rongo Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I'm very happy for the prophets to determine how any 'adjustments' are to be made and what they might look like. It's usually up to us as missionaries to make those adjustments, when called there or when circumstances place us there. You and I know that, but we're not normal. How many other people do? Or, more importantly, why? As for me, I'm interested in religion and people. And yet the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is currently blossoming in India. I'm a member of a Latter-day Saints in India Facebook group. I wish I could clone the faith and simple obedience that I see demonstrated repeatedly by some of our Indian branches and wards and bring it here. I fully expect to see the day when the Subcontinent is bejeweled with Latter-day Saint temples. That's wonderful! I think growth will be very fragile, with casualties, but then, it's like that everywhere (including in the West). My anthropology 101 professor at BYU's specialty was India. He showed us pictures of a Pioneer Day celebration with Indian kids dressed like Mormon pioneers doing a parade (this was in 1993). There were a lot of anthropology principles to discuss there, including cultural relevance, learned and shared culture, etc. I actually don't know a single former Sikh in the Church, but they are amongst our closest friends in these parts. I love them! This professor had a Sikh speak to us about their beliefs and way of life. It was really neat (especially learning about their garment, which is similar to ours). The Phoenix Art Museum has a special Sikh art section, which includes displays about history and beliefs as well. They are a special people with a mission to fulfill. I wouldn't be surprised to see them catch the spark of the gospel. Despite the current difficulty in teaching Muslims from certain parts of the world in certain countries, I was blown away by multiple Pakistani Muslim graduate students in Germany. They ordered a Book of Mormon in Urdu, and were very interested in learning about it. My knowledge of the Koran (and links to Judaism and Christianity) stem from these discussions. They are very open about the prophets (Moses, Elijah, etc.) and Jesus in Islam. They were fascinated that we aren't Trinitarian (they assumed all Christians were, and that we aren't was a plus for them), and I had fun following up about Jesus: "So, he's just a prophet, and not the penultimate one (that's Mohammend), but he rose from the dead? That's kind of special, isn't it?" Very fun and interesting discussions! 2
cinepro Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: “My dear brothers and sisters, I promise you that if we will do our best to restore the correct name of the Lord’s Church, He whose Church this is will pour down His power and blessings upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints, the likes of which we have never seen. We will have the knowledge and power of God to help us take the blessings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord.” If he's saying that God has been withholding power and blessings from our heads because we've called ourselves "Mormons", then I think that's a little disappointing on God's part. It's just weird to think of all the time and effort that went into the "I'm a Mormon" campaign, and "Meet the Mormons", and to think of God sitting up in heaven and saying "No power and blessings for you!" is just...odd. 2
cinepro Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 Honestly, the only "good" thing I can think of from this change is that it might make the lyrics of some of the songs in the Book of Mormon musical a little incongruous.
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, rongo said: It's usually up to us as missionaries to make those adjustments, when called there or when circumstances place us there. Not when it comes to what we call the Church, in my opinion ... Quote He showed us pictures of a Pioneer Day celebration with Indian kids dressed like Mormon pioneers doing a parade (this was in 1993). I think you might find that Church activities in India appear a bit different in 2018 ... Elder Bednar did tell us 3.5 years ago that it would be American Saints who would struggle the most with what the emerging global Church looks like. I look forward to the day when we're all singing from the same hymn book! Edited October 12, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan 3
Garden Girl Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 Tacenda... I just received a call from the bishop asking me to speak in Sac Mtg this month... Topic: Becoming More Christlike... have been doing research this afternoon in the scriptures, and numerous Church talks, articles, etc., to organize my thoughts on what I want to focus on... Christ's love of course is at the core... GG 2
Calm Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, rongo said: I wonder to what extent President Nelson's familiarity with Mandarin Chinese and his experiences at medical conferences and medical teaching situations colors how he feels on this (Mormon = Gates of Hell). As others have mentioned, I don't think there is much of a problem at all of people thinking that Mormons a) worship Mormon, b) worship Joseph Smith, c) aren't Christian. I know when we were in Canada and Russia, I ran into people who had no clue we were Christian. At one time when I was working at the church bookstore in Calagary, an older Orthodox priest came in looking for a specific Bible translation iirc (the name of the store wasn't obviously Latter-day Saint related). I explained to him, while we had some general Christian books (such as Max Lucado), most of our books were written by Mormons for the Mormon POV (using Mormon now because I did then). He got a strange look on his face looking around at all the pictures of Christ on the walls (pretty much every inch that didn't have shelving had a picture of Christ by Olsen, Dewey, and others) and asked "you believe in Christ?". After I assured him we did and in fact our full name was The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he thanked me and left looking quite puzzled. It was obvious that we were Christians was a very foreign idea to him. Now I don't remember people asking me if I was Christian growing up in the States (California and Illinois); that was 'how many wives does your dad have?' or 'does your dad have horns?', but as an adult outside the US there were many it seems who were not aware. I never asked them who they thought we worshiped, I just assumed they never really thought about it. Edited October 12, 2018 by Calm 3
