Implications of new, shortened Sunday meeting schedule

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, Duncan said:

I can't recall if I posted this earlier but I hope our Bishop still uses the WML, it's better to have 2 people do two callings than one person doing 2 callings. 

What’s the WML?

[Buckeye]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What’s the WML?

Ward mission leader 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't go as often anymore, but in my mind, I'd imagine that each hour will feel very hurried in order to come under in time.

With proper planning that needn’t be an issue. Plan two speakers instead of three, for example. Ask speakers not to over-prepare. Plan less content for lessons. It can be done, with an eye toward expecting individuals and families to carry more of the responsibility for their own learning. 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

Ward mission leader 

Why wouldn’t the bishop still use the ward mission leader? 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

With proper planning that needn’t be an issue. Plan two speakers instead of three, for example. Ask speakers not to over-prepare. Plan less content for lessons. It can be done, with an eye toward expecting individuals and families to carry more of the responsibility for their own learning. 

The second hour will be actually longer than it is now, so I don't think there will be any reason to plan for less content for lessons (except probably with primary).

Edited October 7, 2018 by bluebell

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why wouldn’t the bishop still use the ward mission leader? 

it sounds like it's optional to have that as a calling or you can ask an EQ counselour to do it, which I won't!

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

it sounds like it's optional to have that as a calling or you can ask an EQ counselour to do it, which I won't!

It's up the bishop, however. There are basically three options: a WML that reports to the bishop, a WML that reports to an EQ counsellor, or an EQ counsellor who serves as the WML.

[rockpond]

Thanks for sharing the letter @Scott Lloyd  

I especially appreciate being able to read the details of for primary since I have a young daughter who is really sad that it will be shorter.

The overlapping schedule is exactly what I had anticipated and I think it will be great to be able to fit 5 wards in a building without anyone going too late.  Definitely needed in our area. 

[mnn727]

12 hours ago, Duncan said:

I can't recall if I posted this earlier but I hope our Bishop still uses the WML, it's better to have 2 people do two callings than one person doing 2 callings. 

WML???

Never mind - already answered.

Edited October 8, 2018 by mnn727

[Duncan]

3 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

WML???

Ward Mission leader! cha cha cha!

[Calm]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

Thanks for sharing the letter @Scott Lloyd  

I especially appreciate being able to read the details of for primary since I have a young daughter who is really sad that it will be shorter.

The overlapping schedule is exactly what I had anticipated and I think it will be great to be able to fit 5 wards in a building without anyone going too late.  Definitely needed in our area. 

We were going to be going to 8:30 am next year....about the time I have been going to sleep the past few weeks.

[rongo]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

There was a time when those beloved hymns you mention were not well known. Every hymn is new at one initially and must be learned. There is a great deal that is beautiful a potentially enriching that we miss out on by singing the same limited selection of hymns over and over again. 

If the Church were to do as you suggest above, there would be no need for a revision of the hymnal, and plans for it may as well be scrapped now. 

My family sang our way through the entire hymnbook (took a couple of years, doing a hymn for the opening and a hymn for the closing song for FHE every week, sequentially). We are now singing our way through the Children's song book. For songs nobody knows, we used the CD to help. 

It was a great experience, but we found that some of the hymns that are never sung are never sung for a reason: they are absolutely dreadful, both in music and lyrics. For some, they are not sung as a form of hymnbook Darwinism.  

Elder Steven Snow, when he presided at our stake conference, told us about some of the politics that went in to the 1985 hymnbook revision. Some general authorities insisted and held out for hymns from family and friends to be included (one of these was one that President Packer insisted, "I don't care what anyone says. This *will* be in the hymnbook, end of discussion"), and many of these are the ones that are never sung. But, they're in the hymnbook!  

Some of my favorite hymns are arrangements made by others, not the music that appears in the hymnbook. One of these is "Come Ye Disconsolate," a hymn very few people know and one that is almost never sung (but which was quoted in Conference this time!). A brother in our ward had written an arrangement and sang it as a solo at two funerals we had, and I've thought about having him record himself and sending it to me. It's words are amazing (Jesus can heal those who cannot be comforted), but this brother's version is . . . wow. Another one we learned in a branch choir in Germany was an arrangement of "Wie lang O Herr, so heilig und wahr?" (How Long O Lord, Most Holy and True?). It's a John A. Widtsoe hymn that I don't think is ever sung anywhere (it's in the hymnbook --- you can look it up), but the version we learned (which is better than the version in the book) was haunting, and I still sing it to myself to this day. 

There are others we don't sing that are wonderful songs (music and words), and they are hidden gems because nobody sings them. We ought to learn them!

