including the legal and child-care professions.  Women were identified as perpetrators in all five neighborhoods...These women in the neighborhoods were most often mothers and grandmothers who were involved church, community, and extracurricular activities of children."(p.480) 

- If you recall Bill Carstensen's confession while undergoing treatment and therapy, Snow confirms the conditions under which his statements were made: "His confession was discounted, however, because he had hypnosis and sodium amytal as part of his treatment in an inpatient hospital." (p.481)  Two of the side effects of sodium amytal are "confusion" and "hallucinations."

- After listing all the different stuff that was claimed, she adds "The killing of children and infants was identified by six children in four neighborhoods.  Thirteen percent of the children said they had participated in eating flesh.  Whether these events were factual or persuasive replications is unknown." (p.483)  It's surprising to find a claim that even Barbara Snow found hard to believe.

- "The majority of children initially denied any knowledge or involvement and many maintained silence for a significant length of time.  This appears a rational survival strategy given the assaultive, terrifying and relentless nature of the coercive techniques used with the children to force silence." (p.485)

- "Disclosure became a process, not an event." (p.485)

- "The authors were struck by the initial apparent normalcy of the children included in the study."..."The appearance of normalcy was facilitated by the children's ability to dissociate, compartmentalize, and repress - abilities they had developed as highly refined psychological survival skills." (p.485).

- "The facade of normalcy extended to the behavior of the perpetrators as well.  The high incidence in this study of religious leaders within these neighborhood cases seems almost incomprehensible as their daily lives represent a conspicuous model of morality." (p.486).

- "The appearance of normalcy extended to the juvenile perpetrators of this study as well.  None of the youth showed overt signs of self-styled satanic activity and were considered to be conscientious, responsible, and representative of traditional values."(p.486)

- "Ritualistic abuse of children in a neighborhood setting is insidious and difficult to detect." (p.486).

SnowRitualisticChildabuse.pdf

Edited February 5, 2019 by cinepro

[The Nehor]

Snow is perpetuating the stereotype that shrinks go into the field because they have massive undiagnosed mental problems.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Snow is perpetuating the stereotype that shrinks go into the field because they have massive undiagnosed mental problems.

Or pushing the soft science of psychology into boggish squashiness.

Maybe a better analogy would be quicksand.

[katherine the great]

Confirmation bias at its worst.

[ksfisher]

3 hours ago, cinepro said:

Hi everybody.  Some of you may recall that a few weeks ago, we had a spirited discussion about the accusations currently being leveled against Barbara Miles, President Nelson's daughter, which are a resurrection of charges that were first leveled back in the mid-1980s. 

The thread was closed (perhaps mercifully), but I did want to share that I've found the research paper Barbara Snow published in 1990, wherein she attempts to present her theories in a clinical way.

For those who aren't up to speed, in the mid-1980s, several children in the neighborhood (and ward) of President Nelson's daughter and her husband (the Miles) were taken to see therapist Barbara Snow, and after several visits they began making accusations of weird sex parties against the Miles and others.  These accusations were following a pattern set in previous years by other kids that were seeing Snow, with one "ring" resulting in over 30 adults in the neighborhood being accused.  No evidence of the abuse was ever found, but two men were sent to prison based on the accusations (and Snow's insistence the kids were reliable).

The entire story is told here.

Now that we're all back up to speed, I'll share Snow's research paper.  It's attached.  Please read it.

These are the points I found most interesting:

- Snow repeatedly points out that none of the children ever showed evidence of abuse or made accusations in their initial visits.  It always took a while.

- Snow acknowledges that in most cases, the parents who were accused were actually the ones who had brought the children in for counseling and evaluation to discover if they were being abused! (p.478) She presents several theories as to why abusers might act so illogically, none of which are "the parents were innocent and it was the therapist who gave the kids the idea and prompted them to make the accusations."

- The Case Example on p.479 appears to be the Carstensen/Miles case.  She notes that the abuse by one of the parents was revealed after nine months of counseling, and that until then the parent had been "conscientious, concerned and supportive" with the counseling.

- The paper describes five different neighborhood sex rings in Utah in the 1980s, and explains that in four of the cases, there were first accusations made against local teenagers, and then only after counseling did the accusations expand to include the adults. (p.479) Oddly, it doesn't appear that any of the teenagers thought to accuse their co-molesting adults once they were dragged in by law enforcement.