Calm Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 53 minutes ago, cinepro said: If he's saying that God has been withholding power and blessings from our heads because we've called ourselves "Mormons", then I think that's a little disappointing on God's part. It's just weird to think of all the time and effort that went into the "I'm a Mormon" campaign, and "Meet the Mormons", and to think of God sitting up in heaven and saying "No power and blessings for you!" is just...odd. I look on it being given access to blessings we were not prepared for before, not prevented from having any blessings at all. If I only learn to speak one language, doesn't mean I cannot be benefitted from that knowledge, but I can receive additional knowledge if I work on learning multiple languages (the fact I am rotten at languages and never figured out how to pick up more than a smattering of French, Russian, and Spanish is one of my big regrets and at this point I accept I am too lazy to try given it would be even harder now). 1
Stargazer Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, cinepro said: If he's saying that God has been withholding power and blessings from our heads because we've called ourselves "Mormons", then I think that's a little disappointing on God's part. It's just weird to think of all the time and effort that went into the "I'm a Mormon" campaign, and "Meet the Mormons", and to think of God sitting up in heaven and saying "No power and blessings for you!" is just...odd. During my mission while in the MTC (not really, this was before the MTC existed) I was once concerned about a specific question regarding my patriarchal blessing. Trying to get some personal revelation on the matter, I prayed about it on multiple occasions, but while I felt like the Lord was listening he gave me nothing. I finally consulted an advisor and he told me that that I had been breaking mission rules in respect of being in bed after lights out (I was leaving the sleeping quarters and doing my praying in an empty classroom), and that the Lord was withholding an answer because of that. I was like "What difference does that make?" He explained that if the Lord answered me while I was breaking mission rules then He would be training me that disregarding rules was OK. He advised me to find another time when I could be alone. I took his advice, and got the answer I was looking for -- which was the strongest spiritual experience I had had to that point in my life. So, I don't think it's odd at all. Remember that little scripture? "I the Lord am bound when you do what I say -- when you do not what I say, you have no promise." Got faith? 3
Stargazer Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 I do have to admit that I haven't been likely to identify the Church using its ubiquitous nickname anyway, unless my interlocutor is looking perplexed. So I'm not going to have any trouble with this initiative. I don't know what you citics are complaining about -- except that it seems that is one of your "things". Gripe, grouse, murmur and complain. 2
Calm Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I do have to admit that I haven't been likely to identify the Church using its ubiquitous nickname anyway, unless my interlocutor is looking perplexed. So I'm not going to have any trouble with this initiative. I don't know what you citics are complaining about -- except that it seems that is one of your "things". Gripe, grouse, murmur and complain. My problem isn't with the name, it is finding a nonawkward way of adjectives and something that sounds right (is more or less parallel to Catholism, Judaism....an "ism" form, Iow) instead of "Mormonism". There are rules of English writing .I have been taught to follow. Edited October 12, 2018 by Calm 1
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Garden Girl said: Tacenda... I just received a call from the bishop asking me to speak in Sac Mtg this month... Topic: Becoming More Christlike... have been doing research this afternoon in the scriptures, and numerous Church talks, articles, etc., to organize my thoughts on what I want to focus on... Christ's love of course is at the core... GG I think that is one lucky congregation! 😁 What I'm trying more for is a in-depth look at his life and teachings I guess. But maybe I missed it somewhere or it got lost in translation. Or I don't know, maybe too many, do I dare say LDS, teachings got mixed in as well also latter-day prophets teachings. I just want straight shot of the Saviour but that well may be a short talk. Or it doesn't have to be that way. I loved a story I shared on empathy years ago with the Saviour in it, I wish I had saved. Maybe I can find it, not saying you need it for your talk though.
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Tacenda said: Or I don't know, maybe too many, do I dare say LDS, teachings got mixed in as well also latter-day prophets teachings. I just want straight shot of the Saviour but that well may be a short talk. Literally every teaching we have from the Saviour has come to us because a prophet taught it. Jesus didn't write a single word of the Bible.