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, rongo said:

A brother in our ward had written an arrangement and sang it as a solo at two funerals we had, and I've thought about having him record himself and sending it to me. It's words are amazing (Jesus can heal those who cannot be comforted), but this brother's version is . . . wow. Another one we learned in a branch choir in Germany was an arrangement of "Wie lang O Herr, so heilig und wahr?" (How Long O Lord, Most Holy and True?). It's a John A. Widtsoe hymn that I don't think is ever sung anywhere (it's in the hymnbook --- you can look it up), but the version we learned (which is better than the version in the book) was haunting, and I still sing it to myself to this day. 

You should send both of these in to the new hymnbook committee.

[Rising_Darkness]

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't go as often anymore, but in my mind, I'd imagine that each hour will feel very hurried in order to come under in time.

 Nah. Not at all. There is more time for less things.

 

And this change, in my opinion, will help create a more lively meeting and classroom, since after that meeting it is it, time to go home. No more meeting in hallways between classes for an hour, etc. 

More people will actually look forward going to class, etc.

 

[Gray]

Edit: wrong thread

Edited October 8, 2018 by Gray

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

My family sang our way through the entire hymnbook (took a couple of years, doing a hymn for the opening and a hymn for the closing song for FHE every week, sequentially). We are now singing our way through the Children's song book. For songs nobody knows, we used the CD to help. 

It was a great experience, but we found that some of the hymns that are never sung are never sung for a reason: they are absolutely dreadful, both in music and lyrics. For some, they are not sung as a form of hymnbook Darwinism.  

Elder Steven Snow, when he presided at our stake conference, told us about some of the politics that went in to the 1985 hymnbook revision. Some general authorities insisted and held out for hymns from family and friends to be included (one of these was one that President Packer insisted, "I don't care what anyone says. This *will* be in the hymnbook, end of discussion"), and many of these are the ones that are never sung. But, they're in the hymnbook!  

Some of my favorite hymns are arrangements made by others, not the music that appears in the hymnbook. One of these is "Come Ye Disconsolate," a hymn very few people know and one that is almost never sung (but which was quoted in Conference this time!). A brother in our ward had written an arrangement and sang it as a solo at two funerals we had, and I've thought about having him record himself and sending it to me. It's words are amazing (Jesus can heal those who cannot be comforted), but this brother's version is . . . wow. Another one we learned in a branch choir in Germany was an arrangement of "Wie lang O Herr, so heilig und wahr?" (How Long O Lord, Most Holy and True?). It's a John A. Widtsoe hymn that I don't think is ever sung anywhere (it's in the hymnbook --- you can look it up), but the version we learned (which is better than the version in the book) was haunting, and I still sing it to myself to this day. 

There are others we don't sing that are wonderful songs (music and words), and they are hidden gems because nobody sings them. We ought to learn them!

Sometimes all hymn really needs is a new and better arraignment than the one in the hymnal.   

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

My family sang our way through the entire hymnbook (took a couple of years, doing a hymn for the opening and a hymn for the closing song for FHE every week, sequentially). We are now singing our way through the Children's song book. For songs nobody knows, we used the CD to help. 

It was a great experience, but we found that some of the hymns that are never sung are never sung for a reason: they are absolutely dreadful, both in music and lyrics. For some, they are not sung as a form of hymnbook Darwinism.  

Elder Steven Snow, when he presided at our stake conference, told us about some of the politics that went in to the 1985 hymnbook revision. Some general authorities insisted and held out for hymns from family and friends to be included (one of these was one that President Packer insisted, "I don't care what anyone says. This *will* be in the hymnbook, end of discussion"), and many of these are the ones that are never sung. But, they're in the hymnbook!  

Some of my favorite hymns are arrangements made by others, not the music that appears in the hymnbook. One of these is "Come Ye Disconsolate," a hymn very few people know and one that is almost never sung (but which was quoted in Conference this time!). A brother in our ward had written an arrangement and sang it as a solo at two funerals we had, and I've thought about having him record himself and sending it to me. It's words are amazing (Jesus can heal those who cannot be comforted), but this brother's version is . . . wow. Another one we learned in a branch choir in Germany was an arrangement of "Wie lang O Herr, so heilig und wahr?" (How Long O Lord, Most Holy and True?). It's a John A. Widtsoe hymn that I don't think is ever sung anywhere (it's in the hymnbook --- you can look it up), but the version we learned (which is better than the version in the book) was haunting, and I still sing it to myself to this day. 

There are others we don't sing that are wonderful songs (music and words), and they are hidden gems because nobody sings them. We ought to learn them!

Conversely, there are a few hymns we sing regularly that I don’t much care for and would gladly see them changed out for some of the ones that are rarely sung that I think are beautiful. 

I still think we are beset too much by inertia in the selection of hymns we sing. I lead the singing of the opening hymn in priesthood meeting opening exercises (a role that is going away with the changes announced yesterday). I have been surprised on occasion when the bishop has rejected in advance a choice I have made for a hymn because he thinks it is not well enough known. (We are hamstrung by the fact that the room in which we meet has no hymnbooks and people must rely on memory or on the app in their electronic devices.) 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

As long as we are considering hymns that ought to be dropped from the hymn book because they are rarely sung, we ought to bear in mind that one beloved hymn today, “Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing,” was dropped in the last revision for that very reason. It subsequently was popularized by Mack Wilberg, first with his BYU choruses and later with the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[randy]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Conversely, there are a few hymns we sing regularly that I don’t much care for and would gladly see them changed out for some of the ones that are rarely sung that I think are beautiful. 

I still think we are beset too much by inertia in the selection of hymns we sing. I lead the singing of the opening hymn in priesthood meeting opening exercises (a role that is going away with the changes announced yesterday). I have been surprised on occasion when the bishop has rejected in advance a choice I have made for a hymn because he thinks it is not well enough known. (We are hamstrung by the fact that the room in which we meet has no hymnbooks and people must rely on memory or on the app in their electronic devices.) 

I can appreciate the need and sentiment of expanding our horizons regarding singing other hymns that are less familiar.  But, I still feel that a hymn that is familiar and beloved...should be used for the opening hymn in Sacrament mtg.  It just invites the spirit versus one that is so difficult and/or unfamiliar that the singing is barely more than a whisper or mumbling  of words.  I remember  back in the day during Sunday School time when there was a time set aside to learn new hymns.  That's important as well. I enjoyed that too.  But, again...if we were to follow the example we see in GC, wherein we sing a few, if not several of the more familiar and beloved hymns.   I can't even remember the last time we sang Redeemer of Israel, Spirit of God, High on the Mountain Top, We Thank Thee Oh God for a Prophet, Come Come Ye Saints, Praise to the Man, Faith of our Fathers, Come Follow Me,  I Know that My Redeemer Lives, Let Us All Press On, There is Sunshine in my Soul Today.....to name just a few......in Sacrament meeting.

I guess I just miss them..and the spirit they brought to the meetings in which they were sung.

 

[Amulek]

On 10/7/2018 at 3:44 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

Among resources are details about the schedule for sacrament meeting, Sunday School and priesthood and auxiliary meetings. There is also a Q and A with more information. 

Some interesting things I’ve gleaned:

Thanks for posting this. It was really informative.

One thing I haven't quite figured out though: Why, with the exception of primary, are we only going to have closing prayers during the second hour? 

It expressly states that there should not be opening prayers for sunday school, YM, WM, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has thoughts as to why that might be. 

It's been something that has been puzzling to me which I haven't quite yet been able to think of a good explanation. 

 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Amulek said:

Thanks for posting this. It was really informative.

One thing I haven't quite figured out though: Why, with the exception of primary, are we only going to have closing prayers during the second hour? 

It expressly states that there should not be opening prayers for sunday school, YM, WM, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has thoughts as to why that might be. 

It's been something that has been puzzling to me which I haven't quite yet been able to think of a good explanation. 

 

Good. One less thing to worry about when I teach.

[rongo]

15 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Thanks for posting this. It was really informative.

One thing I haven't quite figured out though: Why, with the exception of primary, are we only going to have closing prayers during the second hour? 

It expressly states that there should not be opening prayers for sunday school, YM, WM, etc.

I'm curious if anyone has thoughts as to why that might be. 

It's been something that has been puzzling to me which I haven't quite yet been able to think of a good explanation. 

It is weird. It would be one thing if sacrament meeting didn't have a closing prayer, so the whole 2 hour block is "sandwiched" between the sacrament meeting OP, and the 2nd hour CP. But it's not. You have the first hour opened and closed with a prayer, and the 2nd hour closed with a prayer. Strange. 

[pogi]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

It is weird. It would be one thing if sacrament meeting didn't have a closing prayer, so the whole 2 hour block is "sandwiched" between the sacrament meeting OP, and the 2nd hour CP. But it's not. You have the first hour opened and closed with a prayer, and the 2nd hour closed with a prayer. Strange. 

It is different, but the whole concept of "opening" prayer and "closing" prayer is not really scriptural. 

[toon]

Will there still be fast and testimony meeting the first Sunday of each month?

In the past, nearly every ward that I had been in struggled to finish F&T meeting on time. Seems a good percentage of the time (less than 50% but still significant), we went over. With sacrament meeting now 15 minutes shorter, will there be more pressure to extend in order to accommodate likely the same amount of people each week who will want to share their testimonies?

[ksfisher]

37 minutes ago, rongo said:

It is weird. It would be one thing if sacrament meeting didn't have a closing prayer, so the whole 2 hour block is "sandwiched" between the sacrament meeting OP, and the 2nd hour CP. But it's not. You have the first hour opened and closed with a prayer, and the 2nd hour closed with a prayer. Strange. 

This is the only one of the changes that I would do different if I ruled the world.  I do think having an opening prayer at the beginning of a class helps make a spiritual transition between moving from one room to another.

It's interesting to note that primary still has opening prayers.

Edited October 8, 2018 by ksfisher