- She acknowledges the "tremendous duplicity" among the adults.  "The overwhelming majority of known offenders were active members of the predominant religion in the neighborhood.  Several held high profile church and community leadership positions.  They were typically in marital relationships that non offending partners described as stable and low in conflict.  Most were respected parents with positive family images.  Many were recognized in their various areas of employment, including the legal and child-care professions.  Women were identified as perpetrators in all five neighborhoods...These women in the neighborhoods were most often mothers and grandmothers who were involved church, community, and extracurricular activities of children."(p.480) 

- If you recall Bill Carstensen's confession while undergoing treatment and therapy, Snow confirms the conditions under which his statements were made: "His confession was discounted, however, because he had hypnosis and sodium amytal as part of his treatment in an inpatient hospital." (p.481)  Two of the side effects of sodium amytal are "confusion" and "hallucinations."

- After listing all the different stuff that was claimed, she adds "The killing of children and infants was identified by six children in four neighborhoods.  Thirteen percent of the children said they had participated in eating flesh.  Whether these events were factual or persuasive replications is unknown." (p.483)  It's surprising to find a claim that even Barbara Snow found hard to believe.

- "The majority of children initially denied any knowledge or involvement and many maintained silence for a significant length of time.  This appears a rational survival strategy given the assaultive, terrifying and relentless nature of the coercive techniques used with the children to force silence." (p.485)

- "Disclosure became a process, not an event." (p.485)

- "The authors were struck by the initial apparent normalcy of the children included in the study."..."The appearance of normalcy was facilitated by the children's ability to dissociate, compartmentalize, and repress - abilities they had developed as highly refined psychological survival skills." (p.485).

- "The facade of normalcy extended to the behavior of the perpetrators as well.  The high incidence in this study of religious leaders within these neighborhood cases seems almost incomprehensible as their daily lives represent a conspicuous model of morality." (p.486).

- "The appearance of normalcy extended to the juvenile perpetrators of this study as well.  None of the youth showed overt signs of self-styled satanic activity and were considered to be conscientious, responsible, and representative of traditional values."(p.486)

- "Ritualistic abuse of children in a neighborhood setting is insidious and difficult to detect." (p.486).

SnowRitualisticChildabuse.pdf

Thank you for the summary.  I doubt I’ll read the entire thing as my tastes usually run toward non-fiction.

[Jean-Luc Picard]

I know the Miles well. I was not happy to see this dredged up again. The father of the victim/plaintiff in new case was definitely abusive, and ultimately took his own life.

I think something happened to the plaintiff, but not by the Miles. I think the Miles will be once again, cleared of wrongdoing. I just don't see evidence to convince me otherwise.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Jean-Luc Picard

[halconero]

10 hours ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

I know the Miles well. I was not happy to see this dredged up again. The father of the victim/plaintiff in new case was definitely abusive, and ultimately took his own life.

I think something happened to the plaintiff, but not by the Miles. I think the Miles will be once again, cleared of wrongdoing. I just don't see evidence to convince me otherwise.

I know them well too. I was companions with one of their nephews, and good friends with the family. The Miles are an upstanding family.

[Robert F. Smith]

13 hours ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

I know the Miles well. I was not happy to see this dredged up again. The father of the victim/plaintiff in new case was definitely abusive, and ultimately took his own life.

I think something happened to the plaintiff, but not by the Miles. I think the Miles will be once again, cleared of wrongdoing. I just don't see evidence to convince me otherwise.

 

2 hours ago, halconero said:

I know them well too. I was companions with one of their nephews, and good friends with the family. The Miles are an upstanding family.

Do you detect any parallels with the Salem Witch Trials?

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

Do you detect any parallels with the Salem Witch Trials?

Witchcraft has a greater basis in reality then “recovered” memories?

[LoudmouthMormon]

I recently attended a 6 week citizen's police academy thing, learning about different departments and policies and methods and all that.  The Sex crimes against children unit was sobering and informative.  The officer talked about how interviews are done with children, by trained pediatric forensic interviewers.  The interviewers are specifically trained to not plant seeds, suggest ideas, even broach topics.  They lead wandering discussions with vaguely worded questions about how the kid is feeling, and gently pursue things the kids bring up.  If a kid accuses an adult of molesting or hurting them, that stuff in no way comes from the interviewer. 

The officer talked about his worst experience, where a mom kept trying to prime her kid to lie about the dad.  The kid had half a dozen interviews.  Eventually, the interviewer got to the source of the trauma, it was the repeat interviews the child was being forced to have with the interviewer.   Mom went to jail and dad was exonerated.  

The officer made mention of how the whole process of interviewing children has changed and improved over the decades, and how it used to be traumatic to the kids and generate false positives.

Edited February 5, 2019 by LoudmouthMormon

[cinepro]

7 hours ago, halconero said:

I know them well too. I was companions with one of their nephews, and good friends with the family. The Miles are an upstanding family.

That would be the "facade of normalcy" that Snow documents. 

[juliann]

I've always wondered how these kids cope as adults when they know they unknowingly helped put innocent people in jail. That has to be so damaging. 

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, juliann said:

I've always wondered how these kids cope as adults when they know they unknowingly helped put innocent people in jail. That has to be so damaging. 

I've always wondered how such a bad therapist can keep their license after perpetuating this kind of insanity. She should probably be in prison.

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, juliann said:

I've always wondered how these kids cope as adults when they know they unknowingly helped put innocent people in jail. That has to be so damaging. 

Possibly one of the reasons why some remain convinced it happened, to consider it might not have is unthinkable.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

I've always wondered how these kids cope as adults when they know they unknowingly helped put innocent people in jail. That has to be so damaging. 

Depending on the age of the child, I should think that many of them may come to believe their own yarns, spun to please the adult parent or unprofessional interviewer.  Because I was living in Los Angeles at that time, I recall especially the insane McMartin Preschool Sex Abuse  case:

Quote

The McMartin preschool trial was a day care sexual abuse case in the 1980s, prosecuted by the Los Angeles District Attorney Ira Reiner.^[1] Members of the McMartin family, who operated a preschool in Manhattan Beach, California, were charged with numerous acts of sexual abuse of children in their care. Accusations were made in 1983. Arrests and the pretrial investigation ran from 1984 to 1987, and the trial ran from 1987 to 1990. After six years of criminal trials, no convictions were obtained, and all charges were dropped in 1990. When the trial ended in 1990, it had been the longest and most expensive criminal trial in American history.^[2] The case was part of day-care sex-abuse hysteria, a moral panic over alleged Satanic ritual abuse in the 1980s and early 1990s.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial .

Lives were destroyed, and one investigator on the case even committed suicide.

Quote

[Professor of Psychiatry Elizabeth] Loftus has carried out groundbreaking research into memory. Her famous “lost in the mall” study, in 1995, showed that if people were told they were lost in a shopping mall as a young child, many would subsequently “remember” the experience, and even embroider the memory. Another study showed that telling subjects they didn’t like certain foods could potentially help with obesity. “Or you could give them a negative memory of getting sick on an alcohol as a teenager, and then they’re not as interested in that alcohol,” she explains.

In Loftus’s mind, memory is like a Wikipedia page: anyone can add to it or, with the right factors, rewrite it. One of her key discoveries was proving that people will recall events differently, depending on how they are questioned, whether by a psychologist or a police officer.  https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/sep/23/inside-case-of-repressed-memory-nicole-kluemper .

See Elizabeth Loftus and Katherine Ketcham, The Myth of Repressed Memory: False Memories and Allegations of Sexual Abuse (St Martins, 1996). 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[juliann]

17 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

Because I was living in Los Angeles at that time, I recall especially the insane McMartin Preschool Sex Abuse  case:

I was in the area as well. I believed it at first, to my shame. But it was before the days of nonstop news and FB so the other side didn't get out for a long time. I still remember the videos of the child interviews that came out later and it was so dang obvious how those therapists led those poor kids it was embarrasing to think this nonsense was ever supported. 

[Robert F. Smith]

5 minutes ago, juliann said:

I was in the area as well. I believed it at first, to my shame. But it was before the days of nonstop news and FB so the other side didn't get out for a long time. I still remember the videos of the child interviews that came out later and it was so dang obvious how those therapists led those poor kids it was embarrasing to think this nonsense was ever supported. 

I too was taken in by it at first, until all the nonsense about tunnels started to come out.  Started to sound like the X-Files.  Even the D.A., Ira Reiner, believed it.

[cinepro]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I've always wondered how such a bad therapist can keep their license after perpetuating this kind of insanity. She should probably be in prison.

Well, there was this about 10 years ago, but she has her license back:

Embattled therapist agrees to probation

Quote

In January 2007, the division accused Snow of violating Utah codes of professional conduct and ethical principles defined by the National Association of Social Workers.

The disciplinary notice alleged Snow convinced a male relative he was sexually abused by his father. It also contended Snow convinced a female relative she was the victim of satanic abuse and military testing. When state investigators questioned Snow, she allegedly provided made-up notes about those sessions.

In the agreement, Snow admitted destroying a relative's computer equipment and adding two incorrect dates to her psychotherapy notes. The correct dates were located in other portions of the files, and the state ultimately did not find this to be unprofessional conduct.

 

[cinepro]

18 hours ago, juliann said:

I've always wondered how these kids cope as adults when they know they unknowingly helped put innocent people in jail. That has to be so damaging. 

There are some articles that quote the children (now adults) as they recall what happened.  This one tells the story of a guy in Bakersfield who was sent to prison during their hysteria in the early 1980s:

After 15 Years I Finally Had Gotten Justice

Quote

County investigators believed that where there was one instance of molestation, there were dozens. One central figure in the cases, social worker Velda Murillo, operated on the premise that the use of leading and suggestive questions was not only acceptable but essential in overcoming a child's tendency to protect their relatives, according to appellate court testimony.

"Velda Murillo and a sheriff's detective came to my school and took me into the principal's office and questioned me for 4 1/2 hours," recalled Carla Jo Modahl, now 25, married and the mother of two.

"They kept on pressuring me and pressuring me, saying I had been touched, that my dad did it, and I kept telling them, 'No, he didn't.' "

The two investigators took her to a shelter that night without informing her father. The next day, they returned to question her, this time with an audio recorder. The tape of that session was never turned over to Modahl's attorneys.

Murillo, who now investigates cases for the district attorney, could not be reached for comment.

"They said they had pictures and the whole thing. They hounded me in a way that a 9-year-old should never be hounded. It went on for so long that it made me believe that my dad really did do those things to me."

Sheriff's detectives arrested Modahl about a week later, and he was charged with molesting Carla Jo and aiding and abetting other relatives who molested her.

After being released in 1999, the daughter wrote him a note that said:

Quote

"I am so happy that you are home, but I'm so sorry that you had to wait for so long," it read. "Maybe I will forgive myself completely someday. I'm just not ready yet."

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by cinepro

[CA Steve]

17 hours ago, juliann said:

I was in the area as well. I believed it at first, to my shame. But it was before the days of nonstop news and FB so the other side didn't get out for a long time. I still remember the videos of the child interviews that came out later and it was so dang obvious how those therapists led those poor kids it was embarrasing to think this nonsense was ever suppor

 

17 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I too was taken in by it at first, until all the nonsense about tunnels started to come out.  Started to sound like the X-Files.  Even the D.A., Ira Reiner, believed it.

Sadly I too was in LA when the story broke and believed it. I remember when they televised the pictures of the McMartins  my first reaction was they looked guilty. It was a witch hunt. I think the tunnels was the first inclination I had that not everything was adding up.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Well, there was this about 10 years ago, but she has her license back:

Embattled therapist agrees to probation

 

[NancyVictoria]

I can unfortunately, relate to so much of this... the "repressed" false memories of SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse); my therapist was quite a fan of Barbara Snow and others who helped usher in the age of repressed memories in general and SRA in particular. Fortunately, I had the priviledge of spending a little time with Elizabeth Loftus as she was among 3 Drs. that were to be expert witnesses should my lawsuit go to trial. (It very nearly did, settling with me in the 11th hour, so to speak). She is a lovely, funny, wise woman, btw. :-)

   I will never presume to tell someone else their recovered memories are false, but I will say that in general they should be highly suspect. No amount of money could ever be worth what I was put through and continue to deal with, in spite of knowing my "memories" and nightmares of abuse, torture, and the most horrific things you can imagine have no basis in actual reality... What my family was put through...

   My therapist was also brought before our state medical board and as far as I'm concerned, was given barely a slap on the wrist considering all of the damage done to me and other patients. My therapist too, continues to practice. All I can say is that I pray my former therapist has changed their methods, dropping the use of hypnosis, (as was ordered by the state board) combined with certain meds and other tactics that foster the process of inducing false memories! I went to this person for major depression and 2 yrs. later left with a broken family, MPD and false memory syndrome. (I no longer have MPD or DID, as it is referred to now.)

 

 

[Calm]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Too many think that it is better to believe such things just in case they are really happening. They don’t register the pain that is caused for the victims and the disaster this can lead to in relationships when the memories are actually false, but feel very real and horrific. 

[california boy]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:50 PM, cinepro said:

There are some articles that quote the children (now adults) as they recall what happened.  This one tells the story of a guy in Bakersfield who was sent to prison during their hysteria in the early 1980s:

After 15 Years I Finally Had Gotten Justice

After being released in 1999, the daughter wrote him a note that said:

  Quote

"I am so happy that you are home, but I'm so sorry that you had to wait for so long," it read. "Maybe I will forgive myself completely someday. I'm just not ready yet."

 

This breaks my heart.  The Satanic Ritual Abuse, McMartin Preschool and all the others are horrible crimes perpetrated on by therapist should go to jail for that abuse.  A slap on the wrist would be to take their license away and prohibit them from ever practicing again.  These are the kinds of cases you secretly wish the judge deciding the punishment had gone through this kind of crime so that the impact of what happened is clearly understood when the sentence is issued.  

If you haven't seen the documentary on the McMartin Preschool case, I think it was on Netflix, you should take the time to watch it.  This thing was way more horrible than even the media and other news sources reported.  Much of the documentary is actual footage.  It is not a dramatization.  

[mfbukowski]

On 2/5/2019 at 6:25 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Even the D.A., Ira Reiner, believed it.

....which was largely one of the main factors in making it even worse.