Calm Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I think that is one lucky congregation! 😁 What I'm trying more for is a in-depth look at his life and teachings I guess. But maybe I missed it somewhere or it got lost in translation. Or I don't know, maybe too many, do I dare say LDS, teachings got mixed in as well also latter-day prophets teachings. I just want straight shot of the Saviour but that well may be a short talk. Or it doesn't have to be that way. I loved a story I shared on empathy years ago with the Saviour in it, I wish I had saved. Maybe I can find it, not saying you need it for your talk though. Have you looked at this manual? I don't know if you will feel it gets too "mixed in", but perhaps it may work for you. https://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-christ-and-the-everlasting-gospel-student-readings/student-readings?lang=eng&_r=1 1
Tacenda Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Calm said: Have you looked at this manual? I don't know if you will feel it gets too "mixed in", but perhaps it may work for you. https://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-christ-and-the-everlasting-gospel-student-readings/student-readings?lang=eng&_r=1 Wow, thank you for this vast compilation of scripture. It's time I put up or shut up!
RevTestament Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Calm said: My problem isn't with the name, it is finding a nonawkward way of adjectives and something that sounds right (is more or less parallel to Catholism, Judaism....an "ism" form, Iow) instead of "Mormonism". There are rules of English writing .I have been taught to follow. Saintism... hmm. maybe too close to Satanism. Well, I guess there is none....
thatjimguy Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 I do not hear anyone say that we have ever worshipped Mormon. But there is an old saying my football coach told me... "If we score, we might win. If they score, they might win. But if they never score, then we never lose!" In other words, better safe than sorry. Do we really lose anything substantial from dropping the nickname as opposed to what we gain by being crystal clear about who we truly are? 1
Stargazer Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Calm said: My problem isn't with the name, it is finding a nonawkward way of adjectives and something that sounds right (is more or less parallel to Catholism, Judaism....an "ism" form, Iow) instead of "Mormonism". There are rules of English writing .I have been taught to follow. I haven't had this problem crop up, yet. But yes, that does make for an interesting concern. Saintism? Restorationism? Hmmm.
Stargazer Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: I think that is one lucky congregation! 😁 What I'm trying more for is a in-depth look at his life and teachings I guess. But maybe I missed it somewhere or it got lost in translation. Or I don't know, maybe too many, do I dare say LDS, teachings got mixed in as well also latter-day prophets teachings. I just want straight shot of the Saviour but that well may be a short talk. Or it doesn't have to be that way. I loved a story I shared on empathy years ago with the Saviour in it, I wish I had saved. Maybe I can find it, not saying you need it for your talk though. FWIW, my favorite topic is the Atonement. I have done a lot of studying to try to see best how to explain it. No doubt there are many ways, and I don't know if there is an ideal. 1
Garden Girl Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Calm said: Have you looked at this manual? I don't know if you will feel it gets too "mixed in", but perhaps it may work for you. https://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-christ-and-the-everlasting-gospel-student-readings/student-readings?lang=eng&_r=1 Thank you Calm... What a wonderful resource... I see several I want to review for my talk... GG 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Posted October 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Calm said: I look on it being given access to blessings we were not prepared for before, not prevented from having any blessings at all. If I only learn to speak one language, doesn't mean I cannot be benefitted from that knowledge, but I can receive additional knowledge if I work on learning multiple languages (the fact I am rotten at languages and never figured out how to pick up more than a smattering of French, Russian, and Spanish is one of my big regrets and at this point I accept I am too lazy to try given it would be even harder now). Duo lingo is a great app for learning. I'm not fluent but I can understand Spanish and German much better and it takes about ten minutes a day
Calm Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Duo lingo is a great app for learning. I'm not fluent but I can understand Spanish and German much better and it takes about ten minutes a day Thanks for the info 1
filovirus Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 17 hours ago, Tacenda said: I know all wards aren't like mine, but why not enough talks on Jesus then? Does your ward have secular topics during sacrament meeting? My understanding was that sacrament talks should be about His (Jesus Christ) gospel and how we can better understand and follow it.
Bernard Gui Posted October 12, 2018 Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Tacenda said: Maybe if we look at the conference talks, how many are specifically on Jesus? Not just mentioning his name. But entire talks about him. Maybe some of us realize the fact that all talks about the sacred precepts, principles, teachings, admonitions, experiences, and Christian behaviors of the gospel of Jesus Christ are talks about him. Edited October 12, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Stargazer Posted October 13, 2018 Posted October 13, 2018 16 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: Duo lingo is a great app for learning. I'm not fluent but I can understand Spanish and German much better and it takes about ten minutes a day I had wondered about it, but it seemed like the method wouldn't help someone learning to speak it. Understand and read, maybe.
Calm Posted October 13, 2018 Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I had wondered about it, but it seemed like the method wouldn't help someone learning to speak it. Understand and read, maybe. I am not going to get much chance to speak a language anyway, lol, so sounds good to me. Edited October 13, 2018 by Calm